There’s a precedent for that: plant fiber is used to make gruel in the campfire, but also used as a campfire fuel. The way to avoid using it for the fuel is to assign the fuel manually by dragging your desired fuel to the fuel slot.
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THANK YOU! I was thinking I knew of another time this occurs but I just couldn’t come up with this.
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Yup, I thought it was (and still think it is) the same kind of dumb so I just copied and edited.
Sure, except you are wrong. In all cases no matter the material it just depends what you know in advance and what you’re aiming for.
You could for example just go from stone to star metal in a single day skipping all other materials. Conversely, my first run through to level 60 took about six weeks and I was on hardened steel for over a week before I even knew what star metal was or how to harvest it (can be true on Siptah as well as EL). No, as I said for both star metal and hardened steel FC knows more than you and did an excellent job of tiering the materials to the best ends given all possible scenarios! What you’re proposing is a dumb idea, sorry, nothing personal, it just is!
That’s no longer the case tho right?
Oil is still fuel as far as I know. The rest is just pixie dust and wishes as far as harden steel is concerned. Hardened steel requires steel and black ice in a furnace officially. The debate is can’t we do something other than black ice? The theory is that since black ice is the same location as the meteorites, this is the reason people skip harden steel…since you got up in the cold to farm black ice and probably have access to demon orbs so why aren’t you mining star ore?
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Yeah, it still does. I just checked and was coming back to delete that. Grass in camp fires and oil in the furnaces (and vise-versa too). 
Because you DO NOT need black ice for hardened steel weapons, or gear. The bars are regularly available in loot chests and dead bodies of the appropriate level. A dismantling bench sure helps but even without it a 4 or 5 hour day of adventuring and NPC raiding will give you enough HS to kit you completely out in it. Star metal weapons are another NPC tier up - just like they are supposed to be - and in many people’s progression is about the time when that level of manufacturing (or manufacturing at all) becomes desirable.
In my first run, we all five of us, had HS gear before we asked ourselves how to make the stuff. The dungeon master (err, clan leader) had to go outside the game and into a Wiki to find out. We considered it a bit of cheating but nothing else we tried was working.
Ah…that’s the discrepancy in playing. I have an hour here, an hour there. I dream of times when I can get 3 hours of uninterrupted play that I used to get during the lock downs.
No discrepancy there! There’s no rule or law that dictates how fast a person should or shouldn’t level. Play it at your own pace! If it takes you six months to hit level 35, then WOW, great for you, your $40 game was REALLY worth the money! And you’re going to be totally stoked when you find HS bars in a chest or body-loot.
Forged in Fire gets a few things wrong, but let’s leave that aside for a moment.
Oil quenching is a very valid technique for finishing the weapon, but not so much finishing the billet. If we are trying to be very realistic (let’s not) the oils would be part of the weapon or tool construction phase at the blacksmith bench and would then let one use steel to make hardened steel items. Also, purified water for quenching the steel would be just as good, if not better than Oil.
If we want a superior billet, we either alter the carbon content, change the additives, or provide additional flux for removing impurities and such. Also, control the heat.
In that regard, coal would be a possible ingredient as would salt (as processed down minerals) or even silver/gold powder.
But honestly, alchemical base seems like the most “realistic” choice.
From a purely in game point of view, this one likes the idea of oil rather than sulfur. Oil is precious for making hardened leather and weapon kits. It’s farmable but sorta a hassle. It’s craftable, but also sorta a hassle.
Purified water is, honestly, another option. It also requires an additional craft station (or three) to make and while readily available once everything is in order, the set up is also cumbersome.
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Im just gonna point out, at launch a good player could take a week to get to 60… all tiers became usefull because of the xp extent it took to get to 60 and the fact that noone knew the game 100%, now if you know the game it takes half a day to hit 60, consequently making everything irrelevant… especially given the fact that you can grind each tier on mobs relativley fast.
EDIT: or cheese a boss or two into the ground
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This is one of those changes which struck me as kind of odd and nonsensical from its inception. You mean to tell me that, from a lore perscpective, that back in Cimmeria they have to venture into the Outer Dark every time they want to whip up a batch of hardened steel…!? Surely not the case. If I recall correctly part of the reason this change was enacted was because people frequently walled off the Shattered Springs brimstone lake, and members were having difficulty locating other large quantities. But that was then and this is now. There is now no build areas in place, and moderation on official servers. As such, I feel that we should now return to a recipe which I) makes more sense from a lore perspective, and II) does not make hardened steel weapons feel redundant in the same manner that iron weapons do to dafari ones. Moreover, I feel that we do not need black ice to incentivise us to travel to the snow. We have to go to the Frozen North irrespective in order to:
- find and attune 2 Obelisks
- complete the Journey Steps
- use the frost forge and obtain black ice recipes
- defeat the Kinscourge and claim his artifact
- get to the Volcano biome
- find and farm star metal meteors
- obtain sabertooth cat cubs
- harvest frost lotus’
To say that we need to have black ice as an ingredient in hardened steel bars to warrant going back to the Frozen North is a diservice.
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The only reason to use hardened steel tools or weapons is if you happen to find one while leveling. There is much better things to use your resources on.
Going from 50-60 even at 0.5x exp only takes a single session. The tier is entirely skippable, easily skippable, and most likely skipped by most newer characters if not many newer players. Truth be told… star metal is probably skippable too.
The whole tier system is kinda borked. Its meant for a much slower pace of leveling, which is hard to obtain even when server values are set pretty low (and even then its an arbitrary fix that doesn’t comprehensively fix the situation), and a gameplay loop that is only seen on a handful of private servers (seasonal wipes for the purpose). I’ve been able to mod a bandaid fix, but to be fair… it just doesn’t fit in the game as a whole and there’s only so much I can do with editing feat and item tables.
But as it stands now the biggest issue is we spend 99% of our time (and more as we play more and more) at level 60. Our gameplay loop is to defeat bosses (and vaults if on Siptah) for loot. Stone, Iron, Steel, Hardened Steel, Starmetal and Acheronian tools and weapons are used for a few hours tops, of that playtime after making a new character. After that, its everything above those tiers.
Some of us who experience frequent wipes, reroll characters, or participate in seasonal play see those tiers the most. But I can say from experience that it is still quite brief before going back on the normal loops illustrated above.
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“Could take”? It can still take weeks, months or even years to get to 60. I don’t understand the context nor do I understand why it’s at all useful to compare the game as it is now to how it was 4 years ago. 
New players still do not know the game. I’m a case in point. Purchased a little less that 18 months ago and knew absolutely NOTHING about it. Just that it was a survival game with better graphics than Vanhymen or 7 Daze To Die. No idea there was a Wiki. No idea there were forums. No idea FC was present on FB, Twitter, etc… Nothing! And I encounter MANY new players in the same boat - never been to the forums, wiki, and are dealing with CE for the very first time. For them (and me 18 months back) it is still as you say it was like for you years ago.
It took me 6 months to find the forums and only after that was I told there was a Wiki - for example. I loved (and still love) figuring out things on my own. Our “Dungeon Master” said on an occasion or two that he “looked something up” - and only now can I assume that was on the Wiki.
That can’t be the ONLY reason because I used HS tools and other HS gear for weeks and that’s not the reason I did so. 
If your aim is to level up ASAP and you know how. A whole lotta people aren’t about all that. My first run through I never once tried to level up. I was MUCH more focused on the outstanding graphics, getting what I needed undetected or at minimal cost, exploring new areas, trying to understand the game in general, scouting to find new and interesting critters and escaping bosses with my life, and so on. I DID NOT go to the best enemy for leveling and slaughter 200 of them till I was level XX or whatever. That would be just F’ing stupid! Now, after I have already completed the game I’ve done such things though. I guess almost no 1st time players do that unless they are directed to do so by some senior player. And shame on us for doing that if we do! And shame on FC if they start “balancing” the game only for EOG players… 
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I think its better as is right now, when making hardened steel you should be able to survive in the cold area’s to obtain black ice.
I just feel the same way alot of others do… level has been sped up to the point where the first part of the game became obsolete for everyone except new players, dont get me wrong playing this game as a noob was great, but as it stands now most tiers of equiptment are wasted… especially since it takes no time to hit 60 and specifically hardened steel… considering you need lots of hardened steel to build a base i would say like everyone else, its a waste to make it when you could spend half the time to hit starmetal tier
I get that some of you like it the way it is, but why say keep it this way because i liked it when i was a noob
EDIT: i play pvp only so theres not much point in taking weeks to level, i miss the early and mid game combat sometimes… but i suppose i shouldnt complain about being able to max in a day
I may have that one a bit messed up, havnt been on in about 6-8months, trying to remember what we farm it for, i just remember we used to farm tons of it for something lol
Yep the t3 benches most of them require it, as well as a certain gear sets, i believe repair kits as well
And you always want 2-3 of each running
Either way, the point is still the same, its a waste to make the hardened steel tier when you can spend less time getting the eg gear and levels, i cant even remember the last time i used a hardened steel pick
This was exactly the game when I started, exactly! Hyenas and rocknoses were my main opponents and greater hyenas was a reason to flee. Journey steps was a reason to go north, yet before this you had to create an armor for cold. So The journey step was clear defeat the abysmal boss. This boss was giving you the recipe for warm armor, the reptilian. Resin and fur didn’t exist south you had to go north, fur existed to jungle too but poisoning was very op and bleeding too, it was lasting about 20 seconds and no food or potion, except antidotes ofcurce could save you. Poisoning was killing your pets and thralls too very easy, the lands were very vicious, simple tigers could kill you extremely easy and even if we had bandages we didn’t knew the use, we were carrying all the time food, that was our healing way, food and “herbal tea” that we learned later. The aloe soup recipe was THE recipe you MUST have. More or less nobody knew the game, we were all noobs, even the YouTube videos were not completely accurate most of the times. The most important? Skeleton keys couldn’t be used until level 60. So, slow leveling, totally unknown map, no dungeons, negative effects op and no legendary weapons unless 60 was the way I learned the game. Last but not least, no God thralls, good yes, gods no!
Leave Afonso to find his own way, just help him with the materials of the game, they are way many and organization in this game is the hardest lesson. I envy him, really.
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Im gonna compile the decent reasons for and against here with counter arguments if applicable;
Against:
- Because it gives incentive to go North
Correct, but there are also a wealth of other incentives as well. This one is barely an incentive considering Star Metal is practically right next to the Black Ice
- Black Ice is easy to get
Depending of the perspective of personal knowledge. A noob and long time player rarely agree on a single point, but the point here isnt if its easy to get Black Ice or not
- Hardened Steel can be looted
If looting is preferable to crafting a relatively basic item isn’t that a problem itself?
For
- Black Ice requirement makes Hardened Steel equipment useless regarding tier progression
Other equipment suffers the same problem
- Black Ice requirement isn’t Lore friendly
Lore shouldn’t be the sole dictation of balance (With the general reasoning given, it isn’t however. Just figured I’d kill this point before people start arguing over it)
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It’s COMING. SORCERY!!! We will be noobs again, yeeeeeeee 
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@tobbiusness forgive our off topic contribution here, feel free to flag me, no hard feelings 
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