Optimal 3 agents for DPS?

The main difference is that we already have multipliers which buff elite’s damage separately from power ability’s damage. Eruption requires a passive (Annihilate) to make use of the rage to empower its damage, but this is similar to an investment any other elite ability would get to get some direct or indirect additional punch. A 20% damage increase on elites provided by Pierre Delacroix boosts directly Eruption + Annihilate’s damage.

The way it works, the wording basically doesn’t mention anything about neck signet power ability damage increase also buffing specialties - this is done for the sake of simplicity, just like Outstanding chance and stuff related to agents is hidden to not confuse new / casual players. But this is however how the game works in terms of consistency - while there are components that tend to increase outputs of an elite’s damage by adding in specialty (Annihilate with rage spending), as stated, they already have their own modifiers (Annihilate scales off elite’s damage increase, while things like Auto-Loader, passive for High Explosive Grenade, actually in this situation scales off the neck’s signet BECAUSE the neck signet boosts incendiary grenades’ damage, otherwise it wouldn’t scale at all unlike Annihilate (Fractured Existence - passive for Pandemonium - is another example where the elite’s passive scales with power ability boost since it produces a singularity, being a Controlled Chaos effect as part of chaos specialty, thus getting buffed by neck signet)).

Crystallized Blaze isn’t part of the elemental specialty at all, just a random elemental Special ability. It’s like saying Seethe isn’t buffed by the neck signet, which would be sort of silly. Crystallized Blaze is perceived as mandatory in the current meta because of how overpowered it is, that’s why people can see it as being part of the elemental specialty even if it is not - it is purely a balance issue. It doesn’t make Blaze suddenly part of the specialty, just a Special ability. Elemental specialty is the heat, and since it is multiplicative with everything else, it automatically buffs all the abilities on an additional multiplier’s level, so there’s no additional scaling required there (same principle for blood). Incendiary grenade though is directly part of rifle’s special ability since it is the only way to get the generated grenades used, just like Spirit Blade is for blade, or Frenzied Wrath is for fists, so these slot taxes need to be somehow scaled to match Demolish rage bonus (otherwise, hammer would simply be the only weapon to scale its specialty with power signet, which is just silly…, well, hammer and ele/blood which autoscale everything, as said).

I could blame this decision, i won’t do it though because i actually like it, it makes things working differently for weapons. Things like having a slot tax to make use of a weapon’s specialty is the things that i enjoy for the sake of variety - while it can be perceived as detrimental (because who likes having 1 less slot on the bar?), it is also indirectly a way to make people move for different offhands depending on the weapon slot requirements.

So, TLDR:

  • From the point of view of consistency and theorycrafting, power agent bonuses not affecting specialty skills (grenades, Spirit Blade, Frenzied/Invigorating Wrath, Controlled Chaos, matching chamber bonuses, shotgun shells) is not a normal behaviour.
  • Power agent bonuses not affecting Swallow Cut is purely a bug, different from the previous point.
  • Power agent bonuses not affecting other Special Abilities such as Crystallized Flame (excluding those related to weapon specialties listed in the 1st point) is a normal behaviour, just like neck signet power ability increases already NOT affecting those.

Maybe @Glaucon could drop a comment about this issue?

[quote=“Szalord, post:21, topic:2279, full:true”]From the point of view of consistency and theorycrafting, it’s clearly a bug.
[/quote]

I’m halfway in agreement - I’d classify this as “bad interface design” rather than “a bug”. If neck signets said “boost power damage and weapon specialties by X” and agents just said “boost power damage” this would never have become an issue. Then again the +weapon damage agents don’t mention that they boost weapon-specific weapon/talisman damage procs, either. Again, bad interface decision, notabug.) Agents and signets work differently and affect different things. This is the normal behaviour, the game just does a terrible job of conveying that fact.

From a theorycrafting PoV, I’m fine with it. If the observed data don’t fit the theory, then it means you need a new theory, not new data :sunglasses:

It’s the design the majority of the games use (at least, themepark MMORPGs). They mask the tooltips to their simplest form to avoid confusing the majority of players, and they let the underlying mechanics be figured by theorycrafters. Imagine the following tooltip for the Journeyman signet: “Increases the damage and healing of all Power Abilities by x%, their associated specialties and related passives” - this is super confusing for a newcomer.

See above - underlying mechanics. Just like weapon procs are affected by weapon expertise whereas extraordinary talisman procs are NOT.

Or it also means a game, by definition, has rules, and that rules must be respected to bring harmony and consistency. No question the game is so imbalanced when the game’s own rules aren’t even respected in the first place. Also not sure about which “data” you’re referring to in your sentence (observed “data” when it is some law of physics not matching a theory - i’d give you that, but observed “data” about a software’s feature developed randomly by 2 people… please!). By bringing consistency, the game will get closer to a better balance just by the own fact rules are respected and clear, then some adjustment will only need to be brought (in terms of specialty scaling themselves like coefficients for matching chamber bonuses or their uptimes / other mechanics related to them, for instance - since the non-specialty stuff like damage coefficients on abilities is already streamlined accross all weapons).

PS: try to remove the “full:true” attribute in your quotes, maybe this is what causes them to be broken upon display.

Sorry for OT but they don’t work if anything is on the same line as the [quote] [/quote]s. You have to [quote]
quoted text
[/quote]. (this text intentionally same line to stop it converting)

And yet, in years of playing and discussing MMOs, this is the first time I can recall people complaining something was bugged because it does exactly what it says it does on the tooltip. Sarah (and Terry and Warlawarru) say they increase the damage and healing of Power abilities by 8% (and with the possible, and already-noted, exception of Swallow Cut) they do exactly that.

Arguing that they’re bugged because they don’t work the same way signets do strikes me as arguing that Shotguns are bugged because they don’t have a Corruption/Martyrdom meter - agents aren’t signets any more than shotguns are blood foci.

But I don’t have the time, energy, or inclination to argue it further, so I’ll leave it at that.

Any new developments? Is it still Oleg and x2 7% per weapon?

It changed a little thanks to the +10% agaisnt mob type agents. Not sure if that changed oleg or a 7% agent.

The increase to the Crit power soft cap has also changed this. The quartermaster is BiS for some builds now.

Note that this is only if you have your glyphs upgraded to Elaborate.

I dont understand, if you have or not have them upgraded ? Becouse if you upgrade the glyphs to elaborate you already hit the new crit power soft cap or am I wrong ?

Doesn’t Crit power pull ahead regardless if your not at the soft cap? At least according to the calculations I last saw. Maybe that depends largely on weapon and Crit rating at the time. I mean that’s going off old calculations from Smyrils spreadsheet so perhaps outdated now.

No Crit power soft cap is not reached with 2 elaborate Crit power glyphs. New soft cap is ~738 higher then old cap.

You’re right, Drenneth. I honestly don’t know what I was thinking. Sorry for the confusion.

Still, the difference between the Quartermaster and the next best Agent is going to be extremely small regardless. For Chaos DPS, for example, Lydia Davis is actually about 0.23% ahead of Quartermaster, and the previously best Agent, Oleg, is about 0.5% behind.

But it’s not right at least for Crit power

So, if I’m boring… and I run KSR/ele build. Nassir, Melisandre and Oleg?

Mel, qaurtermaster and Oleg (or OD agent in place of Oleg)

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Is there a list somewhere of when and where to use to 10 percent folks? I know aquatics for Polaris… demons for Hell raised…

Secondly, during OD is there a trick to switching out quickly? I have no mods. So, is boo builds the only way?

I use the mod for that but otherwise the buildmanager would be the quickest I think but a hassle to save that many builds

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It is possible to macro your build manager builds, “/gearmanager use buildname” and if you want you can also have a script to shorten that. If you’ve got programmable buttons on your keyboard or mouse that can help, but it’s limited by how many build manager slots you have.

My personal approach to OD is to accept that I’m not going to be able to switch out stuff and so tend to run with an interrupt and a cleanse at all times.

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Sorry to steer off topic… once all glyphs are elaborately maxed. Is it still advisable to run 3 devastating glyphs?

In theory, what does elaborate weapons look like? I know nobody knows… or can’t say. I thought they mentioned this somewhere previously. It was hinted at… when they mentioned elaborate glyphs. so, KSR Energy will still be the same 33% vs maybe Havoc or Alacrity suffixes could increase?