Discuss: Rules about Walls and Villages

Conan Exiles General Discussion
133

Well, this is 100% true. With no building limits period, it is impossible to create a system that won’t ultimately collapse. I’m just saying that I find it perfectly reasonable to put in a very high hard cap to keep people from over-abusing the system. As an example: if FC has made it clear that they want people to not take up expansive land claim (which I–as a player–would consider anything more than about 1/4 of a map square). How many building pieces can a person fit in that space? 1 million? 10 million? In terms of regular gameplay these numbers are astronomical, but it would make sense to have a hard limit of something like 400K-500K+. Literally no player or clan that uses anywhere near that amount of building blocks is being considerate to other players.

Here’s my calculus (source) for that number. A map square is somewhere close to 180 foundations across (an in-game equivalent to roughly 360 meters). To fill 1/4 of a map square entirely with foundations 1 block high would take about 8,100 foundations. If you were to make a massive square box 6 blocks high that takes up 1/4 a map square you would use about 48,600 foundations. If you made this monstrosity most players and admins would not appreciate it. However, I have made MASSIVE and gorgeous bases (taking up about the same or larger footprint) with less pieces than that. Even if you double that amount to be generous and say 97,200 foundations and then double it again to be EXTRA generous (194,400 building pieces) and then double it AGAIN for TWO massive bases on a single server you’re at 388,800. No Player needs more than 400K building pieces for ANY reason on an official server aside from trolling and claim spamming.

All of that said, I have never been in favor of arbitrary block limits. There are far more elegant solutions for tackling the fair-play, claim spam, and overbuilding issue.

As an addendum. I have heard some people say that making RP bases on PvP servers is a waste of time. But I would like to point out that RP villages are actually BEST used in PvP, as you can hide beds, kits, workbenches, vaults and God Traps throughout your RP village to protect the heart of your base. A lot of people that build like this in PvP push the land claim back and create walls to help prevent peeps from summoning an Avatar on your doorstep–which is absolutely devastating. I point this out to note that on PvP these buildings CAN serve a strategic purpose (a.k.a. function). So It should be seriously noted and considered that PvP and PvE should both be considered here–as PvE players cannot remove other player’s landclaim, wheras in PvP removal of land claim with raid tactics is a viable part of the game’s mechanics and strategy).

The core problem with players building huge is this: Gods are powerful but have a hard counter. The only counter to bomb damage is to fight (online) or placing more building pieces. (offline)

And also, as a last word. I don’t think claim is as big of a problem in PvP as it is in PvE. If a player wants a building spot that is taken… well then they should take it :wink:

1 Like
134

@Taemien I still believe that siege damage in general (excluding trebs) needs to be reduced. However, I think you have made very good points. Offline raiding IS the real problem.

1 Like
135

Yeah that webbing example isn’t coming from PVE, that is straight up PVP tactic to ensure trebs can’t be built. There was and still is significant land claim issues in PVP. I logged into a server and the alpha took out all the normal good spots with land claim…enough that would require over 300 explosive jars to get rid of it…assuming I do since there is always residual in the undermesh but that is a totally separate topic because there are times I have built into the mesh by accident and there is no way to remove it.

And typical PVP motto…if a little is good, then a lot is better which is why we are seeing changes in the company view points (like fence stacking). Five doors using inherent geometric differences between isosceles triangles and squares with the same side length isn’t a big deal but it is very exploitive to do over 100 of them. If there was a way to code building discretion in the game can have 5 but no more than five in that stack, that would be ideal over just banning it (essentially building nerf).

I think the enforcement is more weighted against PVE because of the temporary nature of PVP. Stuff comes and stuff goes. We are used to getting wiped and restarting from scratch again. We have had that moment and are now over it. PVE crowds have a much harder time with letting their builds and stuff go as I learned from this whole endeavor.

136

This is the core of my argument. Also, notice how Trebs aren’t mentioned? That’s because they’re clunky and hard to use, especially when bombs do their job better.

2 Likes
137

This. A block limit can’t remove the need to moderate overbuilding via TOS, unless it’s low enough to cripple legitimate building. There are many different, better implementations, but they’re far from trivial.

You’re right that it doesn’t originally come from PVE servers, and that it’s quite uncommon there, but I’ve seen it a few times over the years. Most of the times it was just a case of people coming from PVP to PVE and building crap like that so nobody can get close. Once or twice, it was a way to connect two bases to have the same refresh timer, and the people who did it didn’t realize they could remove the connections.

It definitely doesn’t belong on PVE. I might not be 100% convinced whether Funcom should moderate overbuilding in general, but this? I can definitely get behind removing claim webs on PVE(-C), with extreme prejudice.

1 Like
138

Heck I say webbing is bannable in any type of game because there is no legit reason to do it. People that do it are purposely being an @$$ and should be treated as toxic.

2 Likes
139

I 've seen a lot of people training in pve servers for pvp buildings. It was so obvious. I am really happy officials won’t be this way anymore. I remember my self training to build for pvp in my single player mode, I never understood why they spend hell hours of grinding to be trained for pvp in pve servers.

3 Likes
140

I would counter that and say building trash bricks are a waste of time because you are flat out admitting that the building doesn’t matter and yet you do it. If building matters, make it distinctly yours. Back in the day, the entire server knew what I built vs my fellow clanmates. I had a unique style back then and it shined in every single build I did…like a theme. Its the one big thing I miss from the old days prior to stealth building.

However the explosive issues still remain because they are easy to make so a full wipe of it all is what is standard now…blow it up and see if there is anything hidden. On active PVP servers you see skeletons of bases,not just blown out doors, remaining.

141

Crafting mats when offline. Solo offline play is a very very long game. You need a server to keep the game running so your mats continue to get produced.

And yes I understand that you can admin panel things into solo games but apparently they dont.

1 Like
142

True, that’s why you have admin mode m8, you have to grind nothing, you just go and fix pilots of buildings and then coop so a clan m8 will come to your single player, out of clan now to test the weaknesses of your build :man_shrugging:. Crafting a base for pvp is way more challenging than building for other modes. It needs a lot of thought and planing.

1 Like
143

This is off topic for the most part, but I wanted to share a story related to @erjoh’s post. A few months ago, our clan got attacked by another clan from a different server. Due to (a completely deserved) admin wipe of our clan leader’s volcano base and subsequent banning, we had 2 weeks to think stuff over. A few days later, I booted up an alt character and started scavenging through the remains of my old base when I noticed someone completely unrelated to the war had gotten blown in.

Turns out that these guys were using some of the same building techniques that I did and the raiders thought that their base was my alt account. Their base was a nicely laid out castle with circular towers and a nice perimeter wall. The raider’s thoughts went something like “no one builds with circles on a PVP server aside from Rekt” and blew a large hole in the side. We laughed about it later

1 Like
144

You don’t have to tell me. I spend hours just initializing a base to make sure it levels at the right spot and my design works.

2 Likes
145

That’s kind of why I used the word “scale” rather than “size”. Size implies it’s all about how many blocks wide or tall something is, and that’s not really what I was getting at. Scale is a little more nuanced and leans more toward relative function and practicality.

Like if you look at the example images of walls that are out of line, you’ll notice that they encompass rather large areas that are just empty of any structures and could easily be pulled in a fair bit while still performing the same defensive function. Same goes for the smaller buildings. Many of them could be moved or consolidated so there’s not quite so much space between them.

Or if we go back to the public map room example, why would all of your map rooms that serve no other purpose than public transportation require a grand cathedral to be built around it?

That’s what I mean by the general idea of castles and villages being okay. You’ve got yourself a blacksmith shop and a woodworker shop and a leather working shop, etc. etc., ok fine. But you’re going overboard when you’ve got a grand temple to each profession with empty tool sheds all around it and a three bedroom house for each individual member of every thrall’s family.

2 Likes
146

My question is how are bombs’ damage when you have to actively raid (meaning you have to get in range of an axe to place them) and if Trebs can be placed regardless of landclaim?

I would like those two issues fixed before messing with bomb damage. And definitely before any sort of idea of building limits (this isn’t in response to what Rekt responded with). I’m not opposed to building limits as I enjoy being granted extra settings as a server admin. But let’s take it one step at a time.

1 Like
147

I tried to read the entirety of this thread, but I lost my way in some of the derailment, so apologies if someone has already raised the following: i.e. the elephant wearing the hot pink leotard dancing suggestively on the dinner table, whilst vaping whimsical creations of her favourite furries into the middle of the room.

I remember when this game not so long ago, (around a year or so ago), was basically do what you want and let the local server population work it out, (obviously within reason, blatant cheaters should never be tolerated).

I am honestly at a loss with the seemingly dwindling population, (just my observations, I have no hard facts and I am very well aware of how cyclic the Conan population can be), that we are now discussing as to whether maprooms should be bannable or building a non-functional creation on a hot-spot or someone’s favourite building spot should also be bannable. When and where does this end? Do we just police everything out of the game under the guise of “server performance” or “prized land”?

A pretty old and die-hard SGI engineer was once asked what’s the fastest way to draw a polygon and he replied, (while shooting at neighbours walking past his yard), the fastest polygon you ever draw is the one you decide not to draw. So I guess we could apply this adage to Conan as well, i.e. if no one is ever allowed to build anywhere then the server performance will always be tip-top and the prized land locations will always be available.

Elephant go RAAAW!

4 Likes
148

@Yup
I need to understand here if you may. Your opinion for freedom in the official server game is that I will build wherever I want, whatever I want, the size I want?
I beg you not to take this question offensive, thank you.

149

I can concede that point. Changing the first three issue I have with bombs ( placing, crafting, and detonating) may very well fix the imbalance without touching the bomb’s damage. If bombs remain too strong even after the first three issues are dealt with, then perhaps looking into damage adjustments would be next.

1 Like
150

If we cut away the rhetorics about “someone’s favorite building spot” and such, you pose a perfectly valid question that boils down to what goal should Funcom have with their official server moderation.

Those of us who asked for moderation initially, asked for help with griefers and cheaters. On PVE(-C) side of things, griefers would often use the building system to harass other players without any in-game recourse: if someone encircled your base with no-climb walls, there was nothing you could do about it. On PVP side of things, undermeshing and other forms of cheating were rampant.

That was what we wanted from Funcom. When the first version of the rules was announced, it sounded like we were getting that and more, but “more” looked reasonable and we trusted that it wasn’t going to cause problems.

I could go over the rest of the history, but the long and the short of it is that it indeed ended up causing problems, and now here we are, trying to get Funcom to clarify and maybe even change the rules.

From their recent clarifications of the rules, it seems that their goal is not merely to do away with griefing and the most egregious forms of overbuilding, but rather to moderate for equity. Should they do that? I don’t know. It doesn’t sit well with me, either, because it doesn’t look like they can provide the same level of service a private server can.

But more than “should they do that”, I’d like to ask “How do you propose to change it?”

In the end, they steer their decisions based on their own data and their own vision. So far, it hasn’t propelled the game into the same kind of fame as Rust or ARK, but the long term trend on Steam Charts shows a cyclic pattern of peaks, valleys, and overall growth.

What I’m trying to say is: they’ll do what they want to, and it’s usually hard to convince them otherwise. How exactly do you propose we should change their mind in this case?

3 Likes
151

I believe what he is trying to say is the enforcement on official servers is going a bit far after a long period of not caring. I have to agree the whole conversation about map rooms gets me a bit riled up. Every clan should have the right to put a enclosed map room at obbs on pvp official servers. It is simply needed to get around the map. I say enclosed because pvp can get toxic so for instance if i am running for my life and the chaser picks up his map right as I try to escape. Im am dead. ( maybe if by default the map rooms were there that would help). My clan is currently on exiled and built on one of dagons docks. We have a simple wall around the one dock where our base is. Is this bannable? I’ve read all the threads and still don’t know what is to much. Yes im sorry to bring it up again.

5 Likes
152

@Boobie.
Pvp gaming needs your kind feedback, thank you for replying, I hope you’ll get your answers m8 :+1:t6:.