The way the "Attention/Alert" system of the enemies work does note make real sense to me

Alright, I am not too far into the game, true, but there is something I really find annoying, even more so since it does not make any sense to me and can’t be explained away. Namely the way enemies seem to perceive your team.

So they have this white circle around them that seems to be a visualisation of their senses and what they can see or hear. Makes sense. I have a look at the situation and decide that I want to move to the other side of the scene, since it does not only provide better cover, but also gets me closer to the guy I want to kill first - the kill with the Horn of Gondor.

So I find a route that is untouched by the white circles and even better… I am completely out of the line of sight of my enemies. Because there is a while freaking cabin between us. Should be working fine, so let’s go.

But what the… apparently as soon as I get closer to those white circles, they all of a sudden begin to expand and suddenly I am within hearing and visual range of my enemies? And even worse, they apparently can see me through a massive cabin? If you try to tell me that they are hearing me, then please explain what sneaking is actually good for… Plus, them muties are screaming at the top of their lungs, but they can hear me all of a sudden, while being out of their hearing range?

And then what exactly happens? After their spider senses kick in and warn them that there are enemies around, their normal senses all of a sudden get a magical boost and they can see what was out of visual range before or can hear me, in case their line of sight is blocked and even while I am not moving?

Why should I care for those white circles anyway then, when they mean nothing and the enemies can kind of cheat and decide to see me whenever they want? I just don’t get it.

And even more annoying, this kind of kills the immersion and the fun for me, since at least in the scenario I am at atm it prohibits me from actually using the attack plan that I had and to effectively attack from the one direction the devs seemed to have in mind. Because I simply can’t sneak into a position I would prefer, since the mutants are placed in such a way that I simply can’t pass them. I mean, the game at first suggests you could, but once the magical expanding circle kicks in, all plans become void.

Is there at least a canon explanation for that? Like, spider senses that then magically trigger an increase of effectiveness on normal senses? I immediately began to love this game, its characters and its general gameplay and mechanics, I really do, but this is beginning to suck the fun out of the game for me. I guess I am the only one complaining about this, but it really does not make sense to me…

And as a short OT side note… what also annoys me that I am forced to have a Steam account in order to activate games like this, which comes with, well, forums. And then that Steam forum is effectively shut down and I am forced to make another account only to post on the foum here. Also makes no sense to me and I am sick of this nonsense.

Just to be clear, is your problem purely the thematic problem, or also the mechanic problem as well? Thematically, well, it has some “gamey-ness” to it, for sure. Kind of like how in most stealth games you can walk up behind someone and choke them out and they never know it. Or how you can knock anyone out with a tap of a gun butt. Kind of like movie logic. :roll_eyes:

But if you have some question about how to get it to work right mechanically, there might be some tips to give.

There are some other things that don’t make sense to me on one map there was 2 very close parallel trees, looking horizontal on them I was south behind left tree and ghoul was north behind right tree sort of like an X situation, I can clearly see him but can’t make shot but on his turn he shoot at me. Another thing/bug when give Bormin +4 moves and try using Hog Rush outside his normal moves but in those extra 4 it’s still white lines and game show me it will cost 1 action but it end my turn.

I am surely grateful for any tips you can give to deal with this.

But apart from that this does not even make sense in a “movie logic” kind of way. I can at least imagine that someone sneaks up on me from behind. And once you’ve got completely knocked out by a door someone accidentally smashs against your head, knocking someone out with a gun butt becomes a lot more plausible.

But I just can’t wrap my head around this. Even more so since, as was mentioned here, there seem to be other problems like the muties being able to see or hear or maybe smell me when they have no line of sight to me and I am not even moving.

And usually “movie logic” is meant to make things more interesting, fun and sometimes a bit more easy for the player, in case we are talking about a game. This is not fun, it does not make the game or the combat really more interesting and it makes the life of the player harder without any explanation behind it.

You suppose the devs made that detection circles behavior accidentally or intentionally? assume for a second that its intentional…why would they do that? you notice that when you move close to the enemy the circle gets bigger but when you face away (as in not looking at them) it gets smaller? My guess is that the devs were trying to replicate that “feels like i’m being watched” sensation. Also some animals have more senses than your average human. The enemies in game may not be animals…but they arent exactly human either.

For gameplay reasons as to why did did that stuff? probably to keep you on your toes

I don’t know that I’ve ever noticed that it matters what direction I’m facing so much as purely how close their circle is. You can see that if their circle overtakes you.

I feel like that simulates getting close enough that they can start seeing outlines in the fog and concentrate on looking your way rather than scanning around constantly.

I’m on my second play-through now and I’ve experimented some with the sneaking. Things I’ve noticed that might not be obvious:

  1. As long as someone is “hiding,” it does not matter if an enemy could logically see you, you will remain hidden. If you decide to launch an ambush and your character is still in line-of-sight, then the enemy will spot you.

  2. You can activate an ambush and continue to move your squad into position unnoticed. This has a lot to do with line-of-sight. You can hide your squad out of the enemy’s detection circle then move them closer while maintaining stealth. Using a character’s “sneak” mutation can help but you don’t need to use it to move while remaining undetected. The game even tells you “This will alert a new unit” or NOT when you try to move a hidden character. Sometimes it says that and it still doesn’t alert them, not sure if that’s a bug or a hidden chance to remain undetected. I’ve used this technique sometimes to get 100% hit chances on singled out enemies. They can catch you sneaking but unless they get a turn for themselves they can’t call their buddies.

So, the circle system does work against you in some ways but works to your advantage in others. That’s games for you!

Yep, that’s the standard way of ambushing when you don’t care about crits. You just walk up to the edge of their circle and click ambush and plink away. As I’ve suggested elsewhwere, I wish they’d tweak that so you had more incentive to set up real ambushes.