Bring back spear PvP

[CodeMage]

@Croms_Faithful

It seems I am not always good at conveying tone through my posts.

I don’t know about you, but I know I’m not good at it. Hence the “with all due respect” opening

I would hate to antagonize a friend because I misjudged my tone

@Croms_Faithful

Either you have omitted this aspect of overall lousiness of Momentum, you have forgotten about it, or you did not notice it.

Or maybe we’re thinking of two different updates. Or I’ve mixed up the timeline.

I was referring to this change specifically. Unless my memory is failing me, disengaging to heal wasn’t such a big deal back in 2019 when they introduced this change.

From what I remember, they revamped healing in 2020, during Siptah early access. Before that, it was much easier to heal.

Are we talking about different changes or did we have different experiences of the same change?

@Croms_Faithful

At its heart, what is being asked for here is a nerf; a nerf to movement.

I’m not sure I would characterize it that strictly. Please don’t take this as splitting hairs over the word choice, but rather as an attempt to explain my thoughts.

To me, a nerf is something unconditional and without any tradeoffs. What @biggcane55 is proposing is conditional and offers you tradeoffs.

But even if we settle on “nerf” as the word, I would still say that not all nerfs are automatically bad.

@Croms_Faithful

As I said earlier there is already an abundance or means PvPers have at their disposal to catch runners.

Again no offense, but I think that your single-player play style is affecting your opinion here, because you don’t have to deal with chasing other players or being chased by them.

I abso-fuсking-lutely suck at PVP, and yet I have never really had problems escaping a fight. Hell, I’ve managed to run away from 2v1 or even an occasional 3v1. We could speculate that my anecdata is biased because I play on PVE-C instead of PVP, so maybe all the players who tried to chase me also suck at it, but even that would mean that the situation is heavily skewed: if you have a server full of people who suck at PVP and the dude who prefers to run away can always do so even in a 3v1 situation, that means that the game mechanics favor escaping.

I’m saying this to explain why I tend to favor @biggcane55’s idea. He’s a dude who has been playing only PVP for as long as I’ve been playing PVE-C. He also isn’t known for screaming “the game is dead, you ruined PVP” every time Funcom does something. And he doesn’t say “STFU and go back to RP” every time a non-PVPer chimes in. In short, he’s someone who has experience and who I respect. If he says, “hey, maybe we should do X to help with this PVP concern”, I tend to trust him to understand the PVP side of the things and I focus on figuring out what impact it would have on the PVE side

Mind, I’m not saying “you should trust him and accept what he says without questioning”, I’m just explaining why I think his claims about the PVP aspect of the idea are credible and why I don’t think he’s exaggerating the PVP difficulties of the status quo.

@Croms_Faithful

Why not add new and inovative systems and features that ALL players can enjoy instead, such as some of the things @den has suggested here:

@den

can we talk about alternative ways to slow people down? A bola with a skill shot, a item from Zath that lets you web the ground, grease orbs make people occasionally fall (This one’s kinda fun because it adds the extra depth of being able to ignite other people’s grease

I really don’t intend any disrespect to @den when I say I understand why @biggcane55 and other PVP players would be skeptical about these ideas. Like you said, there are already mechanisms in place that sound like they should be useful to catch people who try to run, and yet they’re not working.

@biggcane55’s idea has the advantage of simplicity. You don’t need to worry about a whole lot of details, like you would have to with bolas or Zath webbing or grease orbs (e.g. is aiming this janky enough to render it useless for practical purposes, how does it hold up on a laggy official server, are there any weird bugs in the new “slip and fall” mechanics).

@Croms_Faithful

Not sure where people are getting this idea that the objection I raised is to do with stamina.

I can’t speak for @Savilex.9, but I think he’s trying to say that the proposed change would require you to be more strategic about your disengagement, which would require you to manage stamina more carefully than you do now.

As for what @biggcane55 said there, he was merely comparing the game mechanics of health and stamina. He wasn’t saying you were talking about stamina, but rather explaining how he would like health to be a non-binary mechanic, like stamina currently is.

@DanQuixote

If escape is impossible when Hp falls below 50%, then HP cannot be allowed to fall below 50% at any time or the result is likely death as the damage now snowballs since there becomes no way to reasonably disengage.

There are two assumptions there that I don’t think hold up.

One is that escape is impossible when the health falls below 50%. If you’re fighting against mobs, it definitely wouldn’t be impossible, given their AI. If you’re fighting against players, it gets more serious, but it would still depend on the situation. Especially given that those other players would be subject to the same slow-down mechanics as you.

The other assumption is that “escape is impossible” automatically translates to death. If you have to commit after a certain threshold of damage taken, it would mean that you have to be careful about committing only when you feel certain enough that you’ve got the upper hand.