Dark Agartha unfair combination


#1

Memory of Flame plus Gravity Well. If a flame circle is in the middle and you get pulled in, even with a drone gadget preemptively cast to clear the knockdown you still die because those flames circles do insane damage. Unless we’re expected to carry immutable or thick skin or run 100% survivability, I don’t see how this one is considered a viable combo.

Edit: 25% survivability + thick skin still was only barely enough when I got pulled into two fires overlapping in the middle.

Edit2: Let’s talk another one. Blood Threshold + Blood Ritual. I assumed that the casts would not overlap. I was wrong. They can and they do. Until today I haven’t had any issues in DA regarding bad combos. Now there have been two.


#2

Yeah, that one - especially in that order - is a hoot. The combination with the energy sphere you have to run into to remove the buff is also “fun” when the sphere spawns outside the threshold.

My personal favorite is the still the Oni casting Mark, followed by Meteor Shower bombarding his own position so that there is absolutely no spot near him where a melee player wouldn’t get toasted.


#3

Unstoppable force or the Phoenician Support Strategem are also good ways to avoid being pulled in.


#4

I like when the oni has the mark, meteor shower, and the random flames platform, so even if you do find a spot, the random flame will just come and crush you. It does ~3x as much damage as the meteors so it’s worth avoiding regardless.

Honourable mention to the Dankkeeper for casting Anima Drain while he’s in the middle of one of his doppelgangers’ 10m ground aoes. though really it’s only a problem cause I use Beatdown to impair/purge instead of Evulsion.

Personally I do take PS + Thick Skin + Immutable in default, and don’t bother reading the plaques… only boss that can kill me in that setup is GK if it knows purging, cause it purges the Pain Suppression I’m using to fight through Malfunction


#5

I know ways to avoid it, but that wasn’t the point. Having extremely specific escapes to really horrible combinations is something FC said they tried to avoid and this counts.

Yea, and it doesn’t help that half the time that Oni decides he’s going to laser blast you from range instead of moving to melee range so even if you run out he doesn’t always follow you and you have to wait on the fire to go away anyhow.


#6

I get that you’re trying to highlight something which has a higher difficulty level, but hyperbole doesn’t help.
I think that the majority of platform & ability combos are about right. I agree that memory of flames is probably one of the hardest ones depending on what’s paired with it.
I’ve done it today on 4 characters using different methods to avoid/deal with it, so I don’t agree that it’s too specific an escape situation.


#7

After reading it I took a closer look myself and yeah. These two combinations either endangered me trough all my heals and defensive cooldowns or killed me on e6 with far better gear.
I will nudge nirvelle about it once he is back from whatever christmas time he is one. Somethings not koscher with those combinations or memory of flames from the getgo.


#8

e6? What about testing the combo in e10?


#9

Haven’t reached e10 yet. Highest is e9 for me but it never felt worth it for me going through the extra hassle for a few more fragments when e5-e6 already gives a nice amount. Might inch my way up the ladder but generally I’m a lazy comfort player.


#10

They said it was meant to be challenging to some extent …
We need to take a decision, either we stop wining becouse SWL is dumbed down or we enjoy when a fight needs a minimum of build plan in order to be won (not meant against you but in general)


#11

I always think of it that you don’t want unfair difficulty but fair difficulty. Meaning you waant difficulty you can effectively fight not damage you just get and have somehow to tank against even if there are players that have no tank skills cause there set is full dps.
They could make it so hard that you only can substaintank trough it but would that make it better? I believe no.
Memory of flames has issues since it can produce instakill scenarios you hardly/don’t see coming. For one all flame effects blur into a mass and than it’s also a very strong hitter you need to dodge.

So I disagree in that it’s a build plan question but that is my personal view on it. Not a “You have to think the same because I am omnipotent by existing”


#12

You do realize that things aren’t black and white, right? I mean, maybe you don’t. Maybe you lack the ability to see nuance in things. Maybe gross generalizations are your thing, I don’t know.

It’s not a case of one or the other. There are areas between. This is an area between. Difficulty through challenging mechanics is fine. Crank it up. Difficulty through unfairly throwing the everything including the kitchen sink at you at the same time is not fine. It’s the difference between a game like Dark Souls being fun because it’s super hard and challenging, and what we now refer to as “Nintendo Hard” because the mechanics are jank or bugged.

The two situations I described above in Dark Agartha are jank.


#13

I think that to one person a mechanic may be challenging, to another it’s everything and the sink.

Frankly, we don’t have the information we need to for this. We can’t say how many people fail under these circumstances, we can’t say how many succeed. It’s possible that there is an unspoken majority sharing the problem, or it’s a vocal minority.

Honestly, it’s one of the times that I’d love to have access to FC’s metrics!


#14

Just imo of course but the most unfair challenge is the hitboxes on the broken stage. It’s impossible to tell if the thing you’re jumping to is solid or not, you have to learn where to make each jump by rote.


#15

I do realize and I don’t lack anything … I did not mean to be offensive so maybe drop it here ok ? :slight_smile:

The situations you described are pretty rare and need a very specific combination of events that make things harder. I would say that maybe they are not fine tuned as they could be, but not bugged and not impossible at all, even tho they probably will get you killed if not expected. For sure not harder then the GK casting both the AoE circles at once when you are cornered for example.
All it took in E10 was maybe move the AA slider a bit or drink a healing pot, maybe dodge out I don’t even remember how I done it so nothing that required specific items or skills. I think I just soaked the damage somehow and dodged out of the situation.
But that’s not even the point, wining becouse a challenging mechanic can not be fine tuned enough to avoid very rare and unfortunate circustamces under which it gets much harder is just asking for it to be dumbed out IMO. I rather die a few times, even more because they already are the only times I do.


#16

Cmon it is just a matter of moving the AA slider or having a healing skill/healing pots and we are talking about solo content not meant to be done in a glass cannon build.
Most people I know do DA with a survival build, 85% dps 15% tank AA and only change the gadget between fights, how can it be unfair difficulty ? Even if you die once here and there it is not the end of the world …
Then of course it is al a matter of points of view like you said, I totally agree, so this is mine :slight_smile:


#17

I think that it’s important to remember that DA is not just aimed at people who are in e10 gear with all the abilities and passives bought. Not having capped everything puts you at a significant disadvantage and in some cases there will be players (as Leogrim said,) who have not yet bought the survival skills necessary to adapt to DA.

In all fairness though, “Dark Agartha is intended to be a serious challenge for hardened players”, so it makes sense that there is an element of difficulty. It’s what we as individuals perceive the level of acceptable difficulty to be which varies wildly.


#18

I agree with you AWOL and I too have friends who are not in E10 gear, they just do lower tiers (some in E10 gear do lower tiers as well :stuck_out_tongue: )

I would also add that DA is not obviously aimed to players who did not cap AP/SP yet, becouse those players have more usefull ways to spend their AP/SP. Still they should be able to try it out or do it occasionally if they want, maybe if they are really short of active/passive skills they will just have to do it a few tiers lower then their.


#19

I run it with the same gadget (the cleansing hoop) and don’t read the plaques to make it harder, but I’m IP1150 ish so maybe overgeared for e10.

The only effect that kills me is “boss purges on every cast” and that’s not a matter of weapon choice, just that I’m taking enough damage that I need defensive abilities and it neutralizes all mine (the only hammer/chaos heal that works is the pulverize one which I don’t slot cause I’m using demolish)


#20

Why would people who did not yet cap passives/actives run DA? They would get significantly greater benefits by purchasing universal passives.