Healers need help! An idea to make them better without making them mandatory


#1

I’ve only been playing this game for a relatively short time, but I’m running into a big problem with it: I like playing healers, and I constantly get told that I shouldn’t be playing one. This is pretty annoying, since the game very obviously has multiple classes that are meant to be healers, and tons of gear designed for healing, yet if that’s what you want to do in the game you’re useless most of the time. A big culprit in this seems to be a signet called the Signet of Cruel Delight that for some reason doesn’t have a cooldown and because of that just heals people endlessly while they attack. Even if that was fixed however, way too often you find yourself in situations where you simply don’t need any healing because the enemies just don’t do all that much damage, and everything that is actually dangerous is a one shot you just have to avoid, so once again healing isn’t needed.

I have an idea how healing could be made a lot more useful and welcome in any group without making the game too punishing without a healer however.

The game should add an overheal bar to all characters, called “Anima Overcharge” or something like that, that is the same size as your health pool, and is filled up when you receive healing while you’re already at maximum health. Anima Overcharge is then spent when you attack an opponent, by doubling the damage of your attack, but draining the anima overcharge bar by the extra damage inflicted.

So in effect, all healing that isn’t needed rolls over into damage output for the party, which means healing is always helpful. A healer can even be a significant damage multiplier in a party that is large enough to gain more overall HP from group heals than they would receive from standard damage.

To keep the whole thing balanced and not make self healing into the best way to increase DPS the Anima Overcharge would only apply to healing from external sources. A healer can always solo by just doing anima allocation in this game, so this should be a group feature. Also depending on balance there might be a modifier needed, for example only 75% or 50% of excess healing rolling over into the overcharge bar. It shouldn’t be totally overpowered, but in a group of 5 that doesn’t need healing you should be doing more damage with a healer who generates overcharge than with a 4th DPS.


#2

I hope your idea will fall into oblivion, because it’s hilariously terrible. It just looks like a complicated version of AEGIS shields. Also, you have no idea how sustain tank works, hence your claims about Cruel Delight are void as tanks don’t need this signet to be able to keep themselves alive without healer. It’s not as if there wasn’t a guide about sustain tanking available that explains how that works. I’ll give it to the fact you’re new in the game and jump into complaining too fast.

Also, simple solution to your problem: find a cabal with people accepting to play with healers. Problem solved.

There was a thread about this (even 2 actually) that got locked because it was going nowhere anymore and discussions became stale. I don’t see the purpose of perpetuating yet another discussion about sustain tanking.


#3

He is not blaming your solution for some known issues
he is blaming the game mechanic that makes it valid to use your way

And @Aetrion do yourself a favour do not generalize in here.
ppl are waiting for you to do that so they can tore your post to pieces and focus on the wrong wording ignoring the topic to slient you, they will try to make you mad so you will be violating the forum rules so they can Infom a moderator to delete your post or force them to close the topic cus it is not constructive anymore.


#4

At least this is better than some people who just shouting around “healers are dying” very loudly without doing anything beyond that.
:wink: Suggestions shall be encouraged even disagreement is inevitable.


#5

When I play a healer, I want to be a healer, not a buff bot.

I’m sorry, but I don’t like this idea one bit.


#6

I like the idea of overhealing becoming useful because without that there’s no way for a healer to speed up fights by being the best geared party member, don’t think your way in particular suits this game though, it’s not fun to micromanage healing targets.

Also just by nature in this game a better geared tank needs less healing but there’s currently no benefit to speccing that way, eg. an E8 geared tank doing E5s is just taking less damage than an E5 healer finds challenging to heal.

I only sustain tank if the healer asks me to (otherwise I bring normal tank utilities - lots of impairs/purges - and only high odds of sustaining instead of perfect success rate) but the whole way tanks take damage doesn’t seem conducive to a fun healing experience.


#7

I agree on that, I do stand on both sides, Heal and Tank.


#8

On topic (and off the top of my head), could we not fix the “sustain tanking > all” issue by like, doubling tank health but halving all the “percentage of max health” based self-healing tanks have? Sustain tanking would still mean higher group dps but tank + healer would be less prone to dying from a single mistake. Healers would need to find a group that matches their playstyle of course (unless “healtank” gets added as a role in groupfinder) but surely that would work as a band-aid? Or am I missing something super obvious?

Mod edit: Hey now, watch the personal jabs


#9

The OP did not mention Sustain Tanking at all.
He is addressing the off heal in SWL.

And their is no sustain tank issue
its a heal vs damage from mobs - hp from Tank issue

we discused that some long threads ago


#10

I assume because the OP hasn’t been around long enough to pick up the phrase. Unless you’re suggesting that the reason nobody wants a healer in their group is somehow unrelated to sustain tanking?

Lol, ok mate. Whatever you say. :v:


#11

well it is related but not the issue, it is the symptom, I do not recall the name of the dude, but is Avatar in here is some other dude feeding a monkey, well he is right.

the issue is elite mobs from dung deal to much dmg and heal cant outheal their one kill strikes. If I get all he wrote with one sentence.

and maybe we can try to be reasonable once on this Topic, if we all can agree not to rain on all perades cus its is not 110% the statement we are defending here

I know I was very ambitoned about this Topic and some bad words where spoken, aplologies for that again

but hey lets try to talk about this


#12

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#13

Reducing direct heals and monster damage would probably have a smaller impact on balance overall.

TSW was already kinda on the upper edge of sustained healing being meaningful with it topping out at 2000 damage/sec on 8000ish base hp tanks (you could smooth that out a lot by running 10000+ base hp instead but back to aggro tradeoffs. Highest I managed to hold aggro with was ~15k). SWL’s on E9 is roughly 15000 damage/sec on 21000 hp tanks, which becomes 28300 with the near-mandatory pulverize and then debilitate pushes it to the point the tank can take even 1 hit without mitigation. (which is the point where healing becomes possible… if it’s all 1 shots the tank has to use the sustain build regardless whether group has a healer)

So I think maybe 1/3 as much incoming damage with 1/3 as much direct healing, and the heal builds could really start to distinguish themselves on things other than “enough panic buttons to compensate for when tank doesn’t mitigate”.

I have run E9 with a standard group layout and no tank self-heals but I’m using effective gear for that purpose (which is dps glyphs to hold aggro, tank AA to make healing possible)


#14

:roll_eyes:

some ppl here in Forum have a talent to twist words
stop fingerpointing, ok?

good solution would be to reduce the damage from the elite dungeon bosses so heal can actually try to keep the tank Standing

also make all attacks from boss Mobs burst attacks, so some attacks will glance more often or get evaded

also make deflect or evade valid glyphs for tanking, maybe with fixed prot enhance
+5% migitation for every 15% glance reduction and for 10% evade


#15

I mean, it’d probably be about the same impact on balance overall? Obviously you could do it that way but it’s way more numbers that need changing if you’re tuning every mob at every difficulty level rather than scaling tank health.

:v:


#16

Yeah but you need to double or triple the entire group’s hp to bring encounters into reason anyway (for example HR4 literally does like, 15000 damage to the entire group) so when you’re doing that retuning to make it reasoable you could just set the target at “healers can perform a useful job” instead of “dps aren’t one-shotted at dps allocation”


#17

I don’t disagree that “take the entire game apart and rebuild it from scratch with better numbers for everything, fixing all problems along the way” is a better solution but if wishes were horses, etc. :v:


#18

to do a proper balancing you need time and money . i want devs concentrating in making content that brings ppl in to the game . Everything else will follow . without it what good are rebalancing anyway ? We still dont have all content from TSW transfered . We dont have PVP . Devs do nothing to bring new blood , and ppl asking for nerfs ? ???!!!??


#19

What should happen is Funcom gets around to dealing with a very complex balancing issue that has resulted in many (though not all) tanks deciding to simply do everything themselves. It’s got a lot of moving parts, not the least of which is long-term current customer investment. So I wish them luck in dealing with it, but it’s been so long now that the customer investment part just gets worse every day. They’ve already lost players over it, but in exchange, they keep some. Bad situation for them.


#20

The healing/tanking balance is an issue in need of a real comprehensive solution and extensive look at things, as has been said. This idea is does not address it.

Anima Overcharge as an idea is definitely not useful at high elites. I don’t see why a healer wants to be fumbling with target switching to overheal DPS over the tank, presuming they are still expected to heal the tank, and assuming that you still want to budget your heals for emergencies, because we are first presuming there is not a sustain tank.

Further, doubling a DPS’ damage output, or any significant increase, would immediately lead to massive aggro issues, as holding aggro can be a serious problem for tanks and high end DPS as things are currently.

Finally, because of the kind of damage output a DPS can do, versus the kind of healing a healer can do, I don’t think this overcharge is mathematically viable. You’re still better off as a 4th DPS, because your DPS are going to burn through that overcharge so fast it may as well not exist.

Overall I like the concept to a degree, but its not at all compatible with the current situation of the game. However, TSW and this game lack a serious reason for healers to push healing to beyond what is necessary, and this sort of idea does remedy that, and is something I’d like to see addressed if there is ever a serious rebalancing effort.