Healers need help! An idea to make them better without making them mandatory


#21

I don’t think it’s helpful to assume which fixes will be easy, so it’s better to stick to saying what’s actually wrong instead of asking them to do something that specifically won’t improve the tank/healer problem the game has on its own anyway (more tank hp = sustain stays most viable).


#22

I don’t really see this argument of “You haven’t been around long enough to understand the issue”. The issue is I won’t be around long if every group I join people keep telling me to not play the character I want to play. How a newer player experiences the game matters, because if that experience isn’t good they have no reason to invest the time to become a veteran.

My experience with this game is simply this:

I want to play a healer. The game allows me to play a healer. When I enter dungeons the tanks either insist they don’t need heals or are newbies and die from attacks that must be dodged that I can’t heal through. When I do scenarios I can’t heal the survivors anymore like I could in TSW. When I do story content I switch over to damage as well. When I do raids, see Dungeons.

So sure, maybe I don’t understand exactly where the issues come from yet, but there seem to be two solutions: Rebuild the system from the ground up so that healers are actually needed to do all group content, or find a way to make overheal useful somehow. In my experience it’s a lot more likely to see new systems added to a game than old systems completely redesigned.

Bottom line is, if the first thing a new player who wants to play a specific kind of character runs into is: “Don’t play that character” then the game is losing players, content or no. I at least had a lot more fun with the old TSW where I was useful in raids, dungeons and scenarios than with this game where the tanks never die and the DPS heals itself just by attacking.


#23

You can heal survivors at the same 1% effectiveness or whatever as TSW, it’s just a lot harder to select them because of what they did to tab targeting. And of course they ruined all aoe heals.


#24

I don’t really have too many horses in this race anymore, but an observation…?

Even in the previous ages of healtanks, leechtanks, ect, people generally knew up front which roles they wanted for their groups. LF4 DPS? Okay, I won’t whisper that person. Or I’ll start my own group. Healers could start their own groups, I suppose.

But really, Group Finder isn’t really favorable to anything other than traditional. Holy Trinity. Nothing else accepted. Maybe a band-aid fix would be to tinker the Group Finder to parcel out only the roles a team leader may want?

Because even on a more practical level, Story Mode NYR “requires” two healers.


#25

That is a very fair point. Although the issue of not ideal dungeon environement is possibly going beyond this: in comparison to TSW ones, new mecanichs are boring (eg. too manyhp sponges, no directly usable loot, etc).

Yes “overhealing bar” could actually solve partially the issue for you if you enjoy to play buff bot. That wouldnt solve the issue for people who really want to play as a healer (it would as well beg the question of why healer exist as a class for solo content as well). It wouldnt solve the issue that half of the glyphs are useless. The root of the issue is that the design of dungeons have been tweaked a lot, possibly to support the monetization scheme. But a number of tweaks actually made the content tedious (too many hp etc) the other ones made having a healer a luxury (no way of mitigating hits otherwise than cds - glyph are not efficient).

That said, i get the feeling that the only way they are going to bring people in/back is new content.


#26

Maybe? I don’t really care which is most viable though, so long as both options are viable. Anyway, it was just a thought - I don’t particularly care to defend it against any kind of rigorous analysis, not that you’re doing any. :v:


#28

You can heal survivors at the same 1% effectiveness or whatever as TSW, it’s just a lot harder to select them because of what they did to tab targeting. And of course they ruined all aoe heals.

How do you target them?

It’s a large and complex problem that would require a lot of work to fix, and has been argued over at length. Funcom has previously noted they are aware of the problem and would like to address it (however, that would depend on their development priorities and resources).

That doesn’t exactly evoke confidence unfortunately. I’ve played Age of Conan at launch, I’ve literally watched Funcom ignore serious balance issues to the point of basically killing off a potentially great game through inaction.

I’m starting to think I’ll just do the story content and move on. Maybe in a few years they will have sorted the game out enough to be worth spending time and money on.


#29

Control+Tab will make whatever you are looking at your defensive target. Press several times to cycle through nearby options. F1 should put yourself as defensive target after you’re done.


#30

Yup. You can also rebind the keys for it. I set mine to ` instead.


#31

I am a main healer and have four healing builds range from 100% healing down to 0% with 100% damage. They all get a fair bit of usage in MH Raid, megabosses, scenarios and daily dungeons, all depending on the pick up group dynamics.

I like scoring the occasional sustain tank as my 100% dmg heal build is pretty devastating and can cover group healing if required.

My two tips are;

  • Do what you want to do.
  • Be prepared to adapt.

#32

ctrl tab Switches trough available defensive Targets.
U cant heal survivor with nurture or other Basic heal, cus they are not part of your Party

@Aetrion
Try this, dont use AF anymore. Go to Agartha and use Group Chat to: Heals LF Tank and 3 DPS.
Tank that is responding might be a Sustain capable one but might be happy he can use other skills.
So you will get a Group that will run with you and you will not feel completely useless.

Also I advise to build a cleanse/Heal buid with shotgun
Also a full heal build with fist/Blood
and one with rifle as leech

with time you will learn what Kind of build is needed for what boss.
In Hell boss 3 I do Fullheal no matter what. Other bosses only Need leech for tank so you will swap your build often and will provide the right skill at the right time.


#33

This would not be an issue as the healer would be effectively increasing the tanks dps output more then the dps with the change suggested by the OP


#34

I actually think what the OP is suggesting here is genius. People are getting to hung up on the fact that cruel delight and sustain tanking was brought into the conversation and completely missing the benefit of what is being suggested.

To summarize currently healers are not considered very useful sure they can bring cleanses and some general group support on some fights but there’s no reason for a player to focus on becoming an amazing healer in terms of healing output in its current state.

The change suggested by the OP allows healers to again have a purpose. It counters the issue of having to little dps in fights that have a dps check ( yes I’m looking at you HR). It does NOT effect aggro as the tanks dps should be increased relatively as much and the healer can actually play an active role in controlling aggro by choosing who they focus to heal.

NO this isn’t a solution to sustain tanking.
And NO this doesn’t mean CD needs a nerf. In fact with these changes players will more often choose not to run cruel delight in dungeons.

Please try to see past the generalizations and notice how good this suggestion really is.


#35

Except that they still wouldn’t be healing, they’d be buffing. That’s why I don’t like this idea.


#36

Valid point. But perhaps it would spur a change in group mentality. Right now groups are geared for no heals but if healers became the meta less people would choose to run CD Ain the dps builds and tanks may experiment with more dps focused builds. I know this is only possibly to an extent due to one shots but a good blood healer can actually increase the health pool significantly.


#37

Lesson learned from City of Heroes : “healing” = “buffing hit points”, therefore “healer” = “(a form of) buffer” :man_shrugging:

Regarding the OP’s suggestion : I don’t get how “extra damage is capped by hit points” (7512) can work in combination with the demand of “three dps plus healer must be stronger than four dps”.
Wouldn’t a “two dps plus two healers” setup, with each dps having one healer pumping the damage, be potentially even stronger than 3+1 ?
All I see is a charlie foxtrot in the making, so I give the suggestion a hard pass.


#38

Yeah mine’s on Tab alone and I moved potions to ctrl+4. (which conveniently is where it was in tsw)


#39

Except that they still wouldn’t be healing, they’d be buffing. That’s why I don’t like this idea.

The problem with pure healing is that someone needs to be hurt before you can heal them, and they need to die unless they get healed for them to actually need you. So effectively a pure healer is only useful when they are mandatory.

Allowing heals to roll over into buffs when the target isn’t dying doesn’t take away the ability to be that life saving healer when needed, and I do agree that there should be more content where it is needed, but it doesn’t create a situation where the game needs to create a dependency on healers in every single bit of content where healers are supposed to have a use.

A big thing people tend to forget is that the core functionality of the healer archetype comes from early MMORPGs where you had to rest for minutes at a time after fights if you were wounded, so in those games healers were extremely useful even if you could easily defeat the monster before you ran out of health. That long downtime was done away with though as MMORPGs evolved, so now the “put health back” type of support character is only useful in fights where you would run out of health before you defeat the monster.

So, re-designing the way support characters work in MMORPGs is overdue anyways. Someone has to finally make a game where it all makes sense again. I think it would be great if “healer” went more toward “support” again, like in pen and paper games. In D&D the most effective way to go through encounters is to avoid damage through clever use of stealth, crowd control, defensive buffs and summoned creatures. Failing all that you need heals to restore your party to fighting form, but they should never be considered your first line of defense.


#40

But SWL isn’t designed for a dedicated support class, either. In order for a support class to be viable, the healing weapons’ abilities would have to be retooled towards utility.

The OP’s suggestion does nothing to solve the actual problem. It doesn’t make healers useful again, it just turns them into dps in a roundabout way.


#41

The problem is that in a game without downtime healers that do nothing but put HP back cannot be useful unless you simply die without them. If you can finish the fight without having your health bar extended by external heals then you don’t need a healer.

So there is simply no scenario where healers that can do nothing but put health back are universally useful without making everyone else useless without them.