Pet nerf? Why even keep the pet system then?

NeoTheMatrix · 2022-12-02T18:11:16.691Z

yes and note of followers have any armor now… thanks to this and dies on rocknoose bosses…

MarcosC · 2022-12-02T18:56:21.445Z

If you capture very good npcs, have luck with the rolls, use the proper gear, sacrifice an entire town for elixirs (because sometimes rng sucks) and use the proper perks, you can still have fairly decent thralls. If you ask me, it’s more trouble than they are worth now. IF I capture one that I really, really, REALLY, never want to lose, I might go through all that trouble. Other than that, they are canon fodder. If they die, they die.

erjoh · 2022-12-02T18:57:05.590Z

Well since @stelagel poked me on this. I’ll add my two cents on the matter although I did speak about this before.

The dev team needs to figure out what direction they are going and let me explain.

Here are two conflicting facts.

They like the idea of max level is 60 and relatively quick to move up the levels. They have stated this repeatedly that they understand action on the player level usually starts at level 60 so they wanted to the journey to 60 to be relatively short.
They stated pets are early to mid game thralls.

With those two combined and the 5 to 6 hour window you gotta wait for the pet to come to age and hope its a greater version, this all doesn’t make sense. Statistically, you would have to fill a normal 5 slot pen to get a greater animal if you fed it the right food. That’s minimal 5 hours but the time to gather five babies. Many of the better pets are in areas you can’t get to easily till you level a bit anyways so all in all this is a very time consuming process that means you may get a day or two worth of pet love until you evolve past them and require a heartier thrall like a beserker or RHTS…both of which are fairly easy to get removed from a mob and truncheon out to a WoP anyways…a lot eaiser than collecting 5 frost wolves or 5 sabrekitties to statistically ensure a greater. Level time is the same and so you get a meh animal for the the same time as an end game fighter thrall…just doesn’t make sense on PVE or PVP. It’s RP yeah no doubt but RP can be on either server type.

Octavian · 2022-12-02T19:11:47.504Z

You did a far better job at explaining the situation than I initially did.

If we are going to nerf the couple of upper tier pets that kind of made sense to go thru the trouble of getting (as you point out at level 60), then why even have the pet system. Scrap it and save some space on my computer (the game is already the largest on my SSD).

erjoh · 2022-12-02T19:19:34.121Z

TY…and it’s a shame because I love the pets. The options they bring just for the looks and the style alone is awesome but the numbers don’t lie.

Tephra · 2022-12-02T20:05:21.709Z

Patch notes:

Testlive Update Age of Sorcery: Chapter 2 (2022.11.08) - Head Hunting, Pet rebalance and more!

Extensive rebalancing to animal companions:

This is the first in many steps to rebalance animal companions moving forward to make them a more viable choice.

Stream (timestamped):

Octavian · 2022-12-02T20:31:02.115Z

So they are giving us house cats but nerfing the cats we actually want? Yep seems like more “eye candy” stuff being added (house cats) that after the novelty wears off most folks will not care about it.

Actually their logic for the pet nerf is questionable. They are going to nerf pets so that MAYBE they can tune them up later? Whatever — I’ll just stick with the easy to get Treasure Seekers or zombies.

As is I felt like sabretooths were kind of “glass cannons” in that they hit extremely hard but not that difficult to kill (especially with poison gas arrows).

Taemien · 2022-12-02T21:22:48.756Z

Octavian:

Whatever — I’ll just stick with the easy to get Treasure Seekers or zombies.

Those are kinda getting nerfed too.

MarcosC · 2022-12-02T22:41:57.657Z

Zombies or RHTS?? Because RHTS got nerfed to a shadow of their former selves already! I concede you can still make them very strong, but it gives a lot more trouble to achieve it now… in a way it makes those you really want to keep alive, no matter what (and not in pvp), more special.
Zombies need a nerf just because. And I totally support them nerfing them to oblivion! (joking… just a little tweak)

JJDancer · 2022-12-02T23:01:51.052Z

Honestly, since 3.0, I just stick with Berserkers. I love my RHTS thralls, the variety in them makes them special, and to be honest, with full authority they can kill everything, but berserkers are easy to get ( one pops in the mounds every ten minutes ) and have the highest DPS with their multiplier.

MarcosC · 2022-12-02T23:46:28.557Z

You can get RHTS very easily from the Wine cellar, @JJDancer . Perhaps a little more difficult than the Berserker, but you have several spawns there (10, but not all will be fighters). I used to place at least one greater wheel outside the temple quarter entrance and capture them like there’s no tomorrow, one after the other util I filled the wheel (or wheels). I don’t know how their HP bonus per point is right now, but the difference between dmg multipliers between them and berserkers used to be negligible while their higher health more than made for it. Overall, they were superior. Now that doesn’t stand?

Xevyr · 2022-12-02T23:58:11.661Z

JJDancer:

and have the highest DPS with their multiplier.

Nope, their multiplier is only 0.002 higher than RHTS… do you really think that’s something to write home about? On the other hand they gain 0.4% damage from a strength point while RHTS gain 0.825, so even a flimsy RHTS with 15 STR gains more bonus damage than a Berserker with 30. On top of that the RHTS will have on average ~2k more HP… So they’re just better…
Despite that though any of the higher end thralls will do just fine as in most situations there is no need to “minmax” unless you’re OCD about it

Octavian · 2022-12-03T00:26:01.349Z

Taemien:

Octavian:

Whatever — I’ll just stick with the easy to get Treasure Seekers or zombies.

Those are kinda getting nerfed too.

Doh!

MarcosC · 2022-12-03T00:51:42.437Z

Xevyr:

you’re OCD about it

It’s both a blessing and a curse.

Cattibria · 2022-12-03T01:35:38.574Z

I did an unscientific test earlier. I got very lucky in raising my pets and have 5 greater kitties and one greater wolf. All of them have been fully leveled to 20.

For the test, I copied my game.db from my live game to my testlive game.

In both games, I admin teleported with both of my Sabertoothed Kitties to the same Alligator World Boss. Then without helping them to kill the beast, I kicked back and watched.

In both cases, they suffered the same amount of damage. In the testlive game, they also took twice as long to kill the World Boss.

LostBrythunian · 2022-12-03T01:56:42.191Z

This one agrees that pets need a rebalance.
This one disagrees that any of them need a nerf.

There are a couple that were almost worthwhile.
They are getting the ban hammer.

The idea that they are somehow easier to get is…
Curious?

Only greater pets are worth using.
This is entirely an RNGesus prayer roll.
Compare to 'Zerkers and Treasure Seekers, who have guaranteed spawns.
Pets require their own taming station, that doesn’t even work for Horses. And special food for a better chance at a decent one. By the way, gratitude for the smaller one.
Combat thralls use the same taskmaster on the wheel and gruel that crafting thralls do and are subdued using the same tools.
Pets only scale with level. As opposed to Thralls who both level and can be equipped with gear for specific circumstances or just to enhance survival. Thralls also can be equipped with Truncheons for getting more thralls. Pets are only (rarely) good at killing.

Because pets are pure Rng unitaskers, they should be mighty. Not all at fully Vault kitted 'Zerker level. But definitely competitive within their particular niche.

But no.
It has been decided that we must be slavers rather than beast masters if we want to have utile followers.

As matters stand there isn’t really practical incentive to even try for these combat critters other than in a specific extremely brief level range.

Perhaps if pets had a follower limit like Zombies rather than eating a full thrall slot it would be better

Xevyr · 2022-12-03T02:13:51.830Z

I will just refer this thread as well to my opinion on the subject that I already voiced in the testlive discussion

Testlive Update Age of Sorcery Chapter 2 - Discussion Megathread Public Beta Client

I agree, I am trying not to be too harsh… but when it comes to certain changes I’m getting the impression that the lead designer isn’t aware of their own game - OR is playing on such future internal builds that it puts the live version completely out of context. Now I’d like to think that’s not the case obviously, I’m exaggerating here… but still… To me this looks simply like taking instructions blindly from the PvP crowd and I’m not blaming them btw, I’m blaming Funcom for not weighing the ch…

LostBrythunian · 2022-12-03T02:21:08.550Z

That is the problem with knowing the future.
It is very easy to forget that everyone else is living in the present.

Xevyr · 2022-12-03T02:24:11.616Z

Yup, I’m pretty sure the phenomenon is way more common than most people think. Internal builds quite often show no resemblance to the current game we have so they might not even be aware of bugs being live in their proper context and just how urgent they are etc. since they corrected and forgotten about those ages ago and “their” version doesn’t have it anymore

Who knows… Dennis might be playing with Sabretooths that are actually overpowered and needed a nerf

JJDancer · 2022-12-03T04:14:12.929Z

Xevyr:

On top of that the RHTS will have on average ~2k more HP

The RHTS fighter starts with 3030 health and the Berserker starts with 2884 health. Not sure where you are getting this 2k + fantasy, unless you just failed math in grade school.

Also, the RHTS start with zero strength vs the Berserker +15.

MarcosC:

You can get RHTS very easily from the Wine cellar

I know where they are, how to get them, been doing it for years now, thanks.
I will stick with my Berserkers.