Living Settlements: Praise, Critique, and Concerns

@DeaconElie, I get the laugh, but honestly, it’s not always the developers just being lazy or not fixing things. A lot of times, it’s about deadlines—set by higher management, not the developers themselves. These are the folks with the bigger “swords” (or wallets) who push for content to be rolled out quickly for the sake of profits, often sacrificing time that could be spent on quality assurance or bug fixes.

Coding and game development are incredibly time-consuming processes, and it’s not as simple as flipping a switch to fix bugs or optimize new features. Adding to that stress is the constant barrage from players who are unhappy or demanding more content, and I get it—we want fresh things to keep us entertained—but this endless pressure adds up. Developers can’t win when they’re caught between the demands of higher-ups and the impatience of players.

Honestly, I’d love to see them take a year off from creating new content and focus entirely on fixing and polishing the game. But realistically, that’s not going to happen because the suits in charge care about their profits, and a year with no new content would send some players into panic mode. It’s a tough balance to strike, and the devs are caught in the middle of it.

It’s also not going to happen because that’s not how things work.

The people who fix bugs and the people who create new content overlap, but they aren’t the exact same set of people. So even if you dedicated as many people as you can within the team to bugfixing, you would still have people left who wouldn’t be working on that.

What do you do with them? Have them sit idle without work? Even if you were willing to pay for that, some of them would get frustrated and transfer to a different team or leave the company.

But even if all of the people on the team were able to work on bugfixes, there’s still the law of diminishing returns. As they say, you can’t have 9 women give birth to 1 baby in 1 month. Putting more people on a same task or project has diminishing returns, and there’s a cutoff point where adding more people doesn’t help – or even makes things worse.

So no, “stop producing new content until all the bugs are fixed” is not going to happen, ever.

But…

None of that excuses Funcom’s abysmal QA outcomes. Understand, I’m not criticizing their QA staff, because I don’t know them. I’m not criticizing their QA processes, because I don’t know them.

But I can see the outcomes, and those are below par even for the game development industry, an industry that is way behind the rest of software development already.

Whether it’s the devs or the suits is beside the point. The point is that the players keep getting shafted, and that either you keep making excuses or you voice your dissatisfaction. In my time on these forums, I’ve never condoned attacks on the devs themselves and I never will. But I’m done making excuses for the organization.

@DeaconElie is right in this case. Funcom’s track record is clear: there have been several instances of critical bugs being found and reported in TestLive by several players, and those bugs were allowed to be pushed to live with catastrophic consequences. That’s simply unacceptable.

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its official, hiveshadow does not know funcom track record …, i do recommend you check the bugs subforum. please!

yup. and it looks like… (not 100% sure) that this disaster is going to be on live servers without any bugfixing as USUAL!. then wait for 2 to 4 weeks for a hotfix to fix SOME of the problems, and the rest of the bugs will remain forever…

mark my words this age will make the last one look pretty… this is going to be a major disaster.

i have been playing on testlive, and oh man… this is really in bad shape.

This thread is really delivering and I love it.

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I have not been on Testlive… could you share what major bugs you’ve seen so far that are giving you the impression that this is going to be a major disaster?
(serious question from a curious, interested player)

So… you are suggesting that it sounds a little something like this over there?

Funcom Management:

“NO! No you can’t do that! No! Don’t fix anything! There’s no time! Don’t you do it! Don’t fix it! For the LOVE OF CROM, there’s NO TIME!!”

Because THAT is what it would have to sound like. If this team is not lazy or incompetent. We know for a FACT that their version control sucks. For at least half of the major issues they’ve ever had - they’ve had those same issues come unspooled AGAIN. I’m looking at you, foundation bug.

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No, that’s not what it would have to sound like. In fact, the only way it could sound like that would be if you replaced real-life professionals with characters from a particularly bad fanfic written by someone who doesn’t know how corporations work.

Here’s what it might actually sound like:

Translation from corpo-speak:

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But CodeMage. They haven’t fixed…anything. When was the last time you can recall them fixing a significant bug or issue? I cannot recall them fixing anything over the passed 12 months, at least.

I understand pressure. I understand deadlines. But I cannot imagine what their team must look like if they don’t ever fix any of the substantial bugs. If management is speaking as you are suggesting - then the only thing I could imagine to corrsepond with that is systems people just sitting on their hands, not lifting a finger ever. Or… the systems people have all been unceremoniously removed.

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Do thralls will be attracked to another player furnitures. Imagining a base that no claimed that area (50m) and a another players puts a chair or a bed in range will thralls go outside the base to use it? If im not mistaken a player can use some objects owned by others like horns, and chair, so the thralls will do the same? I see people abusing it to ambush each other thralls lol.

Okay, “they haven’t fixed anything” is provably false. Go read the patch notes. In fact, I’ll save you some time: go read these patch notes. The list of bugfixes in that one is particularly long.

Now, have they fixed anything “significant”? That depends on what you consider significant. For example, in the patch notes I linked to above, I’m pretty sure that the people affected by the Black Galleon crashes would have called that bug significant.

No offense, but I suspect that’s the literal truth: you probably can’t imagine their team, because you probably don’t know enough about what they do.

I’ve personally been in situations where I’m assigned to investigate a bug that has happened in production, for which we have logs and telemetry metrics, and there just wasn’t enough information to diagnose it. I would stare at the logs and the source code all day long, I would fiddle with the way the metrics are graphed to try to figure out some pattern, but there just wasn’t enough info. I would ask my colleagues to pair with me and see if they could come up with something, but there just wasn’t enough info.

Here are some truths that people don’t like to hear, but they’re true anyways:

  • Bugs can be extremely hard to diagnose.
  • Assigning more people to a bug won’t necessarily help solve it faster.
  • C++ is a nightmarishly complicated programming language.
  • Bugs aren’t prioritized solely by severity.
    • Sometimes low-hanging fruit will be prioritized because we know how to fix it and we still don’t have enough info to fix the high-severity bug.
    • Sometimes the fix for a bug will have to wait until we can rewrite a certain part of the system.

If you’ll forgive me for indulging in a little bit of that “grandpa’s telling war stories again” behavior, here’s a fun little thing that happened to me at a company I worked for more than a decade ago. I was told that one of our customers complained that a competitor’s product produced files that were on average 2x - 5x smaller than our files and that we had to beat that. I looked at the source code and figured out that a certain algorithm wasn’t detecting stuff we could have compressed. When I told that to my boss, he said I couldn’t touch that algorithm, because another team was working on that same section of code, developing a feature for a much bigger customer. So I had to figure out a different place in the code where we received the output of that algorithm and somehow detect that different bits out that output should have been just one bit with compression in it. (This is all very vague, but I don’t want to go into the gory details here.)

Long story short, this shіt is fuсking hard sometimes. So unless you have professional experience working on a large C++ codebase, you probably can’t even imagine what these guys are dealing with. And unless you have inside knowledge of how Conan Exiles dev team works and what Conan Exiles source code looks like, you don’t actually know what is causing these bugs to remain unfixed.

I’m not saying the end result doesn’t suck. I’m saying that the process of making this video game is complicated enough that you can’t know what exactly went wrong just by playing the game.

To put it another way, you don’t have to work in the movie industry to know that a movie sucked. But you do have to work for the studio (or have an inside scoop from someone) to know what led to the decisions that screwed up the movie.

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Petition to use comfy chairs as improvised thrall weaponry (the chair of discomfort), and introducing the new legendary: LA CHANCLA

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I actually followed your war story pretty well. And I suppose I get what you’re saying. Especially when sections of your project get locked out.

But they have fixed some of the issues that are currently plaguing the game previously. They’ve fixed them in the past. The fact that these regression bugs keep coming out is incredibly frustrating. I know that they have the tools and the people to fix some of these issues. Because they have successfully fixed the issues before.

I clicked your link, and re-read some of the things that they have fixed. YES. You are right. They have fixed some things. I will concede that point. You are totally right there.

But at the same time - we have been stuck with lingering issues due to their cursed UI pass that I have not seen anything positive about. There is one thing that is positive about the UI pass. And that’s Quickstack feature. That is an extremely useful feature. And for once, it works correctly. But the rest of the UI pass still has significant issues. And we’ve had to “workaround” those for the passed 5 months with no fixes. And no comms about any fixes on the horizon.

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Yeah, Funcom’s QA outcomes suck. I’ve been vocally criticizing them on that front for quite a while. In fact, if you scroll up a bit, you’ll find a post of mine in this same thread where I criticized them for it.

But bear in mind that I’m criticizing their QA outcomes, not their QA staff or their QA processes. I don’t know their staff and I don’t know their processes.

I know that my soup has a turd in it, but I don’t know who shіt in my soup :stuck_out_tongue:

Possibly. To be fair, it’s perfectly possible to fix a bug, then rework some code, then get the bug with the same symptoms but with a different cause. Something that looks like a regression might not be a regression. I’m not saying this is the case with Conan Exiles, or that it’s something that happens often. I’m just pointing out that it can happen, too.

Yeah, that sucks too. But the fact that there’s a workaround for those bugs is something that can lower the priority of the bug.

Like I said, that sucks. As a user, I hate it. Hell, sometimes I hate it as a dev, when there’s something I know I could fix but we had to pick something else because it was assigned a higher priority and that’s that.

So please understand that I’m not saying you shouldn’t complain about the bugs. I’m not trying to shut you up.

All I’m saying is leave people and their competence out of it. The organization, as a whole, is incompetent. But we don’t know enough about the people in it. And as someone who has worked for some dysfunctional and incompetent organizations before, I empathize very fiercely with the people in the same situation.

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@CodeMage Maybe it’s because I’m relatively new to the game, but these bugs feel fresh to me. I started playing around April 2022, just before Age of Sorcery dropped in September, so I haven’t had the same long-term frustrations. The main bugs I’ve dealt with are vanishing NPCs if I die or move too far away, floor foundations glitching, undead thralls not decaying, and the ‘Dogs of the Desert’ setting not working.

I missed out on older content like the crossbow, which I read was removed due to bugs. So maybe I’m defending something I haven’t fully experienced, but I get why veteran players are frustrated. I just haven’t been here long enough to feel the weight of those issues

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Okay. I am reading ya here. Thank you for calling out my garbage for what it was - garbage. I really value your perspective here. And for holding idiots like me in check. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

And someone please - toss out that dude’s shit soup already. :stuck_out_tongue:

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The reason the settlement system is becoming mandatory is because it’s the main feature in this upcoming Age. If they didn’t have something big to bring to the table, people would likely complain that the expansion felt underwhelming with no major new features.

Given the name of the age, I’d expect the heroes to be the main feature and focus of the expansion, not a settlement system.

It was known that the game would allow us to move thralls around and manage their appearance the same way as with fighter thralls in the future. That in itself would be a very nice and long awaited feature, and that’s where it should’ve ended, because right now, to me, the expansion feels exactly what you imply it’s not - underwhelming. None of the features are really fleshed-out, it’s like adding bits here and adding bits there, give a bit of everything, but the focus it should’ve had is not there, or maybe I just don’t see it.

The only other way I imagine it could’ve worked is if the focus was only on the settlement system, providing more robust solution that is controllable to at least some degree. Right now it’s so random, that it doesn’t make an impression of living thralls, but rather empty shells, following 3 basic rules, using a random furniture in range with no further logic.

I played around with it on public beta client and even if I provided the thrall with everything he needed to his room, he still roamed around, ending up in someone elses bed. So yeah, my interest in the feature dropped really quickly as that’s not improving my immersion, quiet the opposite.

I love the game, I always make time to watch the dev stream, excited to see what new things I might possibly see and experience in the future, only to feel disappointed lately. Despite it obviously being personal and subjective thing, from what I read on the forums, I’m not alone by far feeling that way.

The main part of the lively village update broke in the first few days and hasn’t worked since.

Some times all you need is a different perceptive to spot something you missed.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

On the beta I was sorting things, getting an idea of how the “needs” work. Pulled a chair and a couple of beds out from under thralls. Now my thralls, all of them, are static. If it is that easy to brake they should have found it in alpha.

When I alpha test i try to break the game, not really play it. Then reporting how I broke it.
When I’m beta testing I’m playing the game and reporting the bugs I fall over.

I quit when the dropped 2.2, 2.3 Can’t recall but it set my off bad enough to actually quit for a couple years and play BRs. Came back for 3.0 and am quite amused by bugs still in game.

Here is hoping it is once it hits live. I get frustrated to easily to even try it the beta server.

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Still some issues BUT for the last 3 days, since a particularly strange unscheduled server shut down on Test, I have not had the problems with unselected item dropping. And I did prior to this shut down. I’ve been using Name, Heaviest and Type without losing loot.

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I’ll try to sumirize some of the issues among others i might be forgetting. in no particular order

  1. Thralls vanishing , without anything on the logs
  2. Thralls living system stopped working, , the ai froze.
  3. Pathing issues with thralls…
  4. Total lack of player control
  5. Thralls getting stuck on animations , standing on tables, not using chairs etc. …
  6. Crafters selected as follower running back to base. Dissapearing and teleporting back to player , to run back again to base. And teleport back.
  7. More Inmersion breaking : Wrong animations for the área they are in. You can SEE a thral with cold , in the volcano witchh is extrnely hot.

Good part and it comes with some Bugs are the conpanions. It really adds a layer of engagement that was missing on the Game.

I don’t know if the fall thru pieces has been fixed. There is no mention on patch notes. So i Guess it’s not.

No one knows how thralls Will react to bazar ítems . Since no one is testing it. They should add all bazar ítems , run a wipe of such ítems when test is over.

The overall feeling is base does not feel more Alive than before. But it does feel deserted. They are achieving the total opposite of what they intended. So yeah it is a disaster , and funcom is jjust buying a Lot of unnecesary trouble.

Sadly.

They should roll back crafters part of this update. Use the new animations on the benches, they to move actions such as moving around to fighters , archer etc. But allow the lógic to work using the emote system , so we players have full control .

Add a bench so people could chance crafters clothing. Just as modder did with the mod. Works brillant , you can Even add warpaint to them

Focus on stories and conpanions.

Result: happy customers, continue on this path. It Will mostly bring frustration , and things Will get worse on public server.

Whoever thing beta server is a representation of the public servers it’s wrong. Far from it , vastly different on the database, on how much is being built and more important , how many thralls ate deployed on officials servers. That Will hace an inpact on this system.

Happy customers tends to Open they wallet more

Again you can achieve more adding some of this npc routines to deployed thralls , no messing around with thrall límits, allowing as it should be full control of the system to the players.

Best regards My friends

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im really looking forward to the settlement comming to the live pacht in october the same with compangiens so many times thanks for giving us the settlement system @den cannot wait to see what you guys in funcome brings to us in the future (mega hyped for the update) :smiley:

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