Living Settlements: Praise, Critique, and Concerns

And that is always the best way to approach it. Even back in Age of Conan there would be bugs that would be fixed. Then months, maybe even years later POOF they would come back. Why? Who knows. :woman_shrugging: I can pretty much say that it is not anything done with intent, but yet the result is still the same, the ā€œold bugsā€ had a tendency to come back in time. Not all of them, but some of them (and usually the more annoying ones).

So without knowing who is working on the QA processes (doubtful it is the same people from back then, on that game, as it is currently on this one) and without knowing what the QA processes even are (and that is even with the assumption that they have not changed since 2008, which is not likely) we really only can comment on the END RESULTS of said processes. Which does tend to leave much to be desired.

:face_with_hand_over_mouth: If you were truly an ā€œidiotā€ you would not have realized what @CodeMage was saying and taken the time to reflect upon it. :wink:

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I know itā€™s just a self-deprecating joke, but I want to echo what @Oduda said: itā€™s rare enough to find someone on the forums who is willing to take a step back, reflect on what someone else said, and then change their mind.

So I want to thank you for being one of those rare people :smiley:

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a direct consequence of age of heroes changes?

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Modding is a pretty difficult thing to upkeep, especially with those mods that are more involved with new features and mechanics. Many modders start modding the game to make the experience better for themselves and their friends and are kind enough to share their creations with the public. After a while they build communities around said mod and continue to apply their craft out of their own desire to give back to the community.

Overtime they tend to focus more on their mods more and more and even stop playing the game entirely and work on their mods exclusively or have moved on. This is usually not a great sign that the modder is going to stay around. This isnā€™t meant as a critique or anything, just an observation.

Eventually they want to move on and do other things. Whether that be playing other games, modding other games, or making their own creations. Modding doesnā€™t pay bills, but game or software development does.

But thereā€™s a ton of different reasons why modders take off. Usually during major updates are the catalyst for moving on as it means a bit of work to get everything in line. Sometimes only a recompile is needed, and modders will be able to see that when the devkit is available early enough. But if not, they have to make a choice on whether to stop there or move on. Of course they can move on at anytime and leave it to fate, they are righteous to do so. They owe nothing to people who use their mods since everything is granted for free.

Sometimes game changes in ways they donā€™t agree with. I remember when there was significant changes to items and thralls a while back that required major reworks of most mods. The idea behind these changes was to change the foundational parts of those features so future updates would be easier on FC and easier on modders. But it required ripping the bandaid off first. There was no way around it. But if a modder was already close to burnout, or looking to move out of CE modding, then that would have been a big catalyst.

Update frequency can also wear out modders. Having to recook their mods several times in a short span of time can be an issue for some modders. This is something we more or less accept. Modders do not come before game breaking bugs, or future features.

On occasion a modder gets frustrated with FC on direction of the game or how much or little they have access in the devkit and its features. Or when the devkit updates are made available. Being as modding is an advertised feature this is something FC should improve on. Each update they either do well here, or not well. Age of War had some friction, but it looks like Age of Heroes is a bit more modder friendly as the devkit was released just a few days ago.

One of the nastier reasons modders burnout though and probably the most common, is how the community treats them. When you first start your modding career in CE. One of the first bits of advice that is always given is to turn off Steam comments. The reason being is the amount of vitriol and negativity players will display. They will complain about content in your mod. Content that isnā€™t in you mod. That you update too frequently. That you donā€™t update frequently enough. That your updates are at the wrong time of day for their server. That their are at the wrong day of the week for them. They will have bugs and expect you to fix them, even though its another mod that is outdated, incompatible, or abandoned. Basically you are blamed for every issue outside of your control. And then they will feel entitled to tell you what to do with your mod.

But its for this reason all major mod authors tend to have moderated discords where they can control the sort of comments and critiques. Because at the end of the day, they are doing this at their own pleasure, not the ones of the players. But even with those measures it can get tiring to deal with it on an everyday basis and the drama that comes with it as players make up theories, gossip, slander, and do the things players like to do when theyā€™re bored.

But to put it shortly. We always lose a few mods with every major update. Servers should never build their server communities around specific mods unless they themselves create and maintain the mods themselves. A modder can leave at any time for any reason. They may do so voluntarily and move on, or involuntarily because of outside reasons. But that is always the burden on the shoulders of any server owner. They should always have a contingency plan to vacate a mod at any given time. That is their responsibility, not a mod authorā€™s, and not on Funcom.

looking at what @Testerle said, it looks like it does have to do with some practices that funcom did, , like releasing patches without the the dev kit, and so on, (i went to his discord to read a bit) , he did not sound happy

here are the last couple of bits he said, being the last one on august 18 2024 ā€¦

i think its worth pasting this too :

image

way to go funcom! so it is somewhat related to this new age! and practices he has been experiencing?

i dont know how big fahsionist and better thralls are, since i only play officials, maybe someone can shed lights on that question?

It sounds to me like @Testerle has said all heā€™s willing to say in public and doesnā€™t want to go into more details. I donā€™t think itā€™s respectful to him to take his words and use them to speculate about stuff that we donā€™t know about and he wants to keep private.

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They were two of the longer running and most widely used mods, very popular (and very reliable as well).

Seeing this, I am sad to see @Testerle go, and will miss his mods, but I entirely support his decision and wish him only the best for the future. He (and any other modders) have every right to discontinue at any time for any reason. All I will say further on the subject is a heartfelt ā€˜Thank you :heart:ā€™ to @Testerle for the many years of added value his mods have provided me.

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No need to speculate, he said it what he said there, there is no disrespect quoting him , about something that was given to the public.

he said clearly he does not support funcom behaviour as the reason for his decision (and i undertsasnd it) , you can see his statements about the issues regarding how the game was being updated, (no dev kit etc). whats there to speculate? there is little run for that.

cheers!

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Iā€™m trying to caution people in general, not just you, because itā€™s a slippery slope.

You started with an obvious inference, that itā€™s ā€œsomewhat related to this new ageā€. Even though itā€™s not something he explicitly said, it seems logical. Someone else will take a step further and speculate something less obvious, and then someone else will go even further, and before you know it, this thread will have devolved into gossip about why one of the most popular modders in Conan Exiles modding community has decided to quit.

So please, I appeal to everyoneā€™s better nature, to either show respect by refraining from speculation or to go gossip in a different thread.

Thank you.

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i will always try to keep things within logic, and reason @CodeMage , the inference is as you said logical and if you read the whole thing withing context it seems indeed related.

what i cant tell if this is related to the new content or not, but it does seems to be related to some wrongfull practices, that he clearly express in his posts over his discord.

it is not my intention to create gossip, i came with facts, and as i would like to think with an educated guess,

I Swear, i was not aware of this until it was annoiced over @Wak4863 discord. and loosing him (related to what he was experiencing) is indeed something to be concerned about, specially knowing how important he was in the modding community, and based on what @DanQuixote said, quite important and popular mod.

i am really concerned aobut this new patch, for the reasons i have explained over and over again, and i still think we are heading to a disaster launch, i swear codemage i want to be wrong. i really do, i will be very happy to see my concerns never came to life. it will make me very happy! .

but we are all seeing the mess they have in testlive, and trust me , that is not as it will be at official servers (not even close). it is going to be worse there than it is on testlive. (it wont be an issue on single player but it might be on multiplyers, and for sure at officials.

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sorry to say this we on singleplayer allso have issues and the diffred between single player and multiplayer is we are not apart of rules and we not playing with other people that is the only diffrend we have, its funny to hear its sound like you try to compare a testlive server to a live server, when the test server is made for finding bugs and be fixed before they come out to the live servers

there! and yet that scenario that you said testlives is for, has not seen an update or bug fixing while content was in there, since Age of sorcery. they go public with the same issues that got reported over and over again and we have to wait a few weeks after it goes live to see a hotfix that takes care of a few things that was REPORTED DURING TESTLIVE and they never fixed when the content was there, not to mention that those hot fixes did not fix everything reported on testlive,ā€¦ (thats the story we have seen)

single player vs Multi player, yes it is VASTLY different!, for once your pc does not deal with long and large databases contaning everything and the footprints of years of users coming and going, with info of everyone has built, and done. your ā€œdatabaseā€ is only your assets, nothing more. there alone is a big difference between your SP and multiplayer.

Testlive does NOT reflect official servers and how they are , i could tell within the first 10 minutes i came to the testlive server by watching the landscapeā€¦

there are fundamental differences between a single player, and multiplayer, dont believe me? have others fill in with their opinions.

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Yes, TestLive is a different environment, which is precisely why the comparison is useful. As @Hansel pointed out, fewer people play on TestLive and theyā€™re less invested into playing there.

That difference between TestLive and official servers is going to be very important. Just like every single time before, the changes wonā€™t get properly stress-tested on TestLive, and weā€™ll see how they perform under stress only when they hit live.

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i know their is a diffrend between singplayer and multiplyaer but we still have the same update and game, and their can be many reasion to why we are playing on a singplerplayer, how people are building bases big and huge will allways be a bigger problem (exsample i have seing you base and your friends clan bases) they are huge and they are spread all over the server you are on ofcourse their is will problem when you are a couple of peopl their build so huge building people lagging on the server when they try to join becuse you all are spread out.

the game yes the databases, NO. no no and NO!. its like comparing an apple with a tbone.

not to mention the game works in a much different way in single player than it does in a server. (even a private dedicated one) which is persistent, your sp relies on a save game, so yes it is different.

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but now we got a couple of weeks we never have seing before and hansel is complaing so hard over a testserver we have had for not even a week, and he allready thinking the game is doomed with this patch.

i see his consern but we have a couple of weeks to test this out and we dont know whne in october they gonna give us the patch

oph we have been there before with other content, exactly where the complaint comes out.,

you have to understand how testlive has been used before. and those of us who do, and watching the current state of things over testlive, we can really tell this is going to be a disaster, unless they show up a different path, i am yet to see (there are however signs of better communications, kudos for that) but based on the QA , it does seem testlive will run exactly as it did before, and they will push the faulty content as you can see in testlive, if that happens (As it has happened several times before) i am telling you IT IS GOING TO BE A DISASTER, for official servers. probably it wont hit you as hard since the database stuff i have explained before.

do you undersatnd a couple of weeks to ā€œtestā€ this out, is NOTHING?
as it is right now is crude, everyone is having issues, check what has been reportedā€¦ and that is in a much forgiving server (testlive) what you see there will be much worse on officials , we have history to confirm this. facts, not my imagination ā€¦

only time will tell if it gonna be good or bad

still a test server is still a place where you find bugs and report them if you dont trust them fine its up to you, but you cannot revome for a fact the test server is their to discorver nugs and we can report them, how funcom duing it is up to them, we can just report them (fixes)

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never said otherwise. point is, if it is not going to be used as you said and i quote :

IF the testlive is not going to be used as you described above, without doubts, it will be a disaster, i encourage funcom to get the team of fixers, to get more involved , and to use the test server as it should be used. not as it has been used before.

yes, but based on experience as it is right now it does not look good, this is why it is a concern and not something else.

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So what? Do you have valid arguments against what he says? If not, why shouldnā€™t he be allowed to complain?

Heā€™s extrapolating from what he sees in TestLive and from Funcomā€™s track record from previous TestLive periods. In absence of new data, his concerns seem reasonable. Itā€™s true that we canā€™t know until we see, but the point of raising concerns is to try to do something before it becomes a problem.

To make things worse, there has been absolutely no indication from Funcom that theyā€™re willing to delay the release if one or more bugs prove to be critical.

Here, look at the official verbiage:

The focus is on preparing for post-launch updates and hotfixes, and no mention of pre-launch bugfixes.

Raising concerns is perfectly valid in this situation. Even if it doesnā€™t serve to make Funcom take action, it is useful to other players, so theyā€™ll know to prepare for the impact.

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