I’m not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me. I haven’t played any of those games so “don’t forget what they do” has no meaning (at least not for me).
Would you elaborate a bit, what is it that they do in those games?
I didn’t say i specifically WANT a fire ball spell, was just an example.
But the way @LostBrythunian described it, sorcery works more like a manipulation by calling gods and spirits, but they can’t create those energies by themselves.
… Did i get it right?
2 Likes
Well… evil eldritch interdimensional entities of the Outer Dark.
4 Likes
I can tell.
Because meteors and lightning are naturally ocurring. Sorcerers are just manipulating and controlling natural phenomena. Fireballs are not. You can’t just wave your fingers around and create fire from nothing. Notice that both the meteors and lightning storms are called down from above, where those things come from normally. Now where would a fireball come from? Nowhere, because they don’t exist.
We already have lightning storm…
No
No
You want a healing ability? 5 vit perk, potions, wraps, food, there’s already so many options that actually make sense.
This is the only one you’re not inherently wrong about, I’ll give you that. But the rest you are way, way off base. I’d suggest you put down your erroneous precocieved notions of magic that have been pumped into you by modern trope-laden tolkeinesque fantasy and go consult the source materials, which are the books - not the movie.
1 Like
One slight disagreement here.
As a sorcerer I should have a spell to sap a chunk of life from a follower to heal myself.
1 Like
I’m going to point out yet again, we have fireballs. We’ve had fireballs since before Age of Sorcery. If you want fireballs you go to the Alchemy Bench and craft them.
Even if they added fireballs to the staff, it would cost a Cloth Pouch, take two escalations on the staff, and then have a weird way of targeting (I know this because I’ve seen a mod do this already). You wouldn’t be able to cast it with NPCs surrounding you and beating on you. You wouldn’t be able to cast it before someone runs over its distance to attack you. And you would need to be 40% or more corrupted.
Just use the orb. Its easier. Its cheaper. Its more effective. Fireball on the staff would be a waste of developer time. No one would use it over orbs.
Orbs exist. Use them. They work.
3 Likes
…you do. It’s one of the perks in corrupted authority already. When you take damage it redirects half of it to your follower, sparing you health. Then when your follower hits something, you heal. More redundancies to do the same things you can already do aren’t worth adding.
It’s an okay solution, but one that lacks flavor. I agree that redundancies are pointless though.
I would like to see Flesh-Bond work with summoned demons from Demon-Lord (if it already does, my bad, but from my experience it does not).
Another concept I’d like is a perk that allows a Sorcerer who takes fatal damage to have the entirety of that damage transferred to his minion and killing it instead, if applicable. Might be a good idea for a final corrupted Grit perk…
EDIT: On second thought, it wouldn’t be redundant as it offers an option for players who choose not to invest in corrupted authority. Given that the spell would not require combat also places the functionality outside of the available mechanic. It gives players a choice, which is always better.
Using your arcane powers so that your minions shield you and heal you “lacks flavor”?
“Tell me, my student, what is the riddle of flesh?”
“Master, my loyal followers knowingly take damage upon themselves as living shields to protect me from harm. And when my minions smite our enemies they siphon some of the life force to heal me. The best part is I don’t even have to cast spells to do these things, they they happen automatically because I am made powerful by the forces of corruption.”
That sounds pretty darned flavorful to me.
To me it does.
If I’m standing around and in a bad state, I don’t want to have to get into another fight to heal myself if I’ve run out of healing supplies.
I’d rather sap my minions’ soul and take his life pre-emptively. THAT reeks of the villainous nature of Sorcery.
To each their own.
EDIT: I’d be less salty about this whole issue if my minions could…you know…reliably hit things?
Piggybacking on this, I’d like to see MORE orbs.
Glass schrapnel orbs that apply bleeds to anyone in the area of impact, Corruption orbs that…well…apply corruption. Acidic Orbs that apply sunder in the area of impact…
1 Like
That’s sorta how this one understands it.
There is a fundamental break between the magic in Sword and Sorcery genres and the magic in High Fantasy.
S&S magic tends to be slower, focuses on insidious manipulation of the mind/will, conjuration (often without control) of the damned, the dead, and that which defies definition, divination and scrying, perversion of natural properties and processes, and overwriting the world we live in with traits from hellish or non-euclidian realms. It borrows more from the theosophistry of the Victorian era than it does either historical systems of thaumaturgy or fantasy magics. Another thing about S&S magic is that it is almost never natural nor benign. Anyone born with it has heritage that is corrupted in some way and all of it’s manifestations, if not overtly malign, are unsettling and unkind. One may torture a benevolent use out of scrying, for example, but that doesn’t change the fact that the scrying pool is filled with the blood of the innocent or ichor from an alien radiation that haunts dismembered constellations.
In some S&S settings, Alienists (those with psychic powers) may exist side by side with practitioners of the dark arts, but that is far from universal and charlatans are more common than actual psionic practitioners.
Likewise mediums, or people with the “second sight” may also exist. This is also, in genre, separate from magic, altho some blessed (read:cursed) with the ability to see the unseen become dark mages as they are more susceptible to the vile machinations of Eldritch horrors.
Fantasy magic is much more free form, can be Benevolent or Malevolent, or just another power source, like steam or gravity. It can accomplish the, well, fantastical. It doesn’t have to make sense, it’s magic. Altho some authors will give it a framework or some apparent rules, literarily this is often just a device so the protagonist can then subvert or break the rules to show their power or specialness.
The former god bubble was an excellent example of High Fantasy magic in this game.
Comparing and contrasting magic in a Sword and Sorcery setting from a High Fantasy setting could easily be it’s own week of classes in either literary studies or popular interpretations of the occult.
If one is limited to movies and TV…
Conan the Barbarian was mostly Sword and Sorcery
Conan the Destroyer straddled between S&S and High Fantasy
Conan the Adventurer (the cartoon) was High Fantasy
Honourable mentions for Beast master (the first one only) which was mostly S&S.
Your lore may be good, but this is patently absurd.
None of those actually make sense for healing grievous bodily harm at the rate they do.
Eating food or slamming an aloe drink and a wound magically closing is pure high fantasy.
Just like having mutant style healing factors or bandaids that immediately cause the broken ribs under them to knit are entirely wonderland madness.
Those options don’t make sense, not even in context.
Instant healing is blatantly and overtly unrealistic. Hiding it behind health food and gauze doesn’t make it any more reasonable than preying to Mitra or mumbling and make rude gestures.
While not having fast healing options in the game is probably a hard non starter, pretending the ones selected make sense is diving headlong into pure high fantasy.
Delicious in Dungeon anyone?
Edit 2: But no, if we want it to actually make sense, fast healing should be gated behind corrupted vitality.
Allowing one to consume human flesh and demon blood to heal, perhaps even powder of corruption.
2 Likes
I’m somebody wants a change in how corrupted perks are handled, but I’m in complete agreement with redundancies being both pointless and boring. Why would I play a corrupted build if it’s just like the next guy’s experience? Changes that can continue to separate the corrupted perks from others to split the gameplay are in my opinion both the most fun and effective.
It’s been thrown around a bit, but a balanced stamina siphon in corrupted Grit perks would fit well into the mechanics of the risk-reward gameplay of corruption. While I’m not a biggest fan of extrapolation from content to make a gameplay element fit, finding a way something like that could be lore-bound doesn’t really seem too crazy.
1 Like
1 Like
I am, and always will be in favor of them adding corrupted perks to the other half of attributes. Corrupting grit would solve the current stamina crisis for sorcerers, agility would provide a viable alternative to strength builds befitting a nimble sorcerer, and expertise would provide some equally flavored utility.
In it’s current state, sorcery as a whole could definitely benefit from more additions. Just as long as those additions aren’t fireballs.
2 Likes
I’m not going to lie, if the solution to stamina while corrupted is corrupted grit, that is going to be disappointing to me. That’s going to push sorcerers into a meta tunnel by design.
1 Like
You got me there. Healing has to be “gamified” for the sake of video games. If they didn’t have a way of rapidly regaining health, gameplay would suffer. Lore is a definite consideration but at the end of the day the game is a game.
The way I try to justify it is that there’s some latent magical property to potions and wraps, as the good ones take alchemical base to produce. It’s a thin excuse at best, but it’s all I can justifiably offer.
As much as I’d like to say the realism of waiting several weeks for broken bones to heal is a good idea, I know 99.9% of people would absolutely hate that.
3 Likes
Yes and no. What I’ve proposed before is that they offer a “scaling” perk that reduces attack cost. That way things like dodging or climbing will still be costly for a sorcerer to do. Even with a median of 10 grit, that would be a 25-30% cost reduction to attacks. While not fully back up to what a clean build could do, it still makes a difference.
1 Like
And this is my fear as well. I want each player to have a choice in their preferred playstyle.
It must be gamiefied.
That is 100% accurate.
But it doesn’t have to be done in the way it is.
Changing it now is a horrible idea from a game/business point of view.
But if a fresh start were to happen quick healing could be gated behind corruption.
Corrupted Vitality for the immediately heal back a portion of damage.
Consuming tinctures, not of aloe, but of demon blood or doing a line of powder of corruption, could healing even as it taints.
Suddenly there is a real incentive to look at corrupted builds, lower max HP, but it comes back faster could be a balance point, depending upon other factors.
And it fits with genre that you must always confirm the kill on the dark practitioner.