I don't get the design choices behind the vanity mirror

The community has asked and waited for this since the beginning, and when it finally comes it’s quite a let down. I mean, there are mods out there for years that did a better job than this.

Pass the bugs, I’ve played CE since day one of EA and I’m used to bugs, what I really find mind blowing in this case are the design choices

1- any change you make at the mirror is instantly applied and irreversible. In few words you cannot try anything. If this was a model of bugfree game I could maybe condone such a cheap and short sighted design choice, but seriously? If one has the unexpectedly bad idea to touch the race slider, or if their cat does it for them by stepping on their keyboard, the character body gets reset forever and there is no way to revert it back.
2- what’s the reasoning behind leaving out the page for the body sliders? I’m really curious to know it, if there is one, that is. You can change anything except ■■■, you can become a pale skinned Nordheimer when you have been an ebony jewel of the Black Kingdoms for years and yet you can’t adjust your height, muscular weight and other popular sliders like bits and bobs? I mean, all of these are even natural changes that could occur in a character lifetime, unlike a race change.

I thought the point of this feature was to give us a chance to recustomize our characters after creation, but the result is that now we have a fairly high chance to irreversibly screw them for good. Myself, I’ll be stuck with a muscular body builder woman character (the default…) forever unless Funcom gives this stuff another look, including the bugs because in 2 minutes toying with the mirror, aside from ■■■■■■■■ up what I considered the most important part of my char looks, I’ve found an unprecedented amount of bugs.

In conclusion the mirror feature IMHO should have two simple additions:
1- temporary changes with a save function (it’s that function you expect to find after you use the edit one)
2- the body tab added like at character creation

But yeah, I blame myself for being naive and not see this coming. Should have not rushed to the mirror and gone fishing instead.


What you’re saying makes me thinks “What !?” “What !?” “What !?” “What !?”
CharEdit Lite mod allowed character changes and it didn’t have any of these problems.
After having raad this I’ll try the “recompiled” version

Agreed. The initial version of the bench from the first update to testlive allowed you to change everything (or at least the stuff you were referring to). I don’t know why they removed the ability to adjust these other sliders, especially in light of what you noted happens when you change your race.


It really is stupid. I wanted to check what it was about, so I built one. But not only is missing Sliders for muscle mass, breast/groin size, or changing gender, but there’s no damn “Confirm change” option of any sort! I had no idea I was permanently changing the way my character looks. I just wanted to try it out. Now I can’t go back! What gives??? This is stupid. VERY stupid. I was level 60 with whole lot of stuff farmed and built, having fun making my bases and decorating. Now I don’t even wanna log in because of the way I can’t make my character look like before. So lame. I know there’s whole lot of other bugs and issues that may have higher priority at the moment… But please fix this too as well, thank you. I can’t imagine I was the only RP-oriented player that’s mad about this.


Im starting to think that at this point they should just let the modding community take over updates because they seem to actually care about the game and know what they are doing >.> And they don’t even get paid for it unlike Funcom xD

I gave up on vanilla pretty quick so this isnt even an issue for me, but I went into singleplayer last night to check it out and was very underwhelmed, hopefully they do change it :slight_smile:

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if you can stomach this game in vanilla you are a much better soul than me. In all seriousness though if you use extended sliders on most mod edits like chareditlte and IQOL or fashionist 4.0 it can cause crashes, it’s probably why they reverted it back for the time being. I changed the height slider for example and would cause our server to crash. Once we stopped messing with those extended sliders crashes stopped.

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I have heard of that before! I havnt seen it happen though, extended sliders were working fine on the server I was on, it’s closer to an RP server so lots of smol fey/demon characters running around :smiley:
I wonder if there is a minimum/maximum cut off where it starts to have issues or something? I’m sure I saw on one of the mod pages about being careful with overly editing character sizes although I could be wrong and it was on a server discord xD

any mod that edits the size of the physics for the cloth simulation/animation of a character or thrall pretty much causes the crash to happen. It’s not really noticeable until you try to use a mod that alters appearance of thralls outfits or characters. I know anything over the 0% on chareditlite does it if you use the extended sliders feature. Clothing/armor is made to match a certain size avatar and it does not really conform to anything outside of that slider range. If its modded clothing/armor/vanity that is created from modders themselves it usually works fine like in the case of accessory wardrobe mod etc. It took us a ton of reading the server files to figure all this out as we could never figure out why the crash kept happening on our server.

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Wait… wut? You mean the new bench is one-time use only? I haven’t yet used it (thank goodness) but can you not just open it a second time and change back whatever you did the first time?
If any change, even an experimental “what would this look like” change is instant and truly permanent, then I don’t see any value at all in this new “feature.” In fact, this is downright harmful to the players.

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So, the changes are not in fact “permanent” as described then? They can be undone by using the same bench? (Which makes more sense frankly.)

Is the OP experiencing a bug of some sort or am I missing something here?

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Here’s the take away: You get no confirmation box that says “The edits you’ve made are permanent, would you like to continue?”. It makes you think you’re just trying something before deciding if you want to go with the look, but it’s doing it in real time without letting you know. What’s worse, there’s no Slider for muscle tone, and breast/groin size, like they are on the Creation Screen. So even if you wanted to look like you did before, you can’t, because it resets those Sliders to a certain value size when you’re looking through what you can edit for some reason… And as mentioned before, the edits are done in real time without asking for confirmation.

So moral of the story, don’t build and use the Vanity Mirror because it’s buggy/Incomplete. Maybe they fix it, who knows. Well, if you don’t mind them resetting those Sliders, I guess you can at least edit your face, hair style, color, etc.


Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. I understand the issue now. And yes, I think will just avoid the vanity table altogether.

So I played with this a little on solo (not risking my avatar lol ) and if you just want to change a feature like your hair or a facial feature, it doesnt seem to do what the OP said…BUT, if you change your race, it defaults to the standard creation screen avatar, and basically makes you start over completely. Definitely dont use the quick button on the right, AND dont use the race option, unless you just want to completely redo your avatar.

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early access functionality? What are you talking about? This has been rushed into the live version which is out of Early Access from 2 years and a half.

Please detail where “it doesn’t seem to do what the OP said”

BUT, if you change your race, it defaults to the standard creation screen avatar, and basically makes you start over completely.

This is both obvious and incorrect at the same time. We should expect that changing race would resets our characters figures, just like at character creation, but we can’t start over completely because the body sliders tab is missing.

Definitely dont use the quick button on the right

what quick button to the right? You are maybe referring to the shuffle/randomize all button?

AND dont use the race option, unless you just want to completely redo your avatar.

Except that, again, you cannot completely redo your avatar, as I have highlighted in that OP you probably did not quite understand. If you could completely redo your avatar, there wouldn’t really be an issue.

Aside from the poor design choices I highlighted, there are also several bugs. Armour colours temporarily resetting. If you also own Siptah DLC, you have access to new faces and hairs, but only through the mirror, not at character creation. EXCEPT that the Stygian female model has a completely new default face which will show from character creation (I don’t know if you need the DLC to have it or not), BUT if you change the face slider it will vanish, meaning that if you move the slider and go back to its position, there won’t be the new face but the old default one for Stygians. I know it well for a fact because I’m playing this Stygian character for 3 years… and btw, the default Stygian hairstyle still has a clipping bug which I reported years ago.

expansion, what expansion?
your contribution is becoming more and more interesting, please continue.

Try to stay calm…lol. I tested it, and it does exactly what I said. My boobs didnt change…sure I cant make them bigger…poor me…I was talking about facial features mainly, and that seems to be what it does…mainly. We’re done here.

I came looking for this same discussion after totally befuggling up my avatar as well.

The OP may not have articulated precisely the issue, but the sentiment is spot on - there is no “confirm changes”.
Meaning if you don’t know what setting you had something on - it is very hard to go recreate it after doing a bunch of fiddling with the settings.

Out of curiosity I changed the race - to see what they would look like in another cultural appearance. Doing so irreversibly made the character look different as the default body settings are applied And while this is expected that the body defaults would be shown initially - you cannot alter the body (the body sliders are not there to toggle), and you cannot “undo changes” so it is permanently altered. \

This is indeed a HUGELY grave oversight by the developer. Very poorly implemented to NOT warn the changes would be irreversible or to not include a “Accept changes” option (which would be a better option).

I had a level 95 character who looked absolutely nothing like they used to. I share the same sentiment that I didn’t even want to log back in because what was once special to me no longer was. So i completely empathize with that lamentation.

I agree with the sentiments that the modders of the game(s) are usually better stewards of the game design/appearance/look. This is also and especially true of The Sims which I also enjoy. In that game’s case, the modders are the only reason the game is good and fun.

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