realistically we shouldnt be able to carry silly amounts on our characters In the first place, I shouldnt be able to carry 20k stone on my character or on a thrall as it seems bit excessive
Well first thing most of those things are glitches and bugs not game mechanics, undermeshing is a cheat that needs to be taken out by funcom, which should have been fixed months ago. 100% Arrow Pen is a Glitch which I understand is fixed but then again Funcom again should have removed all the stacks everyone hid in their boxes for later use instead of leaving it so some have them some do not so making it again a cheat. So in my mind should not even have been in game to begin with.
When I say if you do not like , do not use it I mean true things in game that were put in by Funcom for us to use the others above just cheats and hacks people use to cheese way though game and think its not cheating themselves or others.
Far as I can tell most just want it their way and do not care that others use as they do not use it or want perks to stay the same. I think you did frame it correct but as so many posts on this forums it seems to turn in to I want you do not need or I need you do not want type of comments.
I look at the Encumbrance perk as personal, I will be honest never used it, I farm from day I get off the cross and burn and save until I am ready to build anything more then a little place to hang hat then when I have enough gathered by level 30 or 40 I build a real base by then I have farmed so much I do not need to worry but that is me, I do not think in any way that if I do not use it should be gone, how you use your perks in your game is your business but I think that removing something from game you have made your community rely on is bad business and spits your community. So Alex does not like it fine, that is his business, I have no right to tell him that is wrong but nor do I have a right to tell others who use it how to play their game. So if its gone will not matter to me but I know it will matter to many others. That is why I say let people play the game the way they want within being fair to others and not Cheating.
Realistically, you couldnt wear heavy armor, carry a sword, and 50 roasted haunches. Realism left a long time ago.
1 Like
I apologize if you received my comments as attacks. I never meant it to be that way.
The conversation however was circling around players that build in a way that the 5th perk was appealing, vs. those that didn’t and view it as a negative for whatever reason.
Due to this, when you stated you were doing your exercise, it appeared to be missing the mark as it was interpreted as you attempting to experience and gain a perspective from this side of the discussion.
I certainly didn’t mean to ‘attack’, but simply clarify that your end goal wouldn’t be met by what you were attempting.
That said, you clarified you were just doing it as a personal experiment in reflection to how you think game play should be directed at and my statement about the futility of the excise is moot.
That stated, I am not sure what you are trying to prove to yourself, or figure out with your exercise, or how it is connected to this discussion, but you do as you want as long as no effort is made in trying to use what ever personal findings you have as an argument in this thread. It just doesn’t have any baring.
Sorry if I incited anything. I have never meant any ill will or intent.
Nope, the Mandibles of Atlach-Nacha had 100% armor penetration. It might be an oversight or a really bad game design decision, but definitely not a glitch.
Like, for example, Sword of Crom. That’s another one of those things that arguably shouldn’t have been added to the game at all. The key word being “arguably”. If it’s a glitch or a bug or an exploit, it’s very easy for everyone to agree it shouldn’t be there. Things like SoC or the 5th enc perk are a bit harder to argue about than that 
Yeah, except the example you actually quoted is the one that definitely isn’t a glitch, a hack or an exploit. There are people calling for nerfs of Yog’s Touch, of the damage bonuses granted by the mounts, and of the XP multiplier on PVP servers, to name a few things people perceive as unfair or unbalanced
I understand your argument, but as long as there’s a significant impact in game balance, “just don’t use it” won’t work 
I am with you there.
I guess more accurately stated from my understanding, the only problems the perk causes that I consider to be a game negative (vs. a personal negative such as “i don’t like it!” or “It just feels out of place!”) are the PvP aspects of quick attacking and quick retreat with massive inventory.
I see the rest of the concerns raised as largely just personal opinions of how’d that individual would like the game designed. Not so much as a detrimental or a problem to the game. This isn’t meant to be dismissive. However, there is a clear difference between personal desires vs. something that actually negatively effects the game.
But yah, it sounds like for the most part, some people just feel ‘off’ about the perk. I would say that isn’t really a valid enough reason to touch the perk (or more preferably, designed around to resolve the real issues at hand). The PvP effects of the perk I do credit, I just hope there can be actually a solution that doesn’t have to be for one player base vs. another.
i WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH, BUT HERE IT GOES…
for simplists math
IF 3 people take farm simultaneously for 8 hours (24 ttl hours) and make 900 bombs, then 1 person can make 1/3rd that. so 300. that is 600 more bombs (and tbh probably not that far off). now if without the perk it reduces farming due to constantly returning to base to 20% of number the 3 man clan makes 180 bombs, and the solo player makes 60, 120 bombs difference. overcoming 120 bomb difference in PVP is not that hard, as if you can get on e good kill, you may steal 60 bombs and now you have equal bombs. the perk would effect the bomber enc build as well. I know there are other factors, but all things equal it is a reduction in material difference that makes it achievable for solos and small clans to fight with larger ones. Same for building, if 3 people in one night can build a 20x20x 3 high base with 5 enc, a solo can only build a 20x20x1 base. if no enc 5 and more “trips” while farming, then it becomes @ 6x6x3 for 3 man clna, and a 6x6x1. Again, all things equal. Plus, everything would be more valuable (supply demand), and retain that value longer because it would be harder to build back up stashes in a hurry.
this further unbalances the game as currently the 5th perk is balanced with the other perks.
Adminning enc to trivial amounts distorts the game play in the fact you can then complete negate encumbrance and spend all your points in the different trees, still being able to make use of encumbrance.
This is incorrectly labled as a simple server option as its not like anything replaces the encumbrance tree, its still there to put points in, just it would serve no purpose.
Realistically, hardly anything in this game would pan out in reality. So realistically, reality doesn’t really have a place as a counter argument in this conversation.
This game breaks reality left and right. What trumps this is whats fun and enjoyable to partake in in a game so we keep coming back to play it, and pay for DLC.
Given the last three wipes of my base was by someone with the perk, there is a pattern/consensus here that can’t be ignored. The user’s excuse is he or she is “bored”, when I asked if they want me off the server.
I thought there was a suggestion for time limits on when you can change those perks, like how often the beastile memory can be used.
So… I didn’t vote, as there is no impartial win in this thread. People get bored a lot.
And as with thrall caps, you give me as a server renter the ability to disable it and enable it, I have no beef with that (other than limiting carry capacity doesnt restrict build size at all, it merely makes it take longer).
I would argue the trade off of what we find fun in the game for slightly better preformance (which through all Funcom’s ‘fat trimming’ has never once been impactful). The removal of this perk for improvement in performance (much like the thrall limit which we haven’t experienced yet) may be a much larger net negative then positive.
Anything is possible at this point and Funcom will follow the path that sells.
I hope that path doesn’t include what I view as short sighted decisions that miss their mark.
1 Like
I don’t disagree with you necessarily on this.
But, as even Alex doesn’t like the perk, however it ended up getting included anyhow appears to me as though Funcom knew they had to address people that wanted to build and farm and angle one of the stat lines at this play style, and this was the best they could come up with at the time.
I honestly don’t think this was a case of bad decision, if the player base never experienced it they wouldn’t have a problem.
I think the game would not have sold as well and appealed to as many people without this perk included. Anecdotal, i know, but in my specific case, I would have dropped this game close to release or still in early access had farming and building not been facilitated as they did.
That all stated, while the current perk may have not been the best implementation, I do think Funcom (and certainly plenty of players) think its needed.
I’d also venture, though obviously without evidence, that Funcom has yet to come up with a better solution and in part, this is partially due to it now being a staple of the game (trickier to now remove and replace then ever). At this point, to me, it makes sense to cut the losses on its inclusion as its removal would be far more ugly and destructive.
I haven’t seen any better ideas then the current iteration presented at any point either. Maybe its just a necessary evil for those that don’t like it?
You could combat all this theorizing with simple stating the game shouldn’t be a base builder but a survival game. However, I wouldn’t play this game for survival aspects. I play it specifically for the fun of building. Does it make sense or is it a wise choice to alienate the large number of players that play like me and push us away from the game and buying further DLC simply because the current perk isn’t the most imaginative/or clean option for the game to facilitate those that play this game for building?
This is the main issue above all else, and not to discredit Funcom, but its this very point that I don’t believe a enc perk removal would ever be viable. I understand that optimization is the current kick at Funcom, however the removal of the perk, and potentially even messier attempt at replacing it with something else thats more convoluted to fill that hole, I don’t think will fit into the game at any time in the near future, if ever at all.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Funcom would ever remove this perk without addressing the multitude of players that are concerned about it. And not to bag on Funcom, but more the game being on an old engine, on crappy g-portal servers, I don’t think the game will ever get to that state.
This also fits into the similar problem that you brought up in building big and Funcom trying to curb that behavior.
Its a catch 22. Sure, they could cap how people build, however, doing so will very likely lose them the crowd of players that play the game to build. Would that really be worth losing the customer base? I can’t say I know Funcom’s planning, but logically, I would reason ‘no’.
You can’t make a game a specific experience while at the same time trying to cater to many different play styles.
The game could have come out the gate aimed at a really specific experience and had it been that way from the start, none would be the wiser. However, Funcom didn’t release a survival game specifically designed for people that want to build small/medium bases with the only challenge being a purge.
Funcom released a sandbox survival game where survival stops being a thing around 30 - 40 with the rest of the time (pretty much for both pvp and pve) for the players themselves to be creative and make their own fun.
Almost two years after release is far to long of a time to retroactively try to change the game away from what a large portion of the player base bought the game specifically to do.
I wont claim you are wrong as I have no better idea then you do. However, it seems very illogical to me that they would push the enc perk removal unless there was actually reasonable demand for it, and I just haven’t seen or gotten any indication of that.
If I was a gambling man, my bet isn’t regarding if it happens or not. I believe thats a toss up, but I think there is just as equally a good chance it doesn’t happen.
However, if it does, I would bet on it coming in a patch without any warning (because Funcom probably knows the backlash that would accompany such an announcement, though probably would be blindsided by the fallout).
I do hope you are wrong. I can’t see, nor has any reason been presented yet as to why it would be logical for its removal. Then again, its not like other games from the past haven’t adjusted things and handicapped their players to the point of the games relevance just entirely disappearing… So its really anyone’s guess.
1 Like
I feel like the 5th perk was one of those things Funcom introduced when they launched the game that they wish they could take back, but now that it’s been almost 2 years, they can’t. There are so many incremental adjustments they could have done to weight, inventory capacity and encumbrance in the early days post-launch that they probably would have sorted this out by now.
But no, we have the perk, and many people want to keep the perk, and the common standard now seems to be, ‘just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean the option should be removed from the rest of us’. I’m sorry, but this is again falling into the us vs them without solutions. I can easily just say, as so many others do, go single player and admin your stuff, private server with your friends and admin stuff, or private server and make a mod that gives you such perk. I mean really, arguments like this don’t help.
Let’s throw out ideas, as many have already done, to find some happy mediums that still give an option to the builders that keep post-level 60 farming from being too irritating, but still balance out all the glaring negatives on official servers that this perk brings (as already stated/pointed out by many) But this back n forth about ‘don’t touch my perk’ is really counter-productive and doesn’t provide ideas that the devs can latch onto. The last thing we all want is for them to roll out another update that screws everyone without at least having had the community provide ideas that would be good, or at least tolerable.
1 Like
And like the roll mechanic and momentum system change, the blowback will be loud and voluminous, with a rollback patch in 2 weeks.
1 Like
This might be a dumb question, but: are you saying that the clan size is the critical factor that makes an alpha clan?
The reason why I ask this is because you originally framed this as an issue of “alpha clan vs RIP clan” and now we’re talking about “big clan vs small clan”. So either they’re largely synonymous or the goal posts moved.
Also, everything you said seems to be focused on a one day timeframe: farming for 8 hours, building overnight. Is there a specific reason why I can’t stockpile bombs over multiple days and then attack the alpha clan?
That… is deviously insightful.
This wouldn’t be the first multiplayer game I stopped playing because the devs decided that solo players need to eff off and go play singleplayer games instead 
Even when I had other active players in my clan, we mostly went around building our own builds instead of all working on the same build together. We were basically a clan of several solo players who liked having a clan for the ancillary benefits: clan chat, refreshing, and Purges
I can understand if Funcom decides that this is not an acceptable playstyle anymore. Until then, I’ll keep hoping that this isn’t the direction in which we’re heading.
1 Like
Yeah, no, those really don’t help. They’re a shorthand for argumentum ad populum: “(I believe) you’re in minority, so you’re wrong”
I’d love to, but a solution has to address a problem, and it’s still not clear what the problem is.
For example, if the problem is that people can pick up the contents of a whole vault and run away or teleport, one could propose the solution that makes overencumbered players unable to teleport during raid hours and that makes them receive no protection from their armor. But that “solution” won’t do anything useful if that’s not the problem.
As another example, here’s the change I’ve been mulling over in my head for a few days:
- Remove the 5th encumbrance perk.
- Make followers immune to lava and fall damage.
- Give bearers more inventory slots (e.g. 50 for T4s).
- When a bearer is following you, anything you harvest goes into their inventory instead of yours. It only goes into your inventory if the bearer doesn’t have any more inventory space.
The problem with this idea is that I don’t know whether it solves the problem with the 5th enc perk, because I still don’t know what the damn problem is 
1 Like
I couldnt understand it. It would be purely punitive for a segment of the population orthogonal to the pvp crowd that can easily be solved by a select on a server by server basis. It does NOT limit base size; it merely would slow it down. That has a bigger impact on people who play alone or on a server with a few friends who arent pooling resources but instead all want a base they built themselves. Unless they are going to nuke the maps to reset everyone (something they implied today they would NOT do) it merely handicaps new players further when joining existing servers.
1 Like