[Abilities] Fist main dps no longer has enough ability to sustain themselves

For solo scenarios and DA, I used to run them quite happily using Cruel Delight, Vigour and Nurture for healing.

However, post-patch all of these have had their effectiveness reduced by 50% or more, and there aren’t really any viable alternatives when you still need to do decent damage and interrupt.

Consider DA gatekeeper.
You need 2 interrupts, so that’s gadget and one ability.
You have your basic.
Power attack for each weapon, and you can’t make either a heal without losing too much dps.
Your elite might technically also be an interrupt, but you can’t save it just for then without again losing too much dps.
Furious Wrath.

And that’s it, your bar is full. No room for an additional heal. The fury gimmick means you effectively have one less slot. The fist weapon that automatically consumes fury is not a realistic option because having your interrupts and self-heal ability abruptly be replaced is a great way to get yourself killed.

I don’t really care how this is remedied, but I think it’s pretty inarguable that something needs to be done.

The simplest way would be to give Nurture the +300% self bonus is one way, possibly overkill but it would work. Excellent survivability for soloing, hopefully wouldn’t make it too powerful for tanks because of their larger HP pool. Even +100% would probably make it worthwhile again. This seems reasonable because of the slot shortage for fist, and by having it on a basic it can’t be abused by tanks taking fist as an off-hand.

As it stands, it heals less damage per tick than a DA boss’ default attack causes, and even 100% healing AA only doubles its effectiveness over 0%.

That’s odd…I basically run always with only one power (Raging shot) and totally ignore the damage of any offhand ability and still manage in fair time.

I’ve found the Bladed Gauntlets fix means I actually have to use my off-hand weapon now, maybe there’s a prospect there but I would end up using the same energy pool for all dps and all healing which doesn’t seem like it would be nice.

The ‘one less slot’ for fist is always going to exist, though. I feel like there’s not enough compensation for that at present.

Do you though? I normally just take one interrupt, leaving me room for a heal. You can heal/dps through anima drain and then interrupt the anima transfusion. You can also benefit from timing an elite interrupt. Depending on your cooldown, you may be able to use the elite once or twice before you actually need to interrupt transfusion. If you’ve got a high levelled signet, you may even be able to use the elite right before anima drain starts, and by the time the channel is done and he’s walked over to his spot for transfusion, it’s off cd again (assuming you fight him at the other end of the platform to maximise his walking time).

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Even with a red 1 signet, cooldown for me is still 13 secs or so, longer than the walk across the platform. The fist elite with an interrupt (Berserk) also roots you, so you won’t benefit from the free dps as he walks across the platform because you’ll can’t move until he’s out of range (even if you LoS it, it takes slightly too long). If your dodge is up you can flip towards him to catch up but then you might not have it ready when he does his first AoE after you stop the 2nd part of channel. Same for using Berserk to interrupt the second part, you are forced to LoS it early to get out of the way. The fury/energy economy kind of needs you to drop your fist elite as often as possible to avoid running out of energy so soon, and if that happens a power heal is no use to you anyway.

It’s probably doable, but I can’t see that it would make it easier enough to bring it in line with maining other weapons. A lot of things are technically doable; that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem to address.

Agreed. I do all that with Eruption.

I don’t get why they would add a root to an elite unless the damage is out of this world. How good is Berserk?

Berserk is absolutely the best fury generation; 20 fury over 2.5 seconds. Only slightly more than the other elites in total, but because it lasts 2.5 seconds you get more energy regen while it lasts. Plus the multihit gives you more crits, and thus more energy and other procs (even with the gcd, more hits = more bites of the cherry so it’s more likely to proc in each tick). With the passive, it applies exposed, stuns and roots the enemy, which would be strong enough in its own right except that they made every meaningful boss immune to stuns and roots. It outstrips fist power attacks and wrath-bar attacks by a comfortable margin, but it’s nothing special compared to other elites.

Before the bladed gauntlets nerf Berserk meant the fury/energy economy was so efficient I never needed my second weapon to dps.

You “should” be able to survive DA with just Cruel Delight and the basic passive heal (fist one is Vigour?) I don’t have enough experience with Fist to say how realistic that is. just set AA to where you have 15000 hp so the passive is effective.

I save my elite impair for interrupt on the GK and it has an impact on dps but it’s only about 15% less dps, not some all or nothing deal. Same for using an offhand heal… 10% less dps but if you survive it’s worth while. He only casts Anima Drain twice, at 33% and 66% hp, and before/after that you can use it for dps all you want. (using it at the start of a fight is slightly risky if you can do 1/3 his hp in 20 seconds)

I hear people say you can survive Anima Drain but that has never worked for me since I got up past E10, though I haven’t tried it post patch.

What about compared to other weapon elites, since none of those root you?

Multi-hit abilities have no advantage over single-hit abilities in Secret World Legends as they did in the Secret World. The critical hit chance for multi-hit abilities is reduced so that, essentially, multi-hit abilities have an equal chance per second to proc effects on critical hits as single-hit abilities do.

The basic passive is Vigour, but that and Cruel Delight together don’t even come close to keeping you up.

I’ve not seen an official source saying that, have you link one?

While I’ve seen parses showing that my multihit build has a lower-than-advertised crit rate, it didn’t seem to be as low as it would be if it was truly calibrated that way. With only 2 hits per tick, a 30% nominal crit rate (based on per tick) would see an actual 16% crit rate (based on per hit), and I never saw it that low.

I’m a lazy fudge so I didn’t look for the original source with probably numbers but it is dev confirmed:

It has been confirmed I think already in beta days upon question but like good luck digging around in at best 3-4 years old stuff if not older if it even still exists since it would be preforum.