when its comes to the atmosphere on forum it both funcom and us players
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trust me the issue we are seeing involves way more than the forums, you can see the issues at steam, reddit, even content creators has beenâŠcritical (the independent ones of course)
there are issues that needs handling, this is where i have a bit of hope CEA might be able to get some improvements i dont hold my breath to it, but it is certainly the best shoot we got at it. nothing has worked so far, do hope they are able to do what none of us idenpendently has been able to accomplishâŠ
keeping silence, and doing nothing does not help either⊠so what exactly do suggest we do? please tell me something we have not done before.
who is the one to blame for the "well charged negative mood? why is it charged that way? has funcom done anything to help solve it? hint, keeping silence only makes things worst.
do hope you can respond the question i left open to you. i certainly will love to undertand how you feel with how the game is right now. i do value your opinion, and i respect you, (even in disagreement)
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you are not helping at all you have being agressive agianst funcom the last few months and that is not help not at all im not saying we need to be like flowers and best friends with funcom som sometimes we as player can go over the line and all this negative their is on forum is both funcom and us players, but it seems you will not at mid that and see funcom is the fault for everything, when we players allso have a part in it
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you are the one who cant undertand what frustration is and how its builtâŠ
there are no baseless insults or defamation : i only shared that the company has been not competent enough to deal with the problems that has come (the issues are still here), i also said there is issues with QA, there are issues with Beta testing etc. you tell me what is baseless of those issues i have said here.
funny you keep conveniently avoiding to respond to questions i have asked you, do you have a better way to deal with this issues? please share it⊠you are critic of the way i am dealing with things, but you cant provide a alternate way , something we have not tried before. i want to see arguments, and i am not insulting anyone in particular, i am calling off the company for a poor product and updates
players? whaaaat? how is the state of the game our fault? in regards to the state of the product, YES only FUNCOM is the one we can blame , no one else has their hands into the game and the developlemnt and bug fixing process⊠.
i am done with this discussion .
we are on the the blame list too but its not helping say it to you becuse you have so much focus on being so agressive on funcom you dont want to see we have a part in it to, and its not helping to write it down becuse you dont listen
but we are way to off topic now
sent you messages over discord, i dont want to keep going more offtopic. i rather have this discussion privetely.
my closing comment is,. do wish teh best of luck to CEA , do hope the group are able to accomplish thingsd we have not been able to do in years, the group has a good heart, and wish you the best! and if i can help ill do what i can.
apologies for airing (venting) my frustration. i meant every word i said as truthful, i just hate to see the game i love so much in the current state.
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I covered that earlier.
When you say a company is incompetent and provides a poor product. Its a finality. How can an incompetent company become competent when they are too incompetent to do so? Since there was no specifics, its a universality.
If the coding is incompetent its because the people who coded were incompetent, and the ones who assigned the incompetent coders were also incompetent, whom were in turn put in charge by incompetent human resources, which were put in by incompetent executives put in charge by incompetent owners. The only way to fix that is to find a whole other company to do business with if thatâs the mentality people want to have.
Donât take this as an attack, but without specifics, blanket statements do very little but waste time and lead to arguments. Like I said earlier, not all the issues are universal. For example, many of the major issues in Age of Heroes I wasnât able to reproduce. So in that example when people go with these blanket statements on the game, or get vitriolic (not accusing you here) it gets irritating to others who arenât experiencing the same problems either because they arenât seeing them, or because the issues are heavily mitigated by different experiences.
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No Iâll wait to see if a body floats to the top.
As someone who has a very good understanding of the topics you mention, I can tell you that the complaints here are completely justified, and that the demands are not nearly as homogeneous as you are making them out to be.
Yes, there are unreasonable demands to âstop all new development until the bugs are fixedâ, but there are also many other voices and many other demands. For example, there are demands to not release a feature that has been shown during beta test to have several major bugs. Thatâs actually a reasonable demand.
The only context in which a demand like that can be considered unreasonable is if the studio is literally unable to fix those bugs without going out of business. And if that happens to be the case, then you really need no further explanation about why people are throwing the word âincompetentâ at the organization. You can substitute it for âdysfunctionalâ if it will spare someoneâs feelings, but the end result is the same: youâre dealing with an organization that, on the whole, lacks the ability to develop products with acceptable quality.
Except this is not what weâre dealing with, at all. If you havenât been hanging around here lately, I would invite you to go over the bug reports in the Public Beta forum. There were multiple reports of bugs that were known to have high impact at the time of reporting, and are still present in the release.
Asking Funcom to improve the processes and practices they already established is not an unresonable demand, itâs the very minimum.
And thatâs without considering the ample evidence that what Funcom has already established is nowhere near enough. There are multiple bugs that popped up in live, that werenât caught during the public beta, because they could not have been caught in that environment. The public beta servers simply donât have enough constructions and enough concurrent players to produce the kind of load that would uncover bugs that we ended up seeing in live.
Allow me to demonstrate some of that âbasic understanding of software development, including QA and release planningâ that you were demanding by sharing a relevant story.
At my current job, on a project that Iâm leading, we recently caught a bug in the software we building. We caught it by looking over the logs for our performance tests and noticing something out of place. The bug was not a performance bug, but a correctness bug. We fixed it and merged in the fix, but the manager of our group brought up a valid concern: why did our automated correctness tests not catch it? More importantly, do we now have correctness tests that would catch regressions of that bug, and catch other similar bugs?
Long story short, stopping to think about this problem revealed that we have a gap in our testing coverage and that we need to bridge that gap. As an engineer leading that project, I had to work with my teammates and come up with a plan to do that, figure out how much of that plan needs to be prioritized in this project and how much could be left as followup work, and then ask for a 2-week extension for our project. The leadership agreed and weâre delaying the release of the project.
Thatâs how quality development is supposed to work. If you have a critical bug, you fix it before releasing. If you have a gap in your testing coverage and/or capabilities, you work on it and make sure you donât keep repeating the same mistakes in the future.
Those are the 2 cents about âhow it worksâ from someone with âunderstanding of software development, including QA and release planningâ. Take it as you wish.
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I have to agree with you on this. I think that their forced deadlines for their updates are far too short for the scope of their ideas. Their ideas are, frankly, too lofty for the allotted time that they have. I am not saying that aiming high is a bad thing, but they are aiming way too high to be achievable in a realistic manner, at least in my opinion. The idea of the living settlements and the heroes are both good ideas. But 6 months was not nearly enough time for it all to come together. I think that they feel the need to push out MORE and BIG releases but personally, Iâd be happy with smaller releases that were more polished and lead up to the big release at the end of the Age that had the big change (in this case the living settlements) which they had been working on the entire time and have now polished off and is in a far better state.
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I INVITED you to put a correct adjective to their âmisshapsâ but we need to put definitionsâŠ
now read this well :
do you undertand now? or do you need someone else to explain it better for you? again i am challenging you to put the right term to describe what @codemage has said here.
i am NOT attacking someone in particular, but i am in my absolute right to put a tag on a company as a whole for their âinnability to develop a product with acceptable qualityâ. and that tag will remain there until i see changes. as a customer i have the right to judge the product i am paying for, or the product or service i paid for.
this is the core of the issue here. who do we blame ? who do we point our fingers at? it has to be at something or someone, i choose to point as the organization as i have no idea how things works internally but, in the end the quality of the product is there, and is a total disaster! who is accountable? for me the organization, is it for funcom to figure out where are the âdisfunctionalâ people or processes in place to fix it. (using the term disfunctional to not hurt âfeelingsâ âŠ
thats your opinion, now please read again what i quoted from codemage, again what adjective will you add instead of âincompetentâ is disfunctional ok with you?
the bug among other important ones were reported, it was marked as recieved as the rest of em, ⊠and they still push the publish button, i was one who suggested to put more work in to it, and whatever they fixed was never tested in testlive, they just pushed an untested build, that came with most of the problems that was reported, and of course being a new build it came with other bugs we did not saw in testlive.
i can say nothing justifies the current state of the game, and their lack of communication or the lack of proper engagement, for a paid product or service you see people has perspectives and point of views.
i think you should not go into why people play this game, it is not your business, so be kind enough to not go into that territory as you are now turning this into a personal stuff that again it is not your damn businessâŠ
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Youâre conflating way too many different things here.
First of all, letâs separate two important concepts: prioritizing issues and scheduling work. Prioritization informs scheduling, but theyâre not the same thing. Scheduling has to take other concerns into account, such as available resources.
Second, letâs separate the bug report from the bug. A bug is a defect you know your software has. A bug report is a claim that you have a bug. You might need to do some work to verify a bug report before youâre reasonably sure that you have a bug. You might have multiple bug reports for the same bug. A single bug report might end up referring to multiple bugs. But in the end, you will have a list of bugs in your software.
So letâs talk about how bugs are prioritized. Generally, you look at the probability of the bug manifesting, and the severity of the bug when it manifests. The severity should be clear enough from the symptoms. Probability might be hard to work out. If you donât have a reliable repro, you end up having to estimate the probability. Once you have a reasonably good idea about the probability and severity, you assign a priority to the bug.
Two things are important to note here:
- You do not prioritize the bug by whether you know how to fix it or not.
- You should always have enough information to prioritize the bug.
That second bit bear repeating. If you donât know the severity of the bug, then you didnât to the required work when going from bug reports to bugs. If the severity of the bug is trivial and youâre very resource-constrained, then you can get away with assigning it a low priority without even bothering to care about its probability.
But if the severity is high enough and you donât have enough information to even estimate its probability, then you donât get to ignore the bug or lower its priority, because thatâs not how quality development works. Instead, you treat it as high priority, which should hopefully result in scheduling the work to produce the information you need.
One bug? Sure. A handful of bugs in one isolated release? Okay. But are you really saying that a track record of several releases plagued by high-impact bugs is not indicative of a systematic problem?
Yeah, I agree. There are some behaviors on the forums that are completely unacceptable. Thatâs why the forums are supposed to be moderated. In fact, we have several mechanisms and layers of moderation.
When dealing with inappropriate behavior, we have options. We can post a polite reply, like @Kikigirl often does, explaining what was inappropriate about the post and asking to refrain from that. We can flag the post as inappropriate. And we also have moderators in charge of maintaining a certain quality of discourse on the forums.
Instead, what we get are inflammatory and aggressive posts from certain people. Whether those replies are deliberately seeking to derail and shut down discussion or not, thatâs what they end up doing.
I agree it doesnât give you the right to attack the developers. But it does give you the right to say that the organization is incapable of producing acceptable outcomes. Since thatâs a mouthful, people will tend to shorten it to âincompetentâ. I prefer âdysfunctionalâ, because that makes it clear Iâm talking about the organization, rather than the people who comprise it.
And given âthe current state of knowledgeâ, I have no doubt that Funcom is a dysfunctional organization.
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premiun stuff, thank you @CodeMage !
i can say they seems to prove their lack of competence to produce an acceptable product, which is in definition what incompetence is, again nothing agains anyone in particular, but the company itself . it needs changes for sure, i do hope that this changes comes in the near future.
i have no problem on changing my opinion of the organization, when they start showing , (better communication and better overall support, (fixes, better qa and better beta testing) and more engagement. as it used to be several years back.
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i would also like to apologize for me being so passionate about it, i get heated up, i know i am not a delicate person in nature, i tend to be extremely direct , and even a bit hard on things, (style)
@Kikigirl you keep the good work with CEA.
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that is all very fine, but we are not talking about not known bugs. Some where from before the chapter and a lot were highlighted on testlive.
Same as with the âhotfixâ that didnât fix much, but somebody desided to keep living settlements on, alienating the player base even more.
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Ok I stopped reading after 130 ish. Quick question.
How is this any different than these official forums where all CE fans can join and get dev input? What will make this⊠privatized community any different than the one already established?
This one also has a question.
Who is still playing this game?
If you would please,
For no longer playing the game
For still playing the game exceptâŠ
For those who still play, but will only play on modded servers.
Also, for purposes of this inquiry, whether one still plays or not will be noted as has played since the Age of Heroes dropped.
If the last loggin was sometime in Age of War or before, thatâs a
Oh, and 
for not playing but still refreshing in the hope of playing at some point in the future.
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Poor @Harperson 
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Does it count as still playing if âplayingâ is setting up a new modded server (with living settlements off)? 
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im still playing the game and i love the settlement and hope they fixing the problems before the holiday end next month
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