Maybe I’m not the best person to be judging this issue - fatalities are of no interest to me and never were, so their inclusion in chapter 4 is, from my perspective, just wasted code and wasted dev time. However, I’m aware that there are some players that do want them and therefore, like the addition of sorcery (which similarly has no relevance to me, but I applaud because others wanted it), I’m glad to see players getting something they want. (To that end - I’d like to invite @GodlyVoice to add some input, as they are the one person I’ve seen so far on the forums be positive about fatalities - hopefully they may have some insight that counters my following points.)
The bigger issues I see with the fatalities are not that they are being added - as noted, I support that - but rather what I see as fatal flaws in their implementation.
many of the animations are poorly paired - there is a clear visible delay between the weapon strike and the corpse ‘reaction’. For example - the Katana fatality thrusts into the body and rips out to the side - around half a second later the two halves of the body cartwheel away in that direction. That is not how momentum works. (Also a thrust into the centre of the body and cut out to one side would not cut the body in half, but I digress.) Several of the other animations are supposed to represent a weapon being thrust upwards beneath the victim’s chin into their skull - yet the weapon can clearly be seen clipping through the front of their face. Are these just ‘stand in’ animations while the real animations are being finished? Or is this shoddy effort really the best Funcom could manage?
There is no intrinsic value to performing a fatality, because there is no skill (or meaningful timing) requirement. I can understand wanting to ‘do the cool thing’ if there is a bit of a challenge to achieving it. For example, the various ‘tool kills’ and other special kills in Assassin’s Creed games require the player to a) discover that they exist, and b) maneuver the combat to the right positions, then use the correct sequencing to get the ‘cool’ result they wanted. But with CE’s new fatalities there is none of that - you simple fight as normal until RNG decides that an enemy will go into a fatality state, then you pause long enough to break your combo and tap the same attack button you always would. Honestly, I don’t see the point
the overall system appears to be poorly implemented, with people reporting getting locked into trying to perform a fatality that they don’t want and didn’t intend while still surrounded by other enemies. Sure there’s protection while actually performing it (and a buff afterwards), but there’s also the ‘stand still and pose’ phase after performing it (without which it wouldn’t even be a ‘fatality’, just some new poorly implemented death animations), which results in all sorts of problems. (Plus of course, there’s the problem that in some circumstances it can result in the character becoming immortal…)
I don’t know - maybe there are some positives that I am missing - and maybe some of these issues will be resolved before the update goes live (though I doubt it, given how rarely there is any change at all between Public Beta release and Live Branch). So long as the entire fatalities system can be switched off, this will be of little relevance to me, but I’m struggling to see how this has been anything other than a waste of dev time, because I do not see how it can be satisfying even to those that actually did want fatalities added.
You’ve saved me an immense amount of time trying to really understand the new system. Gratitude.
As implemented, as described, and as yet untested by yours truly, this will be a boon to online play, Single Player and the game in general. I’m not ashamed to say how easy it is to create a macro for a specific action, and then by using said macro one keystroke becomes 30. This interrupts all of that, and potentially breaks it forever.
If it can be implemented with cinematic kills, it will be. Epic. I would ask you to join up with me so you can get a bunch of epic fataLOLities for my channel! Huzzah!
Not sure I really understand what you’re saying - it could be sarcasm, it could be genuine. As far as I understand it (really not my area of expertise), what you say about macros is true - it would presumably be possible to create a macro to enter any combination of required controls at the press of a single button. But this leads to the same issue that I have with these ‘idle’ games - a friend showed me a couple and they pretty much seem to be a game that plays itself for you - I don’t really see the point. Similarly, if there was a more complex way to intitiate fatalities (something requiring a bit of skill/effort), a macro could maybe be used to get round it (though I was thinking an element of actual maneuvering/positioning could be required, which might mitigate that possibility) - but why would someone want to? Siurely the point of playing a game is to play the game (somewhat rhetorical, since, of course, idle games exist and people use macros for advantage frequently…)?
I hope not. I hope you would try the new system yourself and make your own judgements. (I’m also aware that may have been the point you were making… the lack of tone on this one is giving me real difficulties - the like on my initial post suggests you’re not ‘swinging into battle’ against me - but I genuinely can’t tell whether this is an opposing or supporting viewpoint, I’m sorry )
I think the game has been plagued by macros. This RNG functionally breaks them. If this is in any way intended to fix that, as well as be an awesome effect once properly implemented, then I’m all for it.
My intent is to play the Beta once I feel some other underlying issues have been addressed, or at the very least acknowledged.
Presumably then this relates to the complaints of hacking? I see them, but obviously in single player, have no experience or real understanding. I’m really not sure how a little bit of RNG relating to whether or not a fatality can be initiated would prevent that - but I’ll happily take your word for it, since I know you have a far better understanding of the topic than I do. Certainly if this fatality system in any way addresses the hacking issues (even if only partially), then that would be a great step forward. That would add another positive, in addition to the fact that some players just want fatalities, which is good to see.
I’m not sure that resolves the issues I see with the system’s implementation/animation/lack of depth/skill/effort (on the player’s part). But I also imagine that you’re witholding judgement on those elements until you have seen them for yourself, which is perfectly fair.
As we’ve seen, frustratingly, is that the Beta bears poor resemblance to the Release, and that any forward momentum derived from joyfully playing is often erased. At this time in my life, I can’t play Conan Exiles joyfully until a certain bar of excellence is met.
In Single Player, it is effortless to record a thumb button macro that makes kills on a boss a press and wait. One of the old system’s mechanics was easily exposed by finding terrain a boss cannot escape, Admin cloak, then spawn a big fast boss, then simply click the macro. Your character would basically glue himself to the enemy and strike until the thing is dead, by only striking forward, automatically advancing.
In practical application that meant anyone PvP who can program a thrusting macro can exploit the game’s innate momentum system without any requisite timing or skill. This is the old system, the newish one addressed it. Coupled with this, in other words, the nature of your OP makes me believe the developers are indeed approaching some more vexing technical aspects, including ones that have less application in Single Player.
Well, I’m gonna have to use one of Codemage’s favourite gifs -
I just truly do not get why someone would want to play a game that way (maybe once to see if they could make it work - but surely the point of playing a game is to play the game). In PVP on the other hand, I can see how that sort of thing would be a big issue - PVP by it’s nature engenders competitive behaviour, and humans aren’t always ‘fair’ when we’re being ‘competitive’. It’s natural for people to want to use whatever advantages are available to them - and the current thread regarding why not to cheat bears testament to that fact that ultimately it comes down to personal choice whether to use these options or to potentially disadvantage yourself by holding to a different standard. Arguably the debate over animation cancelling a few years back boils down to the same idea - some viewed it as an exploit, some as just using a solid understanding of the game, but there was little debate that it provided an advantage.
I’m glad to hear that some of Funcom’s moves seem to be addressing this - to me, using macros in that sort of way would feel like cheating, and I can certainly see why you would be glad to see them gone. I’ve no idea what you see in my complaining that gives you such hope, but I’m glad you see it, and shall look forward to the developments. (Hopefully they can polish up the system - if not in time for this update, then maybe they’ll continue working to improve it rather than just moving on to the next shiny thing.)
I am no negative either, to almost nothing however, that’s why i don’t count .
Personally i do enjoy the gore this game has, i wouldn’t mind if we didn’t had fatalities, but like @Wak4863 said they need more “job”.
I will use fatality for sure to Arena champion and to every single purge leader including Al Mera yah boss . These are my main goals. Npcs that sneaky almost killed me will endure fatalities non the less. But i would love to control “who and when”.
I can certainly see that happening. The urge to revenge is strong, even when it’s just a bunch of pixels that snuck up on us. (They must die for their crimes )
That would add more depth than the current system appears to have, which I think would add greater value overall and make it more worthwhile. I can see why it can’t be something too complex (wouldn’t really match up to the game to suddenly need to enter some extended sequence of button presses), but it would be nice if it was something a bit more deliberately activated by the player, that required some level of effort/skill to perform.
I want to address this since this is coming from a position of ignorance (as in actually not knowing the full reason, this is NOT a insult or criticism of you personally). Fatalities are part of a larger frame work of multi-character emotes. This has been mentioned in part in some of the devstreams, but its very hard to miss since it was said in passing. But everytime the idea of ‘petting the dog’ or shaking hands, or other multi-character emotes are brought up, they have mentioned the fatality system was building the framework. Those in testing have known about this for a while now as well. I just wanted to bring this up since I don’t think its general knowledge. But we should be getting non-combat stuff from this system as well in the future.
My criticism on the fatalities is that while they look great. They need to smooth out the animation a bit. Its hard to see what exactly is happening with most of them. I didn’t see that issue with the animations from Age of Conan. Admittedly, I’m wondering if there was a limit on length of the fatality for gameplay purposes. The longer you’re in animation, the greater the chance of being in danger when you come out. I’m not exactly sure of the design process going into that.
This actually gave me an idea. Since the nature of the buff you get, it does kind of make sense to make obtaining it not so frequent fighting lowly tier 1 thralls. But I think when fighting those miniboss type NPCs that have skull healthbars, they should pretty much 100% of the time go into fatality vulnerability when defeated. You’ve fought a hard foe, and when you win, it should be a climatic finish.
So when fighting the Arena Champion its definitely should be 100%.
Certainly not something I was aware of, but sounds good. May not have the greatest relevance to single player in the long run, but I can see how that would be a great addition overall. In that case I’ll take this run of animations as a first draft and look forward to seeing what may come from it.
Not so sure I’d agree with you that they ‘look great’ - but maybe I’m being too critical and what I’m viewing as not looking that good you’re viewing as just needing a bit of smoothing out (and perhaps you’re correct - I’ve no great familiarity with the animation process - so maybe it is just small tweaks that would fix the issues).
I still think it could have more gameplay value if it required more active player involvement to make it happen - but being part of a larger framework might imply that it needs to be done this way, since other paired emotes would not be suitable to be a ‘skill test’ to use (I can just imagine the frustration that would be generated if they introduced ‘petting the dog’ but only if you line up correctly and then key the correct sequence ).
Multi character emotes? I know Funcom was taking ideas from mods, but I never even dreamed that they are going to implement multi character emotes from “the mod”
I can tolerate some more silly and unrealistic ways to hack people into pieces if it lets me pet my dog. There are too few games with dog-petting. I always, always pet the dog when I go to camp in Baldur’s Gate 3 because I can.
Yea, C’mon, do it Funcom! Dogs are our first ally animal, a devoted friend of humanity.
Now one of 2 houses in real life has a dog, i even named my toon Bella after my dog.
Give us joy!
I spent so much time in Assassin’s Creed Black Flag petting all the dogs and cats. I’d be running along rooftops in the middle of an assassination mission and have to stop to pet a cat because it was there.
But how’s this for a moral dilemma - what about ‘pet the spider’? Do we want that?
This is the opportunity to add some AI to our dogs.
Cats just wander around, lick their balls and are useless, like in real life.
But dogs don’t even bark.
Fatalities need to be improved. To my taste, i would shorten the animations, make them get triggered by the last hit I do on the target rather then requiring an addition hit from the front.
The only thing that makes them good right now is the 10% dmg bonus which I wish it stacked to 100%.
I don’t mind cat meaowing, but in Conan it is something else. Like the gates of hell opened and some corrupted soul is charging at you.
Why that echo effect?
The same with NPCs talking, like the princess in Sepermeru Inn. She sounds like she talks inside a big pipe, or maybe she’s in some empty room.
You stand next to a girl in a small room and she sounds like she talks to you via microphone from a stage in some concert hall.
Of course, cats also purr, which is one of the c00lest things in the universe.
Greetings @DanQuixote. My good fellow I am actually feeling positive about having fatalities added to Conan Exiles, or certainly the concept anyway. So I would be happy to offer my own insight. Although in the interests of transparency, I do worry that my rationale will be lacking intellectual reasoning skills and will be guided by a more base desire. Simply put; I’m warped. Ok so first…
The Positives
I personally am just a long running advocate of more gore and brutality (more on that later) in Conan Exiles. I loooove the idea of tearing our ptiful enemies apart limb from limb. Not only is this congruent with the backdrop of the Hyborean age, and the barbaric savagery it depicts, but I feel that the games death sequences really needed some updating. For example, an adversary’s hands falling off at the wrists if we hit them in the chest with a warhammer. For me not only does this fuel my blood lust and want me to fight harder, but the 20% health boost hopefully means motivating players to stay in the battle and keep their momentum going, with fewer strategic withdrawals. Best defence is a good offense. At least that is the idealised version for me. As someone who plays another Funcom game Metal: Hellsinger, I can see elements of this ‘kill momentum’ approach being trialed here. Now I just wish I could collect their severed limbs to decorate my base with. So what, aside from health boosts do fatalities offer? Malevolent satisfaction and the pure joy of the slaughter!
The Negatives
Not many for me. But the biggest one would be the implementation and exexution of the idea.
This is a big one for me. On the Playstation we have been battling desynchronization issues for years. Currently for example, it is not uncommon when killing an enemy to see in sequence: 1) their body disappear for 1-2 second upon moment of death 2) the blood stain will then appear 3) the corpse will then render in and fall to the ground 4) after that the death cry will play. I am really hoping this will not exaccerbate these issues. Or who knows, perhaps it may finally get them some attention.
Politely disagree with this. My rationale is above. Health boost, stay in the battle, gratuitous sadism.
This is my greatest fear for the system. I am just praying (no not literally!) for a smooth implementation. I hope it is possible to disengage or ‘break away’ from the animation for circumstances such as these.
Oh boy time to dust off one of my favourite memes.
I know Funcom was taking ideas from mods, but I never even dreamed that they are going to implement multi character emotes from “the mod” 
, it’s something isn’t it 
.
So what, aside from health boosts do fatalities offer? Malevolent satisfaction and the pure joy of the slaughter! 
