Pet nerf? Why even keep the pet system then?

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
21

This one agrees that pets need a rebalance.
This one disagrees that any of them need a nerf.

There are a couple that were almost worthwhile.
They are getting the ban hammer.

The idea that they are somehow easier to get is…
Curious?

  1. Only greater pets are worth using.
    This is entirely an RNGesus prayer roll.
    Compare to 'Zerkers and Treasure Seekers, who have guaranteed spawns.
  2. Pets require their own taming station, that doesn’t even work for Horses. And special food for a better chance at a decent one. By the way, gratitude for the smaller one.
    Combat thralls use the same taskmaster on the wheel and gruel that crafting thralls do and are subdued using the same tools.
  3. Pets only scale with level. As opposed to Thralls who both level and can be equipped with gear for specific circumstances or just to enhance survival. Thralls also can be equipped with Truncheons for getting more thralls. Pets are only (rarely) good at killing.

Because pets are pure Rng unitaskers, they should be mighty. Not all at fully Vault kitted 'Zerker level. But definitely competitive within their particular niche.

But no.
It has been decided that we must be slavers rather than beast masters if we want to have utile followers.

As matters stand there isn’t really practical incentive to even try for these combat critters other than in a specific extremely brief level range.

Perhaps if pets had a follower limit like Zombies rather than eating a full thrall slot it would be better

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22

I will just refer this thread as well to my opinion on the subject that I already voiced in the testlive discussion :slight_smile:

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23

That is the problem with knowing the future.
It is very easy to forget that everyone else is living in the present.

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24

Yup, I’m pretty sure the phenomenon is way more common than most people think. Internal builds quite often show no resemblance to the current game we have so they might not even be aware of bugs being live in their proper context and just how urgent they are etc. since they corrected and forgotten about those ages ago and “their” version doesn’t have it anymore :slight_smile:

Who knows… Dennis might be playing with Sabretooths that are actually overpowered and needed a nerf :smiley:

25

The RHTS fighter starts with 3030 health and the Berserker starts with 2884 health. Not sure where you are getting this 2k + fantasy, unless you just failed math in grade school.

Also, the RHTS start with zero strength vs the Berserker +15.

I know where they are, how to get them, been doing it for years now, thanks.
I will stick with my Berserkers.

26

You know, there are times when your rude bluntness is called for… and works…
Well… this is not one of those times…

I am getting the AVERAGE 2k based on the fact that a berserker starts with 2884 health, but that already includes his 30 vitality… so their actual base health is 1677 while RHTS has a base health of 2310, so quite a difference from the start… add to that their average stat gain plus any good Vitality perks while leveling up… and that gap can very easily go past 2k…

Just turning on follow while having well trained… will give a RHTS 1440 extra HP, while it will give a berserker a mere 805.

RHTS will quite often very easily get over 6k health without well trained or any form of buffs or bonuses… butt naked at level 20, while Berserkers generally hover around 4k or less, with a few god-roll exceptions.
So that’s where I’m getting the ~2k from… (you know that symbol right?.. they use it when something isn’t exact, but an approximation… )

Yes, however they also gain less than HALF the damage bonus per point of strength than RHTS, so eventually unless the RHTS is unlucky, it will typically more than catch up in damage by level 20.

Allow me to introduce you to the spreadsheet I made at the launch of 3.0… maybe you would care to study it a bit.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m not against smug regards and whatnot, however it helps if you’re sure about yourself before you make them…

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27

How amusing that you get so butthurt so easy.

I have seen your “chart” already, you posted it in a past thread.
What does agility do for a thrall, can you explain?

Makes little sense to say this, since the overall health is what matters, and the bonus is not going away unless there is a “steal bonus health” weapon I am not familiar with.

I have to question your “quite often” claim, as I have leveled hundreds of both, and am speaking from experience myself.

Also -

15 x .825 = 12.37
30 x .4 = 12.00
So you are pretty much just picking the fly poop out of the pepper. Since a Berserker already starts with strength it does matter. Berserker > RHTS. Do you understand THAT symbol?

Sir, you are the master at smug regards, but when the tables turn you go full salt. . amusing.
Do not get me wrong, I like a lot of your posts and admire your tenacity on a subject, but when someone disagrees with you, OMG. . . :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes:

28

Ooooh I wasn’t butthurt :smiley: I was trying to moderate myself thou to not be way too harsh :slight_smile:

It’s essentially the same as strength, thralls can make use of the distinction the players also have whether something is a strength or an agility weapon (pets can’t, for pets the stat is useless).
So for thralls if you give them an agility based weapon like a katana or bow, then that’s the stat that is going to be used instead of strength, just like for the player.

(Agility melee weapons still use the melee multiplier)

No, the point was to illustrate that despite starting with 3 times the vitality they still have less health because for them that stat is simply less effective :frowning:

I mean… I leveled a few too :slight_smile: That’s pretty much how it ended up for me most of the time… even now I have a couple of each… the RHTS typically hover around 6k and my Berserkers hover around 4k… ofc outliers will exist on both sides, but that’s the conclusion I drew from that and the numbers from the spreadsheet that this actually IS a thing and no, I’m not saying it happens ALL THE TIME :slight_smile:

I mean… you’re the one to say :smiley: with the 0.002 multiplier advantage :joy: 0.37 is still a very large number compared to that…

I’m going to have to disagree, and I’m not anti-berserker by any means, I have quite a few of them and I often pick them as lab rats to try stuff on :smiley:

Yes!.. don’t disagree!!!.. disagree bad!!! :frowning:

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29

I still prefer Berserkers, and I still like you. :kissing_smiling_eyes:

The thing is, with the perk reset potion, it is very easy to get the god perks now, so really the line is very fine on differences between top tier NPCs IMO.

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30

Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!

My post wasn’t a criticism of your choice.
I asked why and explained why I always have more RHTS than berserkers.
They are overall superior and you can catch them much faster.
There’s also more choice in their appearance. A beautiful berserker used to be exceedingly rare. A beautiful RHTS is more common. Looks and stats. When I can have both, I’m happier.
I used to dry the wine cellar :wink: and then go for the berserker (there were always map rooms close to both spots). That gave time for both sites to respawn. The simple math of it would give me a ratio about 4 to 1, not higher because some RHTS spawn as archers and others you can see on the spot that are downright hideous.
But if you prefer mostly berserkers, by all means, get all the berserkers you like.

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31

Sorry if I came off grumpy, I did not mean to sound that way. ( Maybe a little, lol )
I think I have just about every flavor of RHTS. I am still trying to get every flavor of Berserker, but am starting to think it is limited. Blondes are very rare, especially the men.
I understand they are Cimmerians, not Nordheimers, but I think the RNG gods will eventually give me one.

I am in a six person clan and we are capped at 140 thralls. So when I want to pull one off the wheel I have to delete one. ( Do not want to cause all of that thrall lag ) :scream:

Since we have over 50 level 20 RHTS right now, and the demand for dancers is higher, and we also have a lot of named thralls that really are not worth a lot other than they are unique, add in the mounts and a few pets, now we are focused on Berserkers.

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32

Don’t worry, I have a thick skin, @JJDancer . :wink:
I simply don’t know your habits. I know you play this game for aeons, but you would be amazed by the long timers I meet that are stuck on outdated routines. I didn’t think that was your case though. I just wondered why the berserkers instead of RHTS. You just explained it. :blush:
Now, the most beautiful female fighter that the game gives you, in my personal opinion, is not an RHTS, but a berserker. I prefer long dark hairs. It’s very rare, but you can get a berserker with the same facial features of the most beautiful Lianeele on the top of an incredible body. That’s a combination so rare that even getting it on Single Player might take spawning a few hundreds of thralls. In an online game, it’s like finding a unicorn, but I got one, just one, once.
I don’t know if they tweaked how thralls appearance is generating, but I swear that getting beautiful thralls is harder now than before, even if you spawn them on SP. Either that or I’m being unlucky for weeks. I couldn’t spawn the right combination for my SP game even once, on several different saves since I started playing again. Not once.
They could make my life a whole lot easier and just give us a thrall customization tool for consoles!

33

I would say Berserkers are… good enough for anyone who lives north of the Mounds. They’re just convenient by comparison. For everyone else… probably want to stick with RHTS.

And get this, at level 0 a Berserker will do just under 7% more damage. Assuming both using the same strength weapon.

At level 20… well that’s when things change a tad. With a strength weapon, the RHTS will eventually overtake if given the right foods. By just around 1%. But given an agility weapon, they will do quite a bit more, especially if given the foods for it.

Unfortunately the agility weapon combos are broken for thralls for most weapons. Daggers are the only ones they use properly. Katanas and Shortswords simply got 2-Handed Swords and Broadsword assigned. Which isn’t the full potential of those weapons… well with the nerfs to Katana it may not matter as much.

But if Thralls were ever given the Shortsword stabby stabby combo, the RHTS would be an incredibly dangerous thrall with those weapons.

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34

It’s one of the things that frustrates me most about their combat. Thralls completely suck with a short sword. The first time I crafted a voidforged gladius and gave it to one, I was utterly disappointed. Never repeated that mistake.

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35

I think somewhere along the way that changed too (possibly with 3.0)… While I was working on the damage meter, in my tests the katana actually was the second best weapon after 1h maces when it came to thrall DPS. The issue is that the RHTS in question had way more agi and that’s how it got right up tight behind the mace… However full on agi katana wielders definitely seem more viable than pre 3.0 when you were worried that they might chop their own arms off…

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36

They do some cool stuff with the katanas, but stopping mid fight to clean the blade is NOT one of them. If it wasn’t for those animations, they would be rather viable. I tried to create an agility based warrior on my SP game and equiped him a katana. I was pleasatly surprised by both the number of times and precision of his dash special move. But then those animations… it’s not that I don’t love them. They are the coolest. It’s the timing they choose to perform them.
Btw, I will still have some thralls using it. It’s way too cool to go to waste. If they die, they die! :smile:

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37

The issue I think you might be seeing is when they use the Katana special but don’t go through with it. Normally when a player does the special attack (not in combo), we hold the Block/Kick/Special button and then use the Light attack command. Then you get the katana dash.

The problem with thralls is they are giving inputs like its a Two-Handed Sword. So when they use the special, they don’t use light attack with it. They’re trying to Overhead strike with the wrong weapon.

This isn’t a hard fix for FC to make. They just need to give Katana its own entry in the combo table and either give them the occasional dash attack, or simply give it the normal 2 Handed Sword combos without the overhead swing. Either would work.

For Shortswords, using the 1-Handed Sword normal inputs isn’t a problem. But giving them an entry of Heavy Attack followed by four Light Attacks would give them a vicious little combo that would work amazingly well in PVE.

Just to give people insight into how all this works… depending on the tier of the thrall (there’s two, so I assume its Tier 1 and 2, and Tier 3 and 4, but it might be T1-3 and T4, this I’m not certain about) there is two tables, one normal and one elite.

The normal one for most weapons is basically 2 hit combos. Light and Light, Light and Heavy, Heavy and Light, and Heavy and Heavy.

The elite one has the above and 3 hit combos and 4 hit combos.

Some weapons like 2-Handed Sword, Daggers, etc. Occasionally have a single combo that uses the Block/Kick/Special. This is used when a shield is detected or a off hand item also. Which is why when you give your thrall throwing axes or shield, they kinda randomly block or throw. Its because a combo is randomly picked.

So they may do two light attacks, or 2 lights and a heavy, or just block for a bit. You all get the idea.

I assume this also affects NPCs as well.

Unfortunately I don’t know how thralls pick weapons. I haven’t dug that deep for what causes them to pick different weapons.

Also Pets use their own combos. Which are usually pretty simple to my knowledge. I haven’t dug deep on this either. But animals and creatures have ‘natural weapons’. Which give them various attacks. They use some method (maybe random) to switch weapons to do different attacks. Like the tail swipe on the Giant Croc boss is a different weapon than their lunge and I believe the regular crocs are not equipped with that one.

Which in turn brings us back to the point of the thread. The pet ‘nerf’ is readjusting these ‘weapons’. Right now, pets use the same weapons as their wild counterparts. Which in some cases gives them incredible amounts of damage since they get a lot of bonus damage per strength.

Tamed pets will have their own weapons separate from the wild ones which will allow FC to boost pet damage without boosting wild ones.

For example… no one here wants to see a dog/wolf buff also buff Corrupted Wolves do they? Well… I do, because I’m crazy :smiling_imp:

Or see a buff to wild tigers and cats giving Greater Sabretooths a buff in PVP.

I hope we’ll see some Armor Penetration changes in the future for pets.

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38

And that still triggers the special katana animation? The light attack serves as a trigger, right? You click the special button, power it up until the blade glints, and then use the light to unleash the blow when your target is lined up. However you can trigger the attack at any time by using a light attack, even if it hasn’t powered up fully.
How does the thrall deal with these factors? Do they fully charge the blow? Does the lining up with the target determines when they release the blow? Or simply they don’t use the special attack (there’s a similar dash in a combo, but it isn’t the special attack because it doesn’t power up) and it only seems that way?
I understand when you say they use the special attack of the 2h sword while holding a katana, but would that even trigger a blow? Because with the katana if you only press the special attack button, but don’t use the light to unleash it, you will just abandon the “charging position” without striking. Only pressing the special doesn’t result in a blow with the katana (like it does with the 2h sword). It only enters the charging stance. So, how does it go with thralls?

39

Dalinsia accursed on siptah
Stats : at start ( before stat change )
I managed to perk out and level power and health
Str: same then now
HP : nerfed from 8900 to 4359
Cant use crom sword, so i gave ferotoxic…
armor also seems broken, only armor-armor is same 1300 from dress only… thrall itself has 0
Great wolf helmet does not give str damage buff anymore…, and serpent braces also is meh, cause 8% bonus only and are equal to other 8% damage items while before it was like + 10 points in str… means now it should be like xarxus helmet for follower damage … not 8 but 20%-40% increased…

And perks was best to get first one +10 str and second 2 +10 HP, but needed to reroll cause of damned agility error…

In short, dalinsia was able to help in battles, before, but now 10 HP left and almost died in purge level 4… and cant do any help with world bosses

OH and yesterday in vault died my greater cat who had 3400 HP because 0 grit armor… thanks to these nerfs… and as mage with 25 stamina i can choose , mage or human… both is impossible… thanks no nerfs… and thralls that cant hold 1 world boss even if he gets 2 players to help…

  • fact that food is still based on old system, so there is no grit food, rhinos still shows up as horses,

Fun-fact : All ‘‘bugfixes’’ and nerfs are fixed then when they kinda helps players, but those who actually ruin gameplay, 2 years out of logic, like rhino counts as horse or fukin infinite slide when u fall 1 cm and slide till bottom of mountain is still in game, but crom sword, followers, stats are ‘‘fixed’’ and nerfed…

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40

I’m the first hating when thralls are nerfed (I stopped playing Conan for a while due to it! :laughing:), but your thrall seems to be underperforming mate… what world bosses are we talking about? With proper care, I’m still getting fairly decent thralls…