Remove flagging for people who flag multiple posts that don’t break rules, these random flagger are getting out of hand

First of all, I sincerely thank you for addressing my arguments. Second, I will reply in turn and it will be long, so yeah, it’s another “wall of text”. If you’re going to be dismissive of it just because it’s long, please tell me right away, so I can stop trying to find a common ground with you. Your replies to me are just as long, and I read them word for word. If you don’t want to do the same, that is your right, but I don’t want to keep trying if that’s the case.

They’re extreme, but why does that make them flawed? If I didn’t say Kim Jong-un, if I said “an abusive manager who caused my co-worker to take the medical leave of absence by yelling at her incessantly”, would that somehow make it less flawed for you?

Of course respect has an ethical component, and many others. That’s why I have such a big problem with your insistence that respect cannot be earned or lost. You keep talking about how everyone has “their own truth” and how that can change over time. When I first met the manager I’m talking about, I respected him as much as I respect any other person I don’t personally know. Was I supposed to keep respecting him as much after all that he did?

Why is it arrogant to say that he lost my respect for being abusive to my coworkers and myself?

Sure, it has been proven by science, so it’s wrong. How about something that isn’t even provable by science? For example, how about “the world would be a better place if we were all blonde”? Is that okay? Would you respect that opinion? Again, I cannot stress this enough, I’m not talking about respecting the person with that opinion, or respecting their right to have or express that opinion, but rather the opinion itself.

Like I keep saying, I agree that it has nothing to do with respecting the person or respecting their right to be wrong. Like I keep saying, I’m making a difference between respecting a person and respecting the opinion itself. To put it in other words: I have no respect for the idea that “the world would be a better place if we were all blonde”, regardless of who says it. If the United Nations Human Rights Council tomorrow said those words, they would sound just as preposterous to me as if my next door neighbor said them.

I honestly have a feeling that we don’t understand each other because you don’t think the concept of “respect” can be applied to something as abstract as an idea. Is that the case?

This is why I keep asking you to read what I write, just as I read what you write. If I said a phrase like that without any context, I wouldn’t be surprised you thought I was being arrogant. But I have repeatedly given context for my idea that people can earn and lose each other’s respect based on their actions.

Going back to my example of the abusive manager – a real person who really did what I described – I do not consider that person to be worthy of my respect, no matter how much you think it makes me arrogant. He behaved very badly and I lost all respect for him. It has nothing to do with being a scholar or even with whether I am in any way superior or inferior to him in any quality. It has to do with what he did.

Yes. Really. Read the context, and you should be able to see why I consider it perfectly acceptable. Or if you skip all of the context again, let me give you another example right here: if I cheat on my wife repeatedly, am I worthy of her respect?

That’s because you ignored all the context around it. Of course you’ll find it arrogant. And yet I keep explaining what that means. Is it clearer now? Can you go a bit beyond this image of me that you painted in your mind and perhaps consider all my attempts to explain my position?

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NO , i would never respect, as it fails on the ethics arena, that comment would be flagged as racist, there are several considerations that will flag an opinion as a bad one, and yes in some extreme contexts i would not, i even voice it out., as i said, respect has ethics as ingredient, you cant condone mass murderes, human right abusers, rapist, and so on, there are some extremes… so to try explain myself,. i will never respect someone who has raped someone. i might think that person has no right to live, and will be ok in my books to be sent to the electric chair, but others might be against it, as for others all life is sacred (just a point of view) am i right to not respect his opinion because it contradicts my own?

the context for me was, we are in a gaming forum, i am sure we aint going to be touching extremes such as the ones we have been pointing out, to clear ir out,

the following example is illustrative, it does not mean that you or i have the opinions below.
for instance : they removed the ability to transfer between servers, (fact)
@codemage it is ok, and say perfect, i love it. because you believe transfer are bad.
@palm522 is NOT ok, because i play on pve , and i think they should still allow the
transfers. because i believe there is no harm. (you can change reasons for both)
we are supposed to respect each other position, you might think i am wrong, i might think you are wrong. (who is right?, the correct answer will be both)

sure i can, and if i did not got what you tried to say, i apologize. my point is, without going into extremes, respects for people ideas even if you feel is wrong is possible. and trust me , i have failed in what i am writing here many many times. ( countless) it doesnt mean people cant do better.

depends, did you cheated on her? XD

being serious, of course not, but this one goes into the ethical issue we talked earlier.

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That last question is very interesting. My belief is that each one of us has to answer that question for themselves, on a case-by-case basis. For me, the respect that I have for an idea or an opinion (not the person) represents the degree to which I am prepared to consider that idea or opinion regardless of whether I agree with it.

I’ll try to explain what I mean by that. If someone says “the Earth is flat”, that’s an idea that I won’t even consider because it’s proven to be false. If someone says “the world would be a better place if everyone was blonde”, I won’t even consider it because it goes against my core values that define me. But if someone says “no one deserves a death sentence, not even an unrepentant, cold-blooded rapist who has proudly claimed his crime”, I would be willing to hear their arguments, even though I strongly disagree with that opinion.

That’s why I believe that I can’t tell you – and you can’t tell me – which opinions you should respect. That’s something you have to answer on your own.

I don’t know, I’ve seen plenty of extreme opinions here that aren’t ethical or philosophical in nature. Here’s an example: people who play PVE should not participate in discussions about combat balance. It’s actually a pretty popular opinion on these forums and I have pretty much no respect for it.

Again, I’m not saying I don’t respect the people with that opinion or their right to have it, but I think the opinion itself is short-sighted and selfish. That doesn’t mean I think people who have that opinion are all short-sighted and selfish, just that particular opinion.

Likewise, I apologize if some of my reactions were stronger than it should have been. When I get frustrated, I can be very acerbic. I try not to, but I fail way too often.

Thanks for your willingness to stick with this conversation. I feel like we actually understand each other’s views better now, and understanding is always worth pursuing :slight_smile:

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or ignore. O have so many ignored now, it makes the forums funny because i will see replies to hidden and see I am making the right choice (for me) hiding the post.

I actually got flagged for
replying to a poster who passively gets personal, that they made my ignore list.

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How do you know it is wrong? I ask because as a person who believes the world is not flat, I can only go on what others have seen and reported. (Pictures from space, scientific exponential formulas of curvature, etc). I have never personally witnessed the earth from a distance to see it as a globe.

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I think I understand. You are saying when something is posted as an opinion, we as a forum should discuss how they got to that opinion, not just systematically dismiss I as wrong or untruthful. Is that correct? if so, then you are making sense to me.

Please keep your comments on the topic.

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:point_up: And that right there is the reason you should respect the opinion of someone who believes in a flat earth. At least until and unless they start stubbornly and flatly denying any existence of evidence to the contrary. For example, if the Earth were flat, I could climb a tall building, look east and see the Eiffel Tower. The fact that I can’t is evidence that the landscape curves downward at some point, moving objects beyond that distance below line of sight and blocking my view. Thus proving that we are living on a doughnut. :upside_down_face:

Yeah, that’s pretty much what he’s getting at. Or that’s the way I read it anyway.

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Ever been on an intercontinental flight? Or indeed, any flight where you can notice that the trajectory doesn’t seem to be a “straight line”? That’s because it’s shorter to fly a great circle route.

Ever called someone by phone and it’s not the same time there as it is where you are? That’s because they’re in a different time zone.

Ever been to a country in South America (or anywhere in southern hemisphere)? Notice the night sky looks different?

I could go on, but my point is that there’s ample evidence that the Earth is a globe. All of the above is the stuff that I’ve personally done and noticed. Now, sure, I could choose to believe it’s magic, or it’s all a great conspiracy. Without getting deeply epistemological, let’s just say we all gotta draw the line somewhere. So yeah, I’m willing to say I “know” the Earth is not flat, the same way I “know” homeopathic dilution is bunk.

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And the humidity, the dirt, the smog in the air, and sunlight reflections/refractions, and mountains, hills, buildings in front of it!! :stuck_out_tongue:
(This was not an insult, I’m just joking and it has nothing to add to this thread.)

we don´t need to argue wheter it is a human right or not, since it is officially stated as one by the United Nations. Their establishment is based on the agreement of 193 countries.

So no, I don´t appeal to just some authority.

Because he is a human beeing and therefor a moral beeing. Even criminals are human beeings and therefore have the right to be treated as one.

Human Rights aply to everyone, they make no difference between inocent child or criminal.

https://www.coe.int/en/web/compass/questions-and-answers-about-human-rights

No, its not a straw man argument. It goes together. Newer psychological studies show how much group behaviour can both socially influence and manipulate people. Showing someone respect makes him feel good, accepted even loved. Deliberately held back, it deflects in the other direction.

Individual behavior and decision making can be influenced by the presence of others on a rudament basis. There are both positive and negative implications of group influence based on individual behavior and the shown respect.

Respecting someone’s opinion is when you say 'Well, I respect that, but here is an educated argument as to why I disagree …"

It is not stated as a human right. In the website you linked it states that “promoting respect for human rights is a core purpose of the UN”. However, nowhere in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is it stated that an opinion is required to be respected.

The closest it come to addressing the topic is in Article 19 which states:

“ Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

Respecting someone’s right to have and express an opinion is not the same as respecting their opinion.

——————————————

HOWEVER, if you are an anti-realist and believe there are no objective truths and that truth is established more subjectively - than it may be the case that not respecting a persons individual “truth” is not respecting THEM intrinsically.

This is why definition and foundational points are critical for debate/discussion. You can’t just throw around words with no regard to their meaning - to both arguing parties.

If we don’t agree on the origin from which “truth” flows, we cannot reach agreement on the best way for us to work towards that truth.

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If it really is, could you point me to anything that documents it? I’ve looked on that site and elsewhere, and I can find no mention of UN stating that respect is a human right. They talk a lot about how human rights must be respected, but I hope we both agree that “human rights must be respected” and “respect is a human right” are two different propositions.

Again, you cannot conflate respect and peer pressure just because there’s a correlation between them, or even a causal relationship.

That’s the whole point, I don’t respect that. I don’t respect the opinion that “all left-handed people should be killed”, I don’t respect the opinion that the Earth is flat, and I have yet to see you state why anyone should respect opinions like that. If you’re still conflating the respect for an opinion with the respect for a person or for a person’s right to have or express an opinion, that’s your problem – I’ve clarified it repeatedly.

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But what the people want to know is “would you flag it?” :studio_microphone:

Either of those opinions.

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FWIW, I would flag “all left-handed people should be killed”, but I wouldn’t “the Earth is flat”. I disrespect both of those opinions, but for very different reasons.

But that’s just me. The whole point of my point of view is that you don’t have to respect my opinion. That’s what allows me to be so opinionated :wink:

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Respecting a person and an option are not mutually exclusive or inclusive.

I think some people are conflating being polite with having respect for a person or their ideas.

Respect isn’t a binary factor, it’s evaluative. Some people are more respectable that’s others. Some ideas are more respectable than others.

No one should be expected to respect the opinion that the earth is flat. Just like no one should should be expected to respect the opinion that fire is cold.

Both of these ideas would require a world wide conspiracy spanning generations with absolutely no gain. It shows a lack of critical thinking to hold either of those things as true. It’s still good to be polite to people who have those ideas.

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search google for: un human rights respect

you will find it almost on top of the search

Ähnliche Fragen

Is respect part of human rights?

Bildergebnis für un human rights respect

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms that belong to every person in the world, from birth until death. … These basic rights are based on shared values like dignity, fairness, equality, respect and independence. These values are defined and protected by law.19.06.2019

I posted this quote before. But you are free to search for it by yourself. If I could find it, you can too.

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We appreciate your interest in this topic but please remember to follow the forum guidelines when posting threads/posts.
You can read more about our forum guidelines here: Formatting Guide - Funcom Forums

Thank you for your understanding.

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And I think the oposite. I think a lot of people don’t differentiate enough between what someone is saying and how he is acctually acting. This are two very different things. Respecting someones right to have a certain opinion doesn´t mean I have to agree to it or in a worst case szenario have to let something happen. I also can try to activly prevent the spreading of speach hates and such things. Respecting someones right to have a private and personal opinion doesn´t mean I have to accept or support it. It also doesn´t mean its automatically allowed to be talked about in public places because it would violate the law or human rights of others. There are a lot of ways I can counter and acting back if such things happen, including reporting him to law officials for violating or acting against the law if this is the case.

But still as a human beeing that he is (even if he is a bad one), he is entitled to have a personal and private opinion. This is his giving human right. And as long as he sticks to the law and is not spreading hate or violating other peoples human rights it should be respected.

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Yes, I saw that, and that’s why I asked you to point me to anything that documents that the United Nations consider respect to be a human right. That quote doesn’t, because it says that “these basic rights are based on shared values like dignity, fairness, equality, respect and independence”.

Here’s the actual Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the United Nations: Universal Declaration of Human Rights | United Nations

The declaration contains a long list of rights spread over 30 articles, and not one of those articles comes even close to saying that you have the right for your opinion to be respected. As the article 19 points out, you have the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and they elaborate that this “includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

There is nothing in the whole document that stipulates that, if I say the Earth is flat, you don’t have the right to dismiss that opinion as preposterous and uneducated. There is nothing that stipulates that, if I say that all left-handed people should be sterilized, you don’t have the right to dismiss that opinion as inhumane and abhorrent. And there is nothing that stipulates that if you have been abusive to me and my friends, I still have to respect your character and your opinions.

The clue as to why can be found in the quote you like so much – it doesn’t say respect is a right, it says it’s a value.

Both @OctaviousWrex and I have clearly distinguished between respecting an opinion itself and respecting people’s right to hold or express that opinion. In fact, I’ve done it so many times in this discussion, that just quoting each instance would double the length of this post.

At this point, the only two conclusions I can draw is that you either don’t read most of what people write in reply to you, or that you choose to deliberately ignore what is written. Either way, it’s useless to keep the conversation going.

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