What harms rendering the most?

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Asking for myself.

Build count, thrall concentration, or décor? Is it the combination of the three?

TL;DR My base is semi laggy and I don’t want to get Admin smited.

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There’s quite a bit of supporting evidence that black ice building pieces are not optimized and will take longer to load.

Despite that, I try to keep the building piece count below 10k.

Thrall count was asked to be limited and we’ve seen little to no change in performance since Funcom agreed. Does it still have an impact? Possibly, but tests by players have not really supported it actually being an issue.

Now placeables are different… a lot of them are very resource intensive especially those that use effects like torches. There’s visual, audio and physical effects happening at the same time.

Some like their base to be lit up like a Christmas tree, inside and/or out.

Add in benches that also have light and are possibly churning out mats.

A huge one are containers. Chests are 45 items… now imagine 100 full chests. All of that has to be loaded.

So really, it is hard to say 100%. You could analyze by process of elimination. Reduce your placeables to only what you absolutely need; get rid of seeds type deal. If you’re using black ice, change it to stone, etc.,…

I’ve been in similar situations and the most impactful factor were chests. Despawning thousands of gathered materials was hard but it made a difference, at least I thought it did.

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Oof. It might be my materials then. To put it into perspective, My entire clan is at about 4k building pieces, but that is including teleporters and I think four or five public map rooms near Obelisks. Our thrall count is at 50ish, so that could be it too. The base itself has a pretty congested walkway down to the main building for when the purge system is revamped soon. I’m pretty sure a lot of them can be bounced around to other areas. It’s a public pve server so I’m trying to be considerate.

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I do know that on consoles, the servers were running pretty nice that one day there weren’t many thralls around.

I also notice that if I start stuttering and jumping around, I can check the player list and see that the one clan with the enormous build and max thralls in one place has just logged into the game. By enormous, I mean they take up the area between Mek’s spire to the river south, and over to N’Batu’s digs.

So, on console, it is a matter of concentration of building and thralls.

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Flickering lights seem to cause problems too, at least on console.

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I’d say torches. I have a 5k build, 500 placed items, 20 combat thralls, but only 12 torches lighting up the entire base (I like my bases fairly dark). No issues with rendering (mix of Aesir, black ice and some stable pieces).

I think everyone in this thread has hit on the main culprit. Basic torches can cause lag if there are a ton of them in a small area. In my experience, the radium and witchfire torches are less resource intensive. It also doesn’t hurt that they look cool!

Placeables in general should be used sparingly. Especially if it’s sole purpose is decoration. Ornate gardens with dozens of statues look very pleasing, but lead to server issues on heavily populated servers. I would recommend saving those types of designs for personal game or private servers.

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Would be nice if they gave more alternatives to radium torches. They’re really niche and ugly for most designs. I’ve been asking for some time now… more static lights are desperately needed. As it stands, aside from radium, all we got are wall lanterns (don’t give off much light) and the khitan lights. Nothing else. Btw, witchfire torches don’t help. They’re animated as well.

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I cut out the majority of my lights and I would say mixing build sets does contribute some lag. My base can still load a bit slow if I build too much because each set is a different texture that needs to load. Mind you, I’m on PlayStation where everything is optimized like garbage.

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From my experience, all three can contribute to some extent. The more items you have, the more load it takes. This includes mixing of build sets that each have different textures to load in. I recall they stopped doing as many placeables for dlc sets because they wanted to figure out a way to limit that. Also, anything animated can contribute, including thralls, torches, etc. This is extremely frustrating as they keep adding animated torches to the game… not to mention the sorcery items that have torches attached to them already. It almost feels like a bit middle finger to console players.

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:grimacing: I always mix a dumb amount of them. I think the current build is mostly Argossean with Turanian, Arena, and Stormglass for the windows.

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Same… I use a lot of Nemedian, Stable, Yamatai, Flotsam, Frontier, and stormglass windows. Then I’ll mix in a few others for flavor.

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In the past I’ve always stated that buildings don’t really contribute to issues unless they are crazy big and use unfathomable amounts of building materials. Though if they are large in landspace (width and length more than height) then they can cause issues as more ‘chunks’ have to be loaded in at a time.

Thus a building limit really wouldn’t help in 99% of situations. And the one percent that do can easily be handled by server admins.

However one thing I’ve always underestimated people on is their ability to minutely decorate their bases. I’ve always specialized in structural builds. Where I can build a base that is both functional and has a decent form and shape. But I’ve never been one that can decorate them well. I usually get my crafting stations, some basic lighting, and on occassion I can make a nice looking mead hall or similar meeting style place. But that’s about it. Halls, bedrooms, storage, and so forth are usually spartan and my placeable counts are usually very low.

But I’ve been in people’s small bases where they hit thousands of placeables in short order. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a hard placeable limit imposed on certain servers. And its something that can be set high enough not to affect normal game play, but low enough to actually affect performance in a positive way on troubled servers and those with limited hardware. Especially for our console friends.

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Now that’s very interesting news. I figure radium since it’s a single color with no flicker but witchfire surprises me as less intensive and I always put it as my example of lag. Gotta change to just regular torches then. Do the battle pass color torches act more witchfire or more like regular?..if you have time

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While the initial topic asks about “rendering” - which is a 100% client-side activity - Funcom admins obviously look at server-side performance too, quite often prioritizing it.

I’ve seen a lot of claims of how “black ice harms server perofmance” and even heard of private server admins banning it…
That’s not the case though, the claim that it affects the server is completely baseless.

When it comes to client-side, like you said :slight_smile: yes, black ice mesh pieces have more vertices than sandstone… (about 4x more if I remember right?) however… not more than the other T3 stuff… (reinforced stone is pretty much the same)

The type of building however makes no difference for the server itself, so we’re just talking about client-side rendering here, while the other T3 pieces and DLC pieces are similar in performance to black ice (some probably more intense).

For the server a building piece is a building piece… there’s 2 types of it… connected to other pieces? In which case they can share the same actor and be instanced mesh components of it, or separate piece, in which case it needs a separate actor.
(aka. putting down a few separate foundations has more server-side impact than having a connected building of several hundred pieces)

Just thought I’d clarify it as I’ve seen this brought up a few times lately, most likely what happened is some people with weaker computers noticed that they’re getting less actual client FPS when staring at black ice in comparison with sandstone - which is valid - and then this rumor got exaggerated into “server performance” territories :slight_smile:

Yea, this one is a major contributor, this and thralls. Especially the combination of the two, since when you place thralls in a cluttered area, they become much more resource intensive due to pathing calculations etc.

They have the exact same server impact :slight_smile:
Witch-fire ones seem to have a very slightly reduced client-side impact.

But yes, pretty much overlapping light-sources can kill FPS very very quickly, so a really good tip for increased client side performance is to spread those lights out - less is more!
Not only will the base typically look much better with a bit of mood-lighting, client-side FPS will be much much better.

Radium torches actually have no performance benefit over the standard ones, this is a myth also.


Summary:

  • Don’t build excessively, and if you build multiple smaller buildings in a cluster, start them off with connecting foundations (you can later remove those) from your main building so that it doesn’t create a separate actor for every small umm… “outhouse” (your decay timers will also thank you for this as they will share with your main building)
  • Reduce your decoration as much as possible (I feel a bit funny recommending this when in the next Chapter, furniture placeables will be thrown at us from every corner and every chest lol.)
  • Make sure to spread out your lighting, whichever light-source you may choose… don’t do it in excess and most of all make sure their light-spheres don’t overlap if possible.
  • Limit your thralls as much as you can, despite the official limit being super high (and some people even cheesing with guild invites of alt characters to further increase it) - just because you CAN do something, doesn’t mean you SHOULD :stuck_out_tongue:
  • If you do have thralls, don’t place them in the middle of too much clutter.

Hopefully someone will find that useful :slight_smile:

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I’m referring to console. Anything animated has a negative impact on console’s poorer optimization. However, idk if the bloom on radium is any better.

I now have a small base in a cave, no more than 300 building parts from reinforced stone, 17 thralls, 15 workbenches and 9 chests. It would seem like a small thing. Moreover, there are no torches or braziers. But I have a mod that allows me to increase the storage stack by 100 times. And, as a result, if outside the cave fps is usually more than 100, then in the cave it drops to 60.

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Supreme agreement.
This one would love to see a few more housings for the glowing gems. Perhaps something like a hanging lantern, or a smooth plinth.
If we were especially lucky, a radium “torch”, or hand held gem light would be so very nice.
This one had hoped they might have came with Age of Sorcery… oh well…

To further support this, it would be healthy for the servers. So perhaps someone in Dev land could look into this? Make it a thing to learn in game, so we can all do our part to ease server lag.

Also, witchfire fireplace when?

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I’m not sure if I can fully believe that the witchfire torches are any better. I think that’s likely a mistake. We already know animated items cause lag. They shouldn’t be any different because they’re blue/white instead of yellow/orange.

What about the glowing goo torches?