Something has to be done about the massive foundation spam on official servers

I’d love the “-C part”, but without “complete destruction”. I wouldn’t mind if someone mounted an attack to destroy my fishing outpost or volcano workshop or one of the convenience wheels. But if I have to take my kid to his RSM classes one day and then I come back to find that some butthurt clown wiped out everything I had? No, thanks.

I did consider, at one point, doing what you said – start fresh on a new server, keep to myself and just attack anyone on sight, but I guessed I would’ve gotten the same reaction: let’s wall this guy in.

Of course, it matters how you do it. I never had any problem with people who attacked me. I would either fight or run away and no hard feelings. But there are people who would take running away poorly and then get douchy on global, like I was under some kind of obligation to stay and fight them any time they wanted. If you happen to have that kind of attitude, I don’t blame them for reacting the way they did :wink:

That’s what PvE is for. People who go to PvE-C are looking for something in between PvP and PvE. For these players, PvE seems boring. No point in it. They want something to fight over. They just don’t want it to be their base, because in PvP, getting raided means losing all your stuff. Getting wiped means you are back to square one.

That’s great if you have no life. But for those who don’t have dozens of hours each week to play, they need to not have to worry about getting set back, just because they couldn’t play that day.

This means it is up to the Devs to find a way to do both. Make it such that you have a safe build zone, but also have something to fight over. Even if that something is just bragging rights. I suggested a Team King of the Hill concept. You can build there, but other people will try to topple you. There has to be a reason to build there, however. A reason to build a second base on that spot. Maybe doing so grants you favor from your god, and so your resource gathering is twice what others have.

You would be surprised. Do you have any idea just how many people end up on PVE-C because they have no clue what “-C” stands for? :laughing:

Yeah, that’s another way to do it. Make parts of the map “safe” and the rest of the map has building destruction turned on. Put something valuable there that requires building a base. Kinda like the vespene gas in StarCraft – can’t just harvest it with your units, gotta build on top. Make sure there’s no “vespene gas” in the safe portions of the map.

The problem with that idea is that the safe regions will have the exact same problem you see now: you’ll want to build your main base in the safe region, but that means that some douche canoe can build an invulnerable wall around it.

This is why I prefer the claim totem idea – that way each player has to choose whether they want to keep their own base safe or be a dick to someone else :stuck_out_tongue:

I would not use safe areas. The safe area is the bubble created by your homestead structure. This could be a flag, or some other structure. This creates a circle you must build inside of. In Atlas, when they did that, you could see the circle if you turned on that option. You could also see the circle when you were about to place the flag. This way you knew where you could build, and where you could not.

edit: so only you can build inside that structure. Anything built outside of it, could be destroyed.

Well being walled in isn’t an issue for me, if you build your base correctly, it’s impossible to be 100% walled in.

If you want to see how mad I’ve made these people, just come check out 1517. The fact is that i’m usually pretty respectful, but it shouldn’t be any suprise to you that people don’t like being looted.

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Okay, but then make it impossible to place the flag in the “king of the hill” zone :slight_smile:

Also, a fixed radius has its pros and cons. The way I see it, the pros are: 1) you don’t have to bother with upkeep mechanics, and 2) it would lead to interesting base architecture. The major con is that there is no flexibility involved. An alternative is to combine the upkeep mechanics with the claim flag, something along the lines of the claim totem I once proposed.

It’s funny how the claim flag mechanic keeps popping up. It’s been proposed before and it keeps being proposed. I still keep a slim hope that Funcom is reading this stuff and that one day they might implement something like it.

A question arises though as to how a “capture the flag” game mechanic jives with Conan. While it may work to resolve a winner, how does Conan invoke capturing a flag? Conan is slaughter and conquer. This can be a huge problem on Funcom’s side of the ball. How to stay true to Conan as the core to the game and still resolve PVP issues?

Maybe I wasn’t paying enough attention, but I can’t recall seeing anyone propose CTF as the mechanic. I would agree that’s a bad idea. But I think it’s the word “flag” that makes it sound like that. That’s why I prefer something like “totem” or “standard” or some other word.

I think people tend to use the word “flag” because of the Battle Standard in CE, but maybe I’m wrong.

hell naw

Because they want to socialize with others, Officials are pretty much the default option, and they want to be able to enjoy a scenic view of (and from) their base without seeing someone else’s build. Heck, I spent ages on an Official because I was leery of the time-investment and additional responsibility that would be involved with admining my own server when I’m already a sys admin for a living.

But why not play on a private, you might ask? Well, since the main factor that led me to forsake an Official was a lack of agency where gameplay decisions were concerned, picking someone else’s private and hoping for the best wasn’t a particularly compelling option either. For others who are similarly leery of living by someone else’s standards and lack the money, free-time, inclination, or expertise, you might understand why such folks would pick to play on an Official server.

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@CodeMage I think a building perms/upkeep banner system and/or a CTF-type game mode for the new map could solve a lot of the issues we see on official pvp servers. But both are pretty massive coding projects and likely aren’t feasible in the near term for the current map. I shared this with @darthphysicist in the wiki discord but for those reading here, I’ve previously designed and ran a super detailed CTF game mode for a private server using capture totems: http://bit.ly/cascadedomination. It was a fascinating experience, but didn’t pan out in the long run due to some admin issues. I also recognize that you’d have to create plenty of new safeguards against exploits and gaming the system if you tried to create this as a non moderated experience. Darth, about your comment about jiving with the slaughter and conquer side of Conan I’d argue that 1) ideal would be having CTF as a different menu option like pve-c launched with fresh servers on the new map, and 2) if that’s not technically feasible then I still stand behind it as aligned with the spirit of Conan-- you still will have intense and likely savage raids for those who want that, but with this there’s at least an end goal in the end game. Alphas get bored and non alphas get stomped and frustrated. Both often just stop playing conan. You need some sort of goal and opportunity to grow/improve/design new strategies etc.

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I think you highlight the problem with people’s perceptions of this mechanic. Why does the circle have to be small? Why can’t it be huge? I mean, it could literally be the size of a grid square. Who needs more than a grid square? Yet people do spam areas that size. They can even give you the option to make it smaller, if you know you aren’t going to build that big, and don’t mind neighbors. Also, if you don’t like where it is, you can pull it up, and place it in another spot.

The mechanic could work like this. You plant the flag. Then, you go to the map, and you see a circle indicating your territory. You can then make it smaller through the +/- keys. Later, you can make it bigger, if you choose, but only if somebody else does not already own the area that the increase would claim. Being able to pull up the flag, and place it in another location, would allow you to increase the size, while avoiding the other person’s claim.

Also, there can be a lot of feedback on the map. Why not allow you to see the circle when you simply have the flag in hand, ready to be placed. You see the circle. Any part of the circle that is invalid, meaning it is overlapping somebody’s claim, or ghost fence, or no build zones, would show up in the circle as red. By allowing you to actually see what is obstructing you, and what it is, you can move away from that obstruction, or reduce the size of your circle.

Of course, there would need to be a maximum size to the circle, and also a minimum.

This could also be done by clan size, if they wish, but not sure that is really needed.

The point here is that people are already claiming areas that big. And this would solve so many other problems. Like the person who set their horse to guard in an area I want to build, and then never came back. Since the decay for animals and thralls seems to be broken, I may never be able to build there. I have seen thralls from decayed bases that are still around 4 months later.

So they wreck the view with ugly foundation spam. Gotcha. Smart thinking. (insert eye roll emoji here)

A better option would be to move to a private server where you can have more control, and a smaller community, meaning less chance of neighbors…spoiling your view.

Yes, please continue to paint everyone with a broad brush and assume they all do things like that. Hyperbole is always super helpful in these sort of discussions in exactly the same way that sarcasm isn’t :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.

So glad I bothered to write the second half of that post. :laughing:

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Make the gods nukes again, and there will be far less spam. Problem solved.

…on PVP servers.

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You didn’t make a compelling argument. You talked about being at the mercy of the admins on the server. Weak argument. On official, you are at the mercy of trolls and griefers, with nobody to help in the matter…and as I pointed out, on officials, you have to wreck your precious view with miles of ugly sandstone foundations.

I have played on private servers for other games. Ark, Atlas, 7D2D, etc… Some servers are bad, and some are good. You just have to look around for a good one. They aren’t actually hard to find. The servers with bad admins are actually rare. Their rules are normally posted in a Discord channel, or website.

My point is that if you want to be a mini-Land Baron, a private server IS a better option.

The problem with this mechanic isn’t just perception. Imagine being able to craft an item that you can place down and suddenly a whole grid square is now claimed and no one else can build there. It would take even less work than it does today and, let’s face it, today it takes too little work – isn’t that part of what we’ve been complaining about?

So, naturally, if we’re proposing a mechanic like that as an improvement, people will assume that the radius isn’t huge. And then you get complaints and discussions about just how big or small it should be, because everyone will have a different opinion and everyone will be convinced that their opinion is the right one. If you try to provide a “one size fits all” solution, the only thing you can be sure of is that it won’t fit anyone :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s why I believe that a new claim mechanic has to come hand in hand with some kind of upkeep mechanic. Sure, everyone will still grumble and complain, but they’ll have more freedom to experiment and you avoid both major pitfalls: 1) everyone feels too constrained, 2) trolls can place huge claims with even less effort than now.

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Always have to laugh when pvp or pve-c players try to force pve players into playing their style of play. PVE players don’t need you but it seems you need them and look for ways to force them into your play style.

What a joke. If the game can’t support pvp play and maintain that population in its play style then something is wrong in the game mechanic. Its pretty telling when you have a segment of the player population wanting to dragoon in players who do not play that way because they need someone to play with.

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The same can be said for PVE’ers that complain about PVP aspects.

You could also say that if the PVE was taken out, things would be done differently too.

Ive seen this before in games where they try to have both pvp and pve in it. You cannot balance both since they are two different playstyles

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Still does not negate my point that PVE does not need other players to play that style. PVP needs other players to feed off.

I agree that you cannot balance both these are two different strands of game mechanic that do not mix.