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I remember that armor penetration gets subtracted from the enemy’s damage reduction.

Now I wonder how the damage calculation is done with he 2 new perks:
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And

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So the description suggests, that the penetration is ADDED. But it seems not, after some testing I have done. It seems to be multiplicative.

So with an ancient lemurian trident you can get 22% armor penetration. Add the perk bonuses multiplicatively and you get 30.25%. (or is it 29,7% ??)

I have tested it with a player who has only 20 Vitality points spent and 221 (~30% DR) armor.

Roll and right click damage FROM BEHIND with armor on player: 155
Roll and right click damage FROM BEHIND without armor on player: 178

What am I missing? Did they change the formular, how armor penetration works?

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When you equip the weapon, what does your stats tab say?

I just went into single-player, crafted an ancient lemurian trident with an edgesmith, and slapped a master weapon fitting on it, which gives it 59 damage and 23% armor pen. My character is naked and I’ve only invested 20 points into expertise and no other attribute.

Here’s what the relevant portion of my stats tab looks like:
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Why Edgesmith? Bladesmith is better.
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Naked char, with 20 20 20.

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OK, now I am confused!
@CodeMage lvl 60 but placed only 20 points in expertise and have Stam regeneration 33/s

@SirDaveWolf lvl 60, used 60 points but none in the stamina and has Stam regeneration 40/s

Is this an agility effect and you have greater stamina regeneration @SirDaveWolf?

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Stamina regen rates are also affected by armor weight, and encumbrance level in additon to taking the appropriate 10 Grit perk

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It is, but I was going for maximum armor pen.

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I’m trying to follow what you’re talking about, and couldn’t figure out where 178 damage was supposed to come from. With the heavy blows perk and the backstab perk, it should come up to 180, so 178 is easier to understand now. I’ll try to find some time to play with the numbers later.

Yeah, that’s probably my encumbrance, as @Jimbo pointed out.

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By all means, I think you didn’t get me here…
Again!
If encumbrance is giving you better stamina regen…
You have 33 per second
Sir has 40 per second with
20 strength
20 vitality
20 agility
So @SirDaveWolf, has better regen and more stamina than you, still with 0 points in grit :man_shrugging:.
Sir has 120 points in Stamina and you have just 100, check the photos @CodeMage!

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No, not the encumbrance attribute, but how encumbered I am. It’s my single-player character that I use mostly in creative mode, and I have a bunch of stuff in my inventory. I bet that I would have 40/s if I dropped everything.

That comes from the agility attribute. Every point in agility gives you +1 to stamina.

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Thank you :blush:. So please drop down everything and let us know what’s your stamina regen to release the confusion :rofl::rofl::rofl:!I will check my self too, don’t worry np, but it’s good to know that agility is giving me extra stamina, thank you Mage!

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Here is an interesting but tedious article about it.

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No they haven’t changed how armor penetration works… (unless you’re on testlive and I’m still unaware of the change)

Checking as I type…

It appears both of those perks are adding raw armor penetration (additive). So the first perk adds 10%, the second one adds 25% just like the description says.

However… the armor penetration formula is 1 - (mitigation x (1-penetration)) and that’s going to end up as your damage multiplier.

Soooooooo to elaborate…

If something has 30% damage mitigation… and you have 30% penetration… here’s what’s gonna happen…
1 - (0.3 x 0.7) = 0.79 = 21% DR

Sooooooooo yes, multiplicative…

It’s @Taemien 's fault :stuck_out_tongue: He insisted you can just subtract those things so I didn’t bother following it through :joy: Now I have to go edit my spreadsheets dammit, just when I was rubbing it in to JJ…

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Too funny, LOL

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Yes, I’m the idiot for replying to this one in tandem with the other :joy:
Could’ve just left it alone for a few hours lol

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Last time I did a live test, that’s how it worked. After I was corrected about 2 years ago that it had changed to just subtracted from the actual damage reduction. I haven’t done a live test in 3.0

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Hmm… :thinking: Maybe the person correcting you didn’t check too much either :slight_smile:
Thing is… it’s VERY easy to mix up those two when you’re testing on average things that don’t have low armor.
For example in the case of the Arena Champion this 30% penetration means a 0.78% DR difference to just subtracting them… so less than 1% damage difference… :man_shrugging:

Oh well :slight_smile:
The bottom line is this… you put the armor penetration stuff on… you smack the thing with armor… and the thing with armor dies!

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The tests I did were pretty thorough, I was using different values of Armor pen using 100 damage weapons. Used to be able to use an admin command to change stats on a weapon. So it made it relatively easy.

I assume the changes came with 3.0 since they also changed the Armor to Damage Reduction formula from DR = Armor / Armor + 250 to DR = Armor / Armor + 500. Since the new changes would cause lower armor values (those of Light and Medium armor) to be extremely susceptible to Armor Pen.

Because using the formula you provided, something with 200 armor (~28% damage reduction) hit with a 30% armor pen weapon would do around 19.6% reduced damage. Not the full damage of the weapon.

When I tested this a while back, anything that had Armor Pen that exceeded the damage reduction would do full damage.

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But, no matter how lame AP works, you are not going for the alternative perks right?
Deadly shot is useless if you don’t main bow n arrow. And Double jump is bugged to hell.

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I believe what most people want to know is when is advantageous to slap a fencer or a master weapon fitting on their weapon, because most people don’t carry two of the same type with a different kit.
What I usually do is applying the fencer on maces and hammers and the master on 2h swords and axes.

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The wiki also states the same:

Is it possible to find the formula inside the code in the devkit? Or is it something that is hidden inside the C++ blueprints, which we can’t access?

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No, it’s not hidden… I was looking at it when I typed that :smiley:
What I typed is 100% accurate

However May 2020 is not that recent anymore and @Taemien might be correct that it got changed back with 3.0 and the reasoning makes sense also :slight_smile: