Feedback: Stamina System changes invalidate light & medium armor

Several people have mentioned the unintended changes to weapons as making the game too generic, leaving everyone basically fighting with the exact same weapons with the exact same stats, just with different pixel shapes. Honestly, I’m getting a very similar impression with the new stamina system.

Based on what I’ve seen in playing on the Testlive client, there is now exactly ZERO reason to fight in light or medium armor. Maybe–MAYBE it has use if you’re out farming, but for actual gameplay and fighting, there is now zero reason to choose light or medium over heavy. With stamina costs all being the same, and regen being so fast, there’s basically no meaningful stamina management in combat. Moreover, the only remaining difference between these armor types is their roll speed, but with the invulnerability timer doubled, even heavy armor makes it very easy to roll out of any danger in all PVE and most PVP situations.

Firespark81 does a great breakdown in his latest video called “Stamina Regen Changes Comparison Conan Exiles 2020 Testlive Update 2.2”

What we see in all of these cases that he demonstrates is that when it comes to picking armor, you only have 2 choices to make:

  1. How much other stuff do I want to carry?
  2. How much damage do I want to not take?

That’s it. End of list.

If this were Rust and the whole world reset itself every month, then the added cost of constructing heavy armor would have some impact in what we’d choose, but that’s a complete non-issue after only a week or two of play. Before moving this change to live, there REALLY needs to be consideration given to how to differentiate armor types, or suddenly, what is the point–AT ALL–in picking up something other than heavy armor? I really don’t like the idea of having my choices taken away from me, let alone 2/3 of the armor taking up space in the game files suddenly being useless. The flavor of armor was already pretty flat, but this is just going to wipe out any hint of choice. Something needs to be done to differentiate between light, medium, and heavy armor other than their own weight, and roll times. Some possible directions to go:

  • Lower heavy armor durability by a LOT. It’s bigger and covers more of the body, so it’s getting more hits, and it’s more complicated, meaning that it takes more upkeep to maintain it. This would translate into a lower durability, not higher, and adding some maintenance costs to the considerations of whether or not to wear it (might) help with balance.

  • Give a damage and/or armor penetration boost to characters wearing medium and light armor. The people aren’t so restricted in their movements wearing these armors, so it’s easier for them to deliver harder, more precise hits. in PVP, this keeps heavy armor feeling much more tanky, and lets light and medium matter more for PVE targets.

  • Leave armor class stamina penalties in combat, but not climbing. Each piece of armor worn, not the highest class, determines the added cost of attacks. Light armor adds +1 per piece worn, Medium adds +2, and Heavy adds +3. Suddenly, it makes more sense to do something like hybridizing and mixing armor sets to find what works best for you, so you have the right blend of protection and stamina management.

But, whatever you do, for the love of Crom, please Please PLEASE do not go this direction. Let light and medium armors matter.

(Also, and this is a MUCH smaller consideration: It breaks the lore. Seriously. In all of Howard’s works, Conan himself only took up heavy armor, I think, four times. In almost none of the writings and very few of the art were other characters ever clad in heavy armor, let alone head-to-toe plate armor. Can we at least pretend we’re still paying homage to Howard’s works?)

7 Likes

I bought the game for fun, but this is just diminishing the fun. Too many nerfs.

I can see craftable light armor becoming the norm for those that want out of the new temperature ranges on armor. Light armor would, however, take up less weight and ingredients to make.

2 Likes

Funcom said they changes much for combat but there is mostly going to be additional changes as the game gets to 3.0 so this is a first step in which there will be more in terms of combat so I will wait till last of combat changes are made before I judge them

I vote for her suggestion … the 2nd one makes the most sense. I would like to add this make heavy armor able to negate most blows but crippling attacks are much more potent to used against. For instant if I hit you with a crippling legs then instead of you taking a small 10 % move speed reduction you take 35% in move speed reduction … tanks should be tanky but also less mobile and they would need to have more strength to up hold it .

2 Likes

The decreased carry weight versus light armor dying in 2-3 hits versus heavy armor being able to just stand there and enjoy the tickles from an enemy also diminishes fun. Why even load the game assets for light and medium armor, if the only one that matters is heavy?

That’s why I’m saying Funcom needs to do something to differentiate between and balance the armor types. With this change, 2/3 of the game’s armor may as well go right out the window–not to mention the time taken to design it. Why pay developers to keep making light and medium, if the game itself makes them useless?

All around, the stamina changes becoming armor-agnostic are a bad move in my view.

3 Likes

Sounds like I need to get onto testlive and check out the changes.

2 Likes

According to Firespark, yu now have less stam regen the heavier the armor is.

That’s correct. You do–technically–have less regen, the heavier your armor is. The difference, though, is between 1-4 frames of the video. About 15ms, total. So while yes, technically, it’s slower, it’s less time than it takes to swing a weapon. It’s no meaningful difference, at all.

The above-mentioned video, the only part that makes any difference in how long it takes to regen is when your total weight carried starts getting higher, and then at 99% encumbrance, the difference between light and heavy armor is about 1 second. It’s not until your character is fully overloaded at 100%+ that you see a marked difference in regeneration, with the spread changing up to 4 seconds.

So, again, unless you somehow trick an enemy player into going into a fight with a completely full inventory, there is zero meaningful difference between armor types, and all gameplay would find it objectively advantageous to take the highest possible armor rating.

4 Likes

So Mre, Ms Jones has 50 in encumbrance.
Now she will lose stamina the more she carries.
I would not want to be in FUncoms shows when she finds out.

@Hyborian_Jones - and there’s also the point that you now cannot roll while over-encumbered - I haven’t yet checked how that applies with 50 Enc perk - I’ll add that to today’s list of things to test.

Edit: Under the new system (at least currently) with 50 in encumbrance it is still possible to roll when over-encumbered. I presume that’s intended, but at this point who knows.

2 Likes

I’ve had a chance to do some more testing, particularly after Firespark’s new video where he shows that Light + Shield is superior in regeneration to Heavy + Shield. Even in this video, where he’s showing the “huge” difference in play between the two styles? Heavy is still clearly superior. Light + Shield is only valuable versus a single target. The damage mitigation from high armor ratings and very high stamina regeneration still leave heavy armor as a clear, objective winner. Heavy armor is superior in all situations, except in one edge case where light can slightly edge out heavy armor.

This isn’t balance, Funcom. :frowning: Nowhere near it, and you’re basically wasting the time of your own people who have designed light or medium armor. Why even have the two classes in the game if they’re clearly inferior? It’s certainly not a progression from light into heavy. These changes need to be reconsidered.

1 Like

Yeah i think You have point there. I also this that light and medium needs more love otherwise its useless.
Good luck fighting someone in light / med vs heavy. But also we need to fix horse combat op.

3 Likes

I too would like to see Light and Medium armors as more viable options.

Prior to these TestLive changes (and the temperatures changes a few patches ago), I always felt like there were only two choices, Light, or Heavy. Medium armor felt pointless then.

I was looking forward to a patch where each category of armor would have its place.

Now, however, it seems like we can choose any of the best armor we want, as long as its’s Heavy, Heavy, or Heavy.

Please provide distinct disadvantages to Heavy Armor flexibility and mobility, such as reductions in dodge, reductions in climbing, and perhaps even more stamina drain while running.

Please also provide distinct advantages for light armor in the opposite end of things. And please, find a way to make Medium armor viable and desirable.

3 Likes

Hey there,

Thanks for the feedback, our team is looking into it and evaluating it for possible future fine-tuning.

5 Likes

Thank you, @Ignasis. We’ve been working hard on building our server, the community, and making a great environment to play in. Already, we’ve seen two players quit, and others are nervously watching TestLive. Faith is shaky for a lot of folks, and this seems to be one of those back-breaking straws for the camels. I really hope the devs find a different way to address this, or can wait a tick on the update until something a little more balanced comes along.

Thanks again, Boss. We appreciate you!

We’ve added the status about this in our latest build changelog, as a known issue:

3 Likes

This topic was automatically closed 7 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.