Bazaar prices getting even more ridiculous

Yeah, the tweet is from 2021, when people regularly called him a trillionaire, despite not having breached the trillion dollar mark. Back then, his net worth was somewhere around $340 billion or so. Now it’s $230.9 billion. The word “trillionaire” is not precise, even though people still throw it around to this very day, but the math is the same. :man_shrugging:

Conan Exiles playerbase.

And I sincerely doubt they’re engaging any slice of the so-called community on any of the available channels the way they used to do before.

But here we are, both of us with our doubts, neither with the solid facts to back them up :wink:

And I wonder whose job it would be to try to keep the forums the way they used to be… :roll_eyes:

At this point I expect someone will jump in and accuse me of bashing the community managers – which I’m not, but good luck explaining that. Or worse, there will be more of this “no wonder they’re not engaging their players, just look at you all” gruel.

I’m tired of explaining that a company is not a person. At this point, there’s nothing I can say to bring that fact home to the people who insist on treating Funcom as just another human being. :man_shrugging:

You’re not. That’s part of what I’m pointing out. Ask yourself what made those topics intriguing. And then ask yourself what could have discouraged people from making those topics. And then follow the responsibility for that change to its source.

Or you could blame the users:

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No we don’t. Codemage, I have known you for years now and wouldn’t put you up against Musk because of one thing. You are significantly worth more to me than he is. He is part of the faceless billions that is only recognizable because he had to pay for his cred and not earn it.

Some people do value money above all else and look up to those that have it. I don’t associate with those folks because they have their priorities screwed up.

Now don’t get me wrong, money is needed and the more money you have, the less dependent on others you are. However, I suspect that our interdependency is what makes us better, as individuals and as a society.

Nope. They leverage themselves into a legal monopoly and use governmental corruption as means to secure dominance…sometimes squashing better ideas and products in the process. No socioeconomic system has ever provided a solution to this as greed sets in and you only change one owner of production with another.

You lost me. How does a god fit into wealth distribution? Regardless, wealth distribution is unfair. But how do you determine what is equitable? Should doctors make more than plumbers? Should teachers make more than powerline operators?

Is it any better if the money is “public” but only a handful of elites get to use it and you and I are still SOL?

Simple. You thought the ignorance of the masses were because there was a lack of information available. When in reality, it was always self inflicted and people are actually happier with not knowing and stressing over these matters. In the end of the day, I question whether they were right as the only thing that truly matters is the day 2 day wins you have daily. If you wake up to face a new day, you are off to a good start.

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Thanks, but that’s not what I mean by “the society”. Whether we like it or not, “the society” is more than just the sum of its parts, and while those parts might be people like you and me, who hold a certain esteem for each other, it’s the difference between the sum and the whole that changes the picture here.

I appreciate your kind sentiments, but if there’s a round of massive layoffs across the industry tomorrow and I become one of thousands of people desperately scrabbling to get a job, any job, and not succeeding, those kind sentiments won’t pay for my health insurance.

Money doesn’t buy you happiness, as Sera67 pointed out, but it’s what keeps you alive in this society, and your ability to deploy your money is supposed to reflect your worth to the society.

Or at least, that’s what that same society is teaching our kids.

Precisely. And they exploit others to achieve that.

I’m not looking for a solution here, nor am I trying to present one. I am simply answering the implied question in @Croms_Faithful’s post: how come I’m so sure you can’t become a billionaire without exploiting a bunch of other people?

My apologies. The “Invisible Hand” I refer to is not an actual deity. It’s the metaphor Adam Smith used to explain why capitalism is supposed to Just Work™, and is nowadays being used to deflect criticism of capitalism.

Good questions. Here’s a better one: why should one person make more money each minute than a plumber makes in a month?

Remember, we’re talking about billionaires.

That depends. Do you and I still get to achieve the same things we can achieve right now? If the answer is “yes”, then it’s clearly neither better nor worse, it’s the same thing.

Don’t throw bogeyman stories at me. They were fun, briefly, when I was a teenager and had a friend who could invent the most ludicrous bogeyman stories for the entertainment of the whole summer camp, but they’re nowhere near as entertaining now. :wink:

The point I was making shouldn’t be controversial: while it’s true that it’s not money itself that causes the suffering, it’s also true that there are certain levels of wealth that you can’t amass without causing significant suffering to others. And yet here I am, indulging my Inner Quixote to try to make that point. :man_shrugging:

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Here’s an even better one. Why shouldn’t they? :wink:

Picture this. I start a business, I sell my wares for a decent sum more than it costs me to make or buy. I pay my people $10/hr for $7/hr work (or equivalent ratios depending on what they’re doing) and put an emphasis on good customer service. I use my profits to open a second store and do the same thing. Then a third and a forth. Eventually I’m earning a billion dollars a year spread out across hundreds of stores all over the world, creating thousands of jobs for other people and offering quality services that didn’t exist before in many areas.

Why shouldn’t I be allowed to keep and spend that money how I see fit? Have I really not contributed to society in your mind?

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Ooh, I got an even better one! What if you open a toy factory at the North Pole to make toys for kids all over the world and distribute them once a year? :wink:

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.


In case the meaning is somehow still not clear, you’re presenting an idealized scenario that doesn’t exist in our society as it is.

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Which sector is your billion-dollar idea targeting?

Is it Word Processing? In this case, you’re putting a lot of what we used to call “secretaries” out of work. Spreadsheet? That junior bean counter was just replaced by a $279 program. We called them programs back then.

Consider your creation of a suite of invoicing, payment and business tools that grant unforseen access to financial power, almost overnight causing a crash in the value of bank labor. That’s a lot of people in the sector forced to look for work elsewhere, because in the words of the great Macho Man Randy Savage one company decided to be “very, very selfish.”

How does this relate to the Bazaar? We in business must always be guarded. Without any corporate selfishness we fail, with too much, we harm people. Actual harm.

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You mean the point of accusations without proof or evidence? That their end result of excessive wealth is automatically a guilty verdict that they wronged others? If it’s that easy to decide who is bad, what is the specific number of fiscal worth that you automatically assume evil was performed? Is it just at 1 billion or are there some number in the millions that turned them to the dark side?

This! This is what needs to be promoted more. Not a regulation or anything like that but true understanding of the precarious situation we all live in. Our economic systems are just as fragile as the ecosystems and unfettered selfishness can crash it all down.

This entire conversation reminds me of Mage: The Ascension TT RPG and in particular the Convention called the Syndicate. For those that are not in the know, mages are humans that can alter reality itself. However the paradigm (global and localized belief of what is real) can fight the against your magical abilities. Each school of “magic” has it’s paradigm of how to make things work. Well back in the day, a group of mages decided to combine and make their magic work. They went out and changed to paradigm ( the Renaissance) to ensure they can do their things at the cost of all other magic users able to do theirs. So what was born was the Technocracy in that bureaucracies, space travel, robotics and cybernetics, and money all ruled and the idea of witches, wizards, mystic monks, etc fell out of practice. Well to bring it back into focus, the group that handled money, the Syndicate, had the best take on their system. ‘You don’t believe its magic? We print cloth with a pattern that drives the entire world to wishing to obtain it. It fuels people with the desire to get out of bed and do something they hate. People will literally kill each other for enough of these pieces of cloth. Hell we are even moving away from requiring the pieces of cloth anymore and it’s just digits in cyberspace that literally makes the world move. You don’t believe in magic? Sure you do. You just don’t want to admit it’

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Well it’s common sense. You have an item that people want or need you can set the price to whatever you want within limits. It’s all about supply and demand. To figure that all you had to do was pay attention to things like the Epipen lawsuits and congressional hearings.

I’ve been wondering when someone was going to try the continuum fallacy.

The modern history is littered with evidence. As I’ve already admitted, I lack the time and the skill to prepare it and present it properly, but that doesn’t matter, does it? If you understand that their wealth is, as you put it, excessive, but you still feel the need to defend billionaires, despite plenty of shining examples of their wrongdoings, then no evidence anyone could present would be “proof” you would be willing to accept.

In the end, both of us are throwing what we consider “common sense” at each other and neither has the clothes to put on their emperor. You can vaguely wave your hands at all the marvels of the modern society and feel you’re right, and I can vaguely wave my hands at all the unnecessary suffering this progress has inflicted and feel I’m right.

Reminds me of Louis CK’s “of course, but maybe” skit:

It’s humor, so we feel we can laugh and shrug it off, but good humor is like that: it holds up a mirror to our society. Too many people are willing to accept that whatever suffering was inflicted to bring us progress, it was justified, as long as it’s not their suffering we’re talking about. Plus, it’s in the past, it’s already done, why bother questioning it? We’re not like that anymore, obviously. :roll_eyes:

Just like every human starts as a baby, then grows into a child, then an adolescent, and finally into an adult – and hopefully a decent adult – so I think it is with the humanity. Right now, we seem to be in the adolescent phase, young as a species, but convinced that we’ve reached the pinnacle of our own development. We’ve discovered the best way to be and that’s it. Whenever someone questions that, we throw out big words like capitalism and democracy, and reassure ourselves with the platitude that it doesn’t matter if it’s not perfect, because it’s the best we can do.

Despite the fact that teenagers are prone to reckless risks, I still hope we’ll make it through our adolescence and get to grow up into an adult society.

so i promised not to involve myself in any of the political discussions, as it is so far off topic and the OP has kind of state they aren’t interested. so i’ll not wax philosphic. or maybe i will. your observation of humanity as being the adolescent phase brings to my mind a great lyric from the punk band Dillinger Four.

“Now that you’re 21, you’ve got a lot to prove. Look back on better times, then f*ck off til 22.”

on can hope that once our species recovers from our current college hangover, we will grow up enough to stop f*cking off. :slight_smile:

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Gosh, you’re totally right. We shouldn’t do anything that could potentially eliminate jobs that rely on inferior or obsolete products. I guess that’s why we still have a thriving buggy whip industry today, right? Oh, wait… :roll_eyes:

You did miss the entire forest of my point it seems, for the trees. Please forgive my attempt to Barnes-splain my own poast: my intent was to illustrate how this phenomenon isn’t anything new (I’m harking back to the 90s with the Word/Excel), yet in that example I saw with my own eyes how that software often became the arbiter of one’s continuation of work. But the attrition truly happened gradually.

I’m contrasting it with the rise of payment mechanisms that acted like we are Pals, and very viciously impacted many strata of several financial sectors, almost overnight. There are graceful ways, moral ways and there are greedy ways.

And I’m not being saucy about this last part, but in my Equine-heavy western town, there are two places to buy full buggy rigs, and whips. They have a considerable catalog from many makers. I only know because we have horses that we no longer ride who need goodies like fly masks and halters. I don’t cotton to whipping a horse (whether with the crack or the hit) myself, but am powerless to stop those who resort to one for their perceived safety or control.

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Ahh Tu Quoque. Curious you only presented three possible structures of governance. And you know what, I would be happy to dicuss the merits, failings, and which sucks the hardest of the three with you…in a PM. It is against the forum guidelines to discuss politics :point_down:, and there are literally thousands of places you can discuss it emanating from every stinking recess of the internet.

“Keep it focused. Please don’t post about real-world politics, religion”

Furthermore, I want members here on the forum to judge others and their ideas based on their interactions with others, and the potential of their proposed ideas concerning the game. Not to have connotations of those members based on their political or systemic leanings. People are here to discuss the game, and what is in its best interests moving forward. Not to berate others for their belief systems or debate governing dynamics. My “reaction” was to the following.

Well for one there are no trillionaires in the world. But more to the point, I do not abide people creating unfounded sweeping generalisations, denoting every single person within a specific demographic of quote “exploiting the f*ck out of everyone”, without a shred of proof beside an anecdote, conjecture, and some random guys social media post from 2021. You could make the same claim of any age grouping, race, gender, sexual orientation, or faith, and it would be equally as bad and reductionist. I am not saying it has never occurred before, but I am saying that not all wealthy people are heartless monsters, and that as @Glurin has asserted, integrity and decency still exists in business; just because you don’t see it on the macro level, that does not mean it no longer exists.

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This is one of the few parts of your post I can agree with. So for that reason I did not wish to lump it with the rest of my reply. I can emapthise with this. And you know what, back when I was a kid, I dreamed of having a robot butler that would mow my lawns and push my kid on a swing, like on the intro of Beyond 2000 by now. But the sad truth is that reality does not always unfold the way we conceptualise, especially when from a sci-fi standpoint. :pensive:

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Wow, there’s a show I used to love watching. The good old days.

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Isn’t this thread supposed to be about the Black Lotus Bazaar pricing?

It still is. There’s stuff on the bazaar that costs Beyond 2000 Crom Coins. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Hello,

We have received several flags on this post. After checking, it seems like the conversation is derailing and not following the original post’s topic.

For this reason, this thread will be closed, but if you still wish to discuss the original topic, please make another post.

Thank you for understanding.

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