True, I meant good for initial pulls, but you’re right they do not tank much otherwise 
the issue with guardian is that the general dps level is just way too low, to the point where you cant regain aggro from a conq or dt once you’ve lost it. That’s what have made the class play the way its played today, pop stall, go full out, and enjoy it untill someone catch up, and then you are out of the game untill you goad.
I remember couple of years ago on TL with a PoA,when we tried to boost guardians damage gradually untill swaps was possible with DT, and the damage output was still way below dt and conq. It wouldnt make it unfair, guardian would still be the lowest dmg dealing tank as it should, but it made tanking way more fun.
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That was before RF, t6 and chaos, even before the 7% critpots. It was somewhat possible to swap with a DT if you had free room to move around the mob for unshielded bonus, and that was the simulation I think, which probably was a bit unrealistic in hindsight. Sadly VoM wasn’t nerfed harder then. Sadly Lightning reflexes was completely overlooked as well (cause I believe this rendition of the feat goes waayyy back to one of the very 1st class revamps after 1.05)
Guard also has no combo direction alternatives in polearm unless you feat storm strike, which is a big weakness as well.
My point being that if you wanted more dps as a tank on guard, polearm should have been the way, even if the increase wouldn’t be that substantial, it would be more… But you can’t since Lightning reflexes and the other evade / immunity feats don’t fullfill their purpose.
Edit: obviously Im in favor of a juggernaut buff too. AoC just has that effect where you accept things as they are 
well the damage increase from t6 and chaos affected dt and conq but not really guard, so shouldnt be any diffrent just that u have to tune it abit higher than our tests on TL.
I would say DT has a similar problem with end feats. Going Hybrid with DT would only work perhaps against a magical boss with CoI/ Chromatic and relying on Gear to have good protection.
PvP excluded since most feat Desecration - Depravity. But truth is, that kind off spec, may be viable for flagboting and it takes most of your time trolling mana with mystical banes while keeping LL buffs up to stay alive.
The only efficient DT PvP spec that makes a difference for dueling Casters and take them out quickly is one with Shadowed Soul and even with Shield, having good critigation/ mitigation first obviously, i believe it’s better if you feat Devouring Blood Frenzy - Guarded Frenzy and Cunning Deflection (Even in its nerfed status). Weapon dmg may not scale but over 30 mitigation in frenzy is a real boost besides we do both types of dmg, plus VoM equivalent buff.
And let Conquerors kill themselves against your CoP with Defensive stance (Confirmed it works).
I still don’t get it why all Soldiers go General tree and DT never does. We too have bubbles anyway and Soul Barrier doesn’t make that much of difference, just less risky till you are focused.
I don’t know how you can say DT never goes general when I gave you the specs I use…
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Oh i meant the usuall spec used in PvP by DT.
You know the hybrid with Soul Barrier. Which is good but depending on wether it’s dueling, or minigame, or open world PvP maybe 2 specs are better. 1 General - Desecration 1 Hybrid.
In PvE i use General Desecration unless the encounter requires a Dread Spec.
Already wrote it couple messages above but it would be more harmful to nerf DTs. Its just so many people who can tank in this game just cos they play that class. If the current day DT wouldnt exist we wouldnt have enough people playing tanks to go around.
and its just about being realistic, frankly the realistic thing would be to not even discuss changes cos its not gonna happen, I think we all know that but we like to discuss the game so we do it for fun. but given its a microscopic chance they gonna do anything, buffing guard requires a lot less work than changing how the dt and conq works.
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- PI was the only feat used on guard? Only in pug minis. STA worked way better on duel, premades.
- Skwer 2k crit? Lamo Did you hit vanir archers? Imagine speccing 2 additional points to get 3s snare boost when the combo has 50s cd
- are you calling me idiot?
- 20k CW crit? Are you sure you’re playing aoc?
If you belive that you’re actually better than anyone else bring your guard and duel me lol. Loser gonna delete his whole account. How about this?
Your whole sentence is written by ignorance that made me laugh. Who are you btw? Are you god of aoc? 
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Thats why guards have really low population. Nobody wants guard as a tank
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yes, and a bad player as well.
No, this crit came from hitting an un-debuffed barbarian on his unshielded side. An extra 3 seconds of 60% snare is significant.
i believe lurvi just posted a video that demonstrates a 1 shot from guardian on a non-debuffed character.
I don’t have a guard on Crom, but anyone that says it’s a bad pvp class is clearly mistaken. The fact you put “guardian” and “duel” in the same sentence demonstrates that you’re basing your opinion on the class on its’ duel performance. I would also never want anybody to delete their characters based on the outcome of a duel.
I can tell you that you’re clearly a bad player with worse mentality
Battle cry 42% buff 10s durtion 45s cd. So it gives to group 9.3% buff in average, after 6 points investigation. Well it can be good or mediocre depends on situation.
Call to arms 11.25% in average only for others. Soloing is also part of game. So its definitely bad. Also its the parent feat of the 70lvl feat. For soloing you gotta spend 5 meaningless points to get it’s child feats.
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Coming from a guy avoiding duel me lmao. But i understand.
2 feat points only for 3s additional snare lol. Well feat is preference. I wont judge anymore. Keep it then
Only 1 buggy case? Thats totally unnormal thats why he uploaded the clip. And its not even close to 20k
Duel is also part of game but thats not even the point. Im not talking about it’s duel performance, its about dueling between us.
You can make 20lv toon to duel me. It doesnt need to be 80lv actually unless you’re afraid of it
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If you would like to play with/against me, I strongly recommend downloading the Fury PvP app. You can find it at pvplevelup.com. I have nearly every class available on Fury - I’d be happy to duel you on any of them, given a t1 gear ruleset.
You’re literally doubling the duration of a CC, without touching the immunity period. With one point, skewer is worse than useless- it’s literally a free CC immunity courtesy of the brain dead guardian who would rather put those 2 points in an additional 6% weapon damage.
This isn’t a buggy case. Look at the buff bar - the guardian has thirst for blood and a myriad of other buffs from their team. You know, those useless buffs you claim only give slight DPS bonuses? Turns out if you stack them, crazy stuff can happen.
If you think this is a ‘buggy case’, you’ve never played a clothy. When a bear shaman or conq finishes debuffing you, and a guardian runs up to you and lands their counterweight, it almost always results in HUGE damage and/or death. There is a reason most teams in the premade tournaments that occurred over the past years had guardians in them.
Why dont you just duel me instead of introducing weird potential spyware?
But Nvm i get your point lmao.
4 sec of snare is not useless if you know when you should snare foes. 3s boost would be nice but not worth to investigate 2 points, especially on near end-feat line, for 50s cd combo. Investigating too many feats on cd’s is not good approach. Its common mistake from not experienced people.
Lmao its totally buggy you can’t produce +12k cw in defensive stance. Also the opponent doesnt even have any debuffs on him.
Lets do simple math. CW’s animation time is around 3.5s. He missed 1 white hit, and assume that the foe had 20% mitigation. So
12000 ÷ 3.5 ÷ 0.95 ÷ 0.8 = 4500
You need atleat 4.5k dps to produce that buggy damage.
Lets say cw had 300dps on itself then you need 4.2k dps on your char. (Dont forget he’s on defensive stance)
x2 blood thirst and few buffs dont provide those humongous dps.
Do you even play guard bro?
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IIRC we did the math and it wasn’t even buggy. Just insanely lucky.
Can you explain me how is worked? For me it seems just buggy
This is not guard dmg check the barb buffs, plus exiles run and crit pots…
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I started to think it might possible if it was crit.
This is my final conclusion for PvE balance.
To balance tanks, we need to balance Conq - Guard, to balance them with DT as well there is 2 ways:
- Replace DT VoM, with an ability similar to Shadowed Soul with added Spell penetration, Magic Dmg buff and it’s anti CCs. Make it something worthy like other class Gold Perks.
This will nerf DT so not much crits right? Well, we can add additional Critical Chance on combos/ feats as other classes have in a similar and balanced level and make bosses respond to dmg for DT as they respond for other tanks as well, by tweaking their ‘‘Protection’’ thus our magic dmg will not over-aggro them.
Many might not agree but if you know how to proc your dmg output this wont be a problem. That’s how every other tank builds dmg anyway.
And boost Guardian dmg as much as necessary and lower Conqueror armor penetration a bit.
Unless we increase spell penetration/ armor penetration after that as well, for the other tanks in a similar level but ‘‘DPS classes will hate us for that’’ so i don’t believe that will be good.
- Boost Guardian dmg. It’s the most simple way.
As for PvP, i can’t reach a final conclusion because of inexperience, so i leave it to those who know better.