Thrall vs pets, i just dont get it

So i am not really understanding the clear difference in thralls and pets. I am a war party build so I run two thralls at all times. Up to this point it has been either two level 20 treasure hunter relic seekers or one seeker with Lian. Now granted these guys are decked out with legion/slaver gear and a tenderizer.

Yesterday I decided to try some pets instead of thralls so I ended up “eventually” taming two greater lions just to see how it goes. First thing I noticed was the HP. The treasure hunters started with around 3k at level 0, lions around 700. I have a base right out side shattered springs so usually as soon as I get a new treasure hunter i can run the shattered springs for the exp loop killing all the rocknoses and not have a problem. Definately cannot do that with the lions, had to baby them to about level 7 or so as they needed the extra HP.

As it stands right now the lions have around 3200 hp at level 12, whereas the treasure hunters are sitting a little over 6k at level 20, pretty close I will have to see when the lions hit 20. Right now i can take the treasure hunters into a dungeon, put them on attack all, largest attack area and let them go nuts as i follow behind picking up loot, they smash everything in their wake.

So i guess my question is why would anyone choose a pet over a thrall as the only advantage I can see with the lion right now is the open spaces to carry stuff. 8 slots vs the 4 or 5 the thralls have. Maybe looks? But thats about the only advantage i can see. I will most likely level the lions to 20 just to have them for my resource runs.


Role playing mainly?
It used to be that you could run with 2 animals, they would push people to the floor constantly and bleed them. They were powerful as far as I know.
Nowadays, human Thrall with armor and weapon will be a better option :love_you_gesture:t3:.
Forgot to mention! Early game an easy to grab and tame fawn would help you carry many things!


Pets are for midgame, the best T4 fighter thralls are endgame stuff.

Since almost every possible companion got nerfed for half of their HP and got also nerfed in attributes, pets became even more useless. You can have them “just because”, or use them as supportive aspect in base defense (for example greater hyenas to cripple enemies and fighter or archer thralls to finish the deed). Feline and canine was nerfed the most, the bigger companions as gorillas were pumped up, so the bigger pet deals mor dmg and is more tough.

Some of them are also good as a carrier companions (elephants, camels with 30 spots, gazelles with 20…) When you go hardfarming, you take two camels with you + horse, which gives you 70 spots of storage for resources, if you don’t want to be overencumbered too soon.

To me pets are mostly just decorative stuff, have maybe 10 of them, but the other 55 thralls are lvl 20 berserkers in redeemed armor. :smiley:


I had a recent thread on the same topic i.e. by nerfing the only semi-useful fighting pets left (i.e. Greater Sabretooths) why even have such a complex pet system? Other than carrying cargo doesn’t seem like much use for them and thus an opportunity to save some computer space if removed or simplified. You mention base defense but without a way to protect from poison gas, no point (I’ve killed armies of pets over the years with poison gas arrows…).

Now it was pointed out to me that the devs said that by nerfing the felines, it would allow them to rebalance them at some point in the future. At the same time these are the same devs who said we’d have a new offline protection system and server transfers would be a thing again… Sorry couldn’t resist :slight_smile:


For me, pets are mainly a RP thing, I also only keep Greater pets. You can definitely get lucky and level some up to be quite strong and tough, but the only pet I’d take out to kill stuff with is the Greater Sabertooth (I never do that, but it’s strong enough). Even with the nerf, it still kills a Rotbranch faster than any of my lvl 20 purge thralls, and it’s only lvl 12 currently.


That boss is an exception, like the Rockslide. Your pet is faster because it doesn’t spend its time face down on the floor, like humanoids.


That’s why I think pets still have the potential to carve out their own niche in the follower system. As long as the rebalance, once completed, gives them more survivability, they’ll have their uses in situations where knockdown/-back is an issue.

Although it’s true FC originally introduced them as early- and mid-game followers, I think they’ve recognized that the game has evolved since then and that pets need to as well. Naive though it may be, just gotta keep the faith.


As matters stand, pets are purely decorative.
Early and mid game they are a sink for feat points and resources, and then a sink for time while praying to RNGesus that you get a greater version out of the pen.

Late game they are utterly irrelevant.
This one would also say mid game as well. With an easy guaranteed spawn for Lian, once you can clear his tiny camp, a pet will never be worth the time again.

At this exact moment, with the head hunt event on… They will never be useful. Harvest a few easy sorcerors and you can purchase a Tier 4 combatant and a Legendary weapon for them to use.

This is what is sometimes called a Trap Option.
An opportunity to waste resources on something largely useless.


Remember, 70% of the items in this game are just decorative.
That include some high-end fancy-looking end-game stuff like Fuel Efficient Furnace(?), Plant-based Tannery(??), Champion Armorer’s Bench(??!), Crom Sword(!!!), and of course - most Pets.

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I don’t know…I pulled two legion warriors out of cold storage and they were very much capable as any RHTS and the trio in a corrupted authority take down tortured king very quickly but these are no longer accessible except for those that stocked up.

Pets require lots of space to incubate. The one-slot pen helps.

Pets got nerfed so hard and I hate it.

Pets are harder to find
You have to find one, and while they spawn consistently, they are still fairly rare compared to the ubiquitous thralls.

Pets are harder to “craft”
Even with shadebloom (which requires you to do a dungeon, of all things), you only get 25-30% chance of getting a Greater pet, in most cases.
Normal pets are completely worthless aside form cannon fodder or dung producers.

Pets cannot use any equipment
That means their stats are final. Most Greater pets’ armor will sit between a normal heavy armor set and an epic heavy armor set, and it can’t go any higher. Their hp won’t go any higher either since they get no stat boosts from equipment. Neither will their damage, but damage is the only thing they have that’s good (or at least decent).

For these reasons, it feels like pets should be on par with thralls A greater pet at lvl 20 should compare with a T4 thrall in epics at level 20. Weaker, but comparable.

Instead, Funcom is trying to sell us pet skins with one hand, and making pet increasingly useless with the other…

Funcom, come on.
You guys seem to enjoy your work and your game, from what I’ve seen in dev streams, but you sure make some weird decisions.

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Normalization is what will fix the problems with Thralls and Pets, and to some extent mounts as well. 3.0 kinda condensed the stats a bit. On one hand this had some downside such as losing Survival (losing debuff duration reduction) and an oversight of Grit becoming a stat and existing followers having Zero armor bonuses. But the benefit is we got closer to stats mattering. Right now a perk that gives +3 Strength to a Pet or Thrall using a mace is a substantial thing. Before it was ‘meh’.

I’m going to talk about Thralls first. These have the most disparity and this must be rectified first otherwise if you balance pets around the strongest thralls, pets will be overpowered, and if you balance them around the average thralls, they will be underpowered.

Right now there is a big problem with Thralls. Specifically their Tiers and their Tribes (Exiles, Relic Hunters, Black Hand, etc). For example, finding as T4 Darfari Fighter or Archer is extremely rare compared to Heirs of the North, Forgotten Tribe, and Relic Hunters. Ironically when you do find one of the lower Tribes’ T4 fighters or archers, they are MUCH weaker than their higher but more common tribe counter parts.

That needs to be fixed. All thralls of the same tier no matter what Tribe they come from needs the same base stats. This means same Strength, same Agility, same Vitality, and same Grit. Maybe T1 has no bonus, T2 has +5 to all, T3 and T4 has +10 to all. Why does T3 and T4 have the same? I’ll get to that. Each Tier would have the same base Health as well. T1 has 500, T2 has 750, and T3/4 has 1000. Again I’ll go into the difference between T3 and T4 in a bit.

Does this make all thralls the same? Nope. We’re going to have the Tribe add another bonus on top. So Cimmerians might have a +5 Vitality, Nordheimers have +5 Strength, Votaries of Skelos +5 Grit, and some may have +3 to two attributes, or +2 to all. Or some variation, could be more or less than I am suggesting. But these stats would be added on top of the base to give those thralls a bit of flavor.

Next we need to fix weapon combos. Right now there is a basic Combo pool and an advanced one. I forget which Tiers and tribes get which. But understand that basic combo pool is basically two attacks. 2 Lights, 2 Heavies, Heavy then Light, and Light then Heavy. They will never do a third or fourth attack. Where as the advanced combo pool has 2, 3, and 4 attack combos they can choose from randomly. I would get rid of the basic combo table for thralls (keep it for wild NPCs if needed). I would also add in combos for Shortsword, Katana, and other unique weapons (this is why some weapons just don’t work). Maybe even have logic that will avoid throwing a javelin or throwing axe if there is only one of the equipped item left. This way Javelin and Shield, and throwing axe offhand is viable for thralls.

Archers need to attack more often with Bows. That is what will make them different than fighters. They attack much faster than they do now with bows, but not as quickly (or often) with melee. Or do not used advanced combos in melee as much as a Fighter will.

Now about the T3 and T4 thalls. Right now we have perks that are worth it. What I would do to make T3 and T4 thralls different is like some of the special pets (Brutus, Aries, and etc), T4 thralls would get unique perks based on who they are. Dalansia Snowhunter and Liam for example would have Identical base attributes, identical starting HP, but their attribute bonus from Tribe would be different and their unique perks would be different. Edging them over basic T3.

What all this would do is make getting even T1 and T2 thralls worth having. Except we need to go a bit further.

Attributes across the board need to increase stats in the same way. If you have a Votary of Skelos fighter with 25 Strength, they should with the exact same equipment, do the same damage as a Exile Fighter with 25 Strength. The only difference should be the base attributes being increased by the tribe bonuses.

Of course the food bonuses for leveling needs to be redone as well. I’d like to see more food types contribute. With higher quality foods giving bigger percentage chances. Something off the campfire may be able to give 14% right now. But other more complex foods may give bonuses over 30% or even 40% or even +10-15% to 2-3 attributes. This will give cooking a far better role as well.

Finally, stats on armor such as +Follower Damage, +Stamina, and +Carrying Capacity needs to do something for thralls. Carrying Capacity is probably easy, maybe each +5 gives an extra inventory slot. Stamina may decrease time between attacks, and maybe Follower damage increases some of the damage the player does (maybe not by the full listed amount). Also plus health may need to be buffed when given to thralls.

This all would fix thralls pretty well. It would give players a wide variety in how to use them. But more importantly it would give pets something to base them around.

Pets cannot be equipped with items. And I don’t want them to. We can do something different. Like thralls these should be normalized. And I would do it by type. Felines (Tigers, Lions, Leopards, and Canines (Dogs, Wolves, and Hyenas), and so forth all have the same base stats based on Tier (will get into that in a bit) and modified by type (Feline, Canine, etc).

The type would determine their role. Something like canines would be well rounded, felines have high damage, elephants/rhinos have higher health, rocknoses and other armored stuff has more grit. But you would choose the type of pet for the situation you want to use them for. If they need to tank damage, you get one with higher grit values (thus higher armor).

Like thralls their attributes would be standardized across the board. 20 Strength on a Tiger means they do around the same damage as a Wolf with 20 Strength. Vitality gives the same health, Grit gives the same Armor. Its just when something is tanky it has really high Vitality and Grit attributes. Since pets cannot equip items, their attributes can go much higher than thralls to compensate.

The idea is the tankiest pet might be able to tank a tad better than the best armored thrall with maxed out Grit. And the reason for this is that pet is specialized. Thralls even when specialized in their attributes can still be adjusted by equipment, pets cannot.

How I would adjust pets into tiers is effectively balance regular pets to be equivalent to T2 thralls. Greater pets to T3. And unique pets to T4. I would also make unique versions of every type to compensate. Like T4 thralls suggested above and other special pets already in the game, their perks are predetermined and edge them over T3/Greater Pets.

Obtaining Greater and Special pets would be different. Greater Pet young can uncommonly be found, and when raised are guaranteed to be Greater versions. You can still use regular young and feed them special food to have a chance to upgrade, and you would be able to do that to greater versions too in order to make them special. Special young would require special food to even raise them, like the special dogs already are.

Combo attacks would need a good look over to ensure DPS values are similar across classes of pets with similar strength values. Right now many pets have long pauses between attacks. That needs to be adjusted and can be now after pet and NPC weapons were divorced in the last patch.

And like thralls, more food options to level up attributes to give players more control how their pets grow over time.

All this done would give players a system that would work rather well. Pets would be for specialized tasks, thralls for versatility with the option of specialization. And players wouldn’t feel penalized for choosing a thrall or pet that looks cool simply because it wasn’t the best meta.

Having the best pet or thrall would depend on the player themselves raising and training them. Not RNG or Location. Player effort and skill over RNG and happenstance.


As much as I’d love to see thralls of all tribes and tiers be useful, I don’t think making them all the same would be a good solution.

First of all, newbie players running into their first Exile camp along Noob River would be slaughtered if Exiles had Cimmerian-equivalent stats and health. Imagine going against three 700-hitpoint enemies with a freshly made stone sword and 0 points in Strength. Now imagine doing that as someone without hundreds of hours of experience in the game.

Second, if you could get the best thralls at Noob River, what would be the incentive to go hunt for thralls any further north?

All “tribes” (except maybe Lemurians and Votaries) have guaranteed T4 spawns on the Exiled Lands map, so rarity isn’t such a big deal. Maybe we’ve just been spoiled by the ease we can capture a Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker or several.

I’d rather like to see a way to train wimpier thralls to become stronger using increasingly expensive materials. That way you wouldn’t catch the best thrall at Noob River, but you could catch a thrall at Noob River and over a longer period of time, raise him/her to become a top-tier thrall. You’d still need to play to gather the materials, special foods, maybe even sorcery-related stuff, to turn PewDiePie into John Rambo.


You made a good point, @Kapoteeni .However, a npc and a thrall can have different stats. Noobs would have to deal with their stats in the wild, while getting their thrall stats only after capture. People don’t stay noobs for long. I think the trade off could be worth it. Hell will freeze before they do it your way. I absolutely love it, but it’s much more work to put in place, I reckon.
I don’t think Funcom will tweak thralls any time soon.
If they do, they should buff t4s a little bit, but the ideas @Taemien suggested are excellent, in my opinion. They also make more sense than what we currently have in place and would introduce a very welcome diversity in end game thralls. And it can be done just by fiddling with values. Nothing really dificult needs to be done. As it stands, especially after the nerf, people only get RHTS and zerkers. That’s it. It’s boring.

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Simply divorce the two entities like they already have. For example, how many HP does a Camel or Horse have in the wild? Not the foal. The actual non-stabled NPC horse? They pretty much don’t.

Let’s look at another. When you tame an Elephant, does it have anywhere near the Armor or Health as the wild one? It does not.

Why is this a problem? In Exiled Lands like you said, Relic Hunter Treasure Seekers are already right there within a bow shot of the newbie river. I’ve personally tamed them with a Lesser Wheel of Pain prior to level 30. On Siptah its even more ambiguous.

I don’t see any reason to not simply embrace the idea of getting thralls with out much hassle. And if they need to be a challenge, then sure… a 700+ HP NPC will chase away the newbies who will go get a nice crocodile or hyena instead.

If you play with Purges on, you’re going to need to get more than one. That’s going to necessitate leveling up and getting more wheels. Besides… if we’re talking 1x exp rate. Its 3-4 days tops for someone to hit 50-60. That’s how long it took me at 0.5X rate with a new character I rolled a week ago. I assume it takes someone twice as long who may not have an idea of what they’re doing.

The tribes and how they’re setup is a legacy system from the Early Access days of 2017. Its time they are cleaned up. Let’s be honest with ourselves here. There’s no challenging sections of the map. Just a few thralls that take 2-3 more hits with a truncheon just because they live in a green or black area of the map.

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While this one agrees on almost all points (would allow more base stat variance based on affiliation perhaps but that’s a long side bar), especially the loathing for the hidden modifiers and fluctuating multipliers, finding Tier 4 Fighters for the lowest of factions is easy. Exiles have at least three guaranteed named thrall spawn locations, Cannibals have the Ritualist and Thugra as fixed spawns and there are three places where Cannibal Brutes are very common even if not guaranteed. Likewise Pirates have Sully and Tarman, as well as several places that can be Hekkr or Gall o Spear. Then there are the at least three locations with a wandering Tier 4 in the Jungle.
Lemurians are the faction that seems to have the least chance of finding a named character, and even then, they are far less useful than their stats would indicate.

One thing that you mentioned that is especially excellent is the idea of named thralls having their own specific perks from leveling. Much like the playful pups in Siptah. This would be a great way to make them distinct from the nameless Tier 4s.
We have generic tier 4s for several factions.
Berzerkers for Cimmerians (and an unimplemented Berzerkers for the Nords).
Treasure Seekers for the Relic Hunters.
Claws of Jhebbal Sag for the Dogs.
Captains for the Pirates (altho they seem to only have a single spawn point).
Brutes for the Cannibals.
Also, in addition to making them distinct from the nameless ones, it could make them distinct from each other. Suddenly Lian and Janos have a difference other than male pattern baldness.

TLDR; Very premium idea.


No, to those of us who have been around since the beginning, there are no challenging areas. But it makes sense for new players to have progressive difficulty (even though there are some endgame content areas sprinkled in the south) the further they get from the starting area. It’s kinda expected behavior of any game to become harder, the further you advance. And the further you get, the better resources become available. Star metal does not fall around Noob River for design reasons.

And our characters level up a lot faster than the players. Hitting level 60 happens quickly enough even if you’re totally clueless, but if you’re playing for the first time and wearing that shiny Level 50 non-epic armor and a legendary weapon, and you go poke that slightly different-looking elephant at the savannah, you’re in for a surprise from which level 60 stats won’t save you. It’s that knowledge and experience that lets people like that kill the house-sized spider with stone daggers without any stat points. To you and me, progressive difficulty is no longer necessary, but we didn’t get the player skills we have in three to four days.

Siptah is a different matter. That map is not meant as an introduction to the game, unlike Exiled Lands. It has a less linear progression, with endgame resources sprinkled all across the map. And that’s fine.

I think its more of a difference in confidence than skill or experience. Case in point, when I introduced this game to a friend of mine, he was able to thrall and destroy world bosses prior to level 40 with steel quality equipment. In under a week he was able to solo the Leviathan bosses in the Savage Wild map, only struggling with the Rotbranch-like boss (its like a normal Rotbranch, just more HP, more damage, and puts flowers on the ground that explode into gas when you get near them). Course when I mean struggling I mean it only took more than a single attempt to down it.

But then again, I don’t really consider myself great at the game myself. I don’t exactly have the reflexes I used to have when I was younger. But far more stubborn. And being aggressive in Conan has always yielded better results than passivity.

So here’s exactly where the trap is, playing war party is no good for pets. It’s best, if you want to train pets to choose well trained. A plus 20 to all stats would make your pet really strong and you wouldn’t have to babysit all the time! War party is a bit risky for taming pets because you cannot gear them!

But let’s take it from the beginning shall we?

You start the game, you know nothing of it, you even have troubles to start the damn fire and cook something. When finally you managed to die from multiple reasons in the starting river but you took the lesson and now you know how to fix a box to call it home, you see that the environment around you is really hostile but still, look a baby hyena, hey can I grab it (?), oh s… t yes i can, now what do i do with it? Hey look i can fix an animal pen, so why not let’s fix one…

And your first follower, is a hyena, or a shellback, or a crocodile, or a gazelle, but surely not a thrall…
Why? Because they are harmless babies, not hostile, walking careless on the map and if you won’t kill their mama they don’t care for your presence and this makes them “easy to gain”.

There for @den said to the livestream that pets are easy to gain (because they are) so they cannot be as strong as thralls.

So pets are there for multiple reasons in endgame and even later game, but not to equal thralls in no way!
Do not forget how handy they were the first days of your gaming journey and always respect their existence and role in the game! Yet do not forget either that they are animals and they cannot be more useful than a thrall in fights.