Sorcery and Miracles, two exclusive paths for Magic in the game

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Now trundling through the game (still), I noticed two very specific NPCs.

One called Mek-kamoses, a former sorcerer of the Black Hand exiled to the Exiled Lands by Thoth-Amon due to politics and who offers to teach you the Words of Power he learned if you could bring him a relic of power.

There is also the Mitra follower, Muriela the Artisan, who claims Mitra speaks to her and guides her to create a colossal, perfect statue for the God’s essence to inhabit and to heal the Exiled Lands and drive away the other Gods from the world.

Something that pulled at my brain was that we’ve seen that the Exiled Lands are a place in the world where the boundaries between the natural world and the alien, inhospitable planes beyond the Veil are worn exceptionally thin, allowing sorcery of a scale unseen since the dawn of the Serpent Men and the ancient kingdoms of Atlantis and Lemuria were at their heights.

And what Sorcery we do see in Conan’s universe is normally either alchemical or scientific in nature, or draws from those alien realms on the other side of the Veil, though generally at great cost to either the wielder or those around them.

I propose a new Relic, albeit unconnected to releasing the player(s) from the Exiled Lands, be uncovered. This Relic, the Orbs of Piercing, are several fist-sized orbs of Star-Metal, inlaid with Black Ice and other materials from beyond the Veil that could be used to accurately contact a specific realm outside of our own … if used correctly, and will expend all of it’s power once used to create a single, small, stable connection.

Here’s where players get stuck on the horns.

Take the Relic to Mek-kamoses, and he will be delighted. While no Black Ring of Set, the Orbs of Piercing are very close to what he needs to not only escape the Exiled Lands without needing the other Relics, but will enable him to study deeper, darker depths of Sorcery to possibly match or surpass Thoth-Amon, and being true to his word, Mek-kamoses teaches you the basics of Sorcery.

This unlocks a Feat called ‘Sorcerer’, which also precludes the player ever learning ‘Adept’, the other version of magic in the game, and opens up a four-tiered tree for players to pursue.

1st Tier:

• Witchfire Bombs: Water Orb, 1 dose of Witchfire Powder, 1 dose of Demon Blood. Effect is a cloud like a Poison Bomb that inflicts fire-damage to all targets within the effect. Using a Gas Orb causes the Witchfire Bomb to expand by 50%. A Fire Orb causes a massive explosion dealing significant damage. A Water Orb or Purification Orb dispels the Witchfire Bomb’s effects and a Grease Bomb blinds all targets within the area of effect unless they have a torch or Night Vision.

• Witchfire Coating: 2 doses of Witchfire Powder, 1 dose of Ichor, 1 dose of Tar. Effect is similar to a poison application, but can be applied to any weapon and causes the weapon to glow a pale blue until the effect wears off, be it 10 hits as normal for a poison or an hour has passed. Being hit with a weapon coated in Witchfire Coating causes the target to rapidly heat up, similar to how a Frost Giant’s attacks can cause a player to rapidly begin to freeze and suffer Frostbite.

• Witchfire Torch: 10 doses of Witchfire Powder, 5 Hardened Steel Ingots, 20 crystals, 2 doses of Dust of Corruption. Effect is a Torch-like device that sheds blue light, deals damage as a Hardened Steel Mace without the Sundering effect, but has half the durability of a Hardened Steel Mace. Having the weapon out slowly drains durability, meaning having the weapon out and equipped for three hours will completely destroy the item, not including uses as a weapon, and repairing it requires Witchfire Powder, Hardened Steel Ingots and Crystals. Those without the Sorcerer Feat take a small amount of Corruption damage while wielding this weapon.

Tier 2:

• Touch of Set: 1 dose of Serpent Venom, 1 dose of Witchfire Powder, 1 dose of Demon Blood. Effect is a decidedly lethal poison equal to Scorpion Queen Venom with the added bonus of causing Bleed damage as the target begins to leak blood from their every orifice.

• Blessing of Set: 1 dose of Serpent Venom, 2 doses of Witchfire Powder, 1 dose of Ichor, 1 dose of Demon Blood: Effect is immunity to Poison and a +5 to Agility and Strength, but a -3 to Vitality and the imbiber becomes twice as vulnerable to the effects of cold temperatures.

• Scales of the Old Serpent: 10 pieces of Reptilian Hide, 2 doses of Witchfire Powder, 2 doses of Aloe Extract, 1 dose of Demon Blood: Effect is Immunity to Crippling and a +5 to Vitality and Grit, but a -2 to Agility and the Imbiber becomes twice as vulnerable to the effects of cold temperatures.

Tier 3:

• Eyes of the Serpent: 4 doses of Witchfire Powder, 2 doses of Alchemical Base, 2 doses of Ichor, 2 doses of Demon Blood. Effect is Night Vision, a +5 to Accuracy and a +10 damage bonus to bows for 2 hours.

• Favour of the Old Ones: 1 dose of Powder of Corruption, 2 doses of Alchemical Base, 2 doses of Demon Blood, 1 Water Orb. Effect is a cloud of corrupt mists on the targeted area. Targets who have the Sorcerer Feat do not take the Corruption damage and are instead affected with Regeneration as per a Healing Arrow. Targets who have the Adept Feat instead take double the Corruption damage while within the area of effect. Thralls are treated as within a double-strength poison cloud while within the area of effect.

  Applying a Gas Orb extends the cloud by 50%. Applying a Fire Orb or the Favour of the Defender causes the mist to instantly evaporate. Applying a Water or Grease Orb causes all targets within the area of effect to be effectively blinded (unless they have a torch or Night Vision) while within the area of effect.

• Blood of the Serpent: 5 doses of Demon Blood, 5 doses of Witchfire Powder, 5 doses of Aloe Extract, 2 doses of Alchemical Base. Effect is the shifting of the imbiber’s biology to something both more and less than human, as organs shift and long-atrophied functions flare to life. The target gains regeneration even when damaged, and this effect greatly increases when the imbiber’s temperature becomes Hot, and increases again when the imbiber becomes Very Hot.

  This applies in reverse when the target becomes Cold and Very Cold, to the point where a Very Cold character will start to lose health rapidly as their altered biology begins to shut down from the cold. The other side effect is that the target will become ravenous to support this unnatural regeneration, rapidly draining their Food and Water meters and needing to carry plentiful food to sustain their unnatural regeneration, as the faster the imbiber regenerates, the faster their food and water meters will deplete.

Tier 4

• Blade of the Sorcerer: 20 ingots of Star Metal, 10 doses of Alchemical Base, 100 doses of Witchfire Powder, 20 doses of Demon Blood. A potent weapon that could be used for good or ill, this Khopesh made of enchanted Star Metal glitters blue, illuminating the surroundings like a torch and deals damage like a Starmetal Sword. Has the same Durability as a Starmetal Sword, but inflicts Sunder damage instead of Cripple.

• Staff of the Sorcerer: 30 ingots of Star metal, 20 doses of Alchemical Base, 100 doses of Witchfire Powder, 20 doses of Powder of Corruption. A potent staff of specifically-enchanted Star Metal that sheds a bright blue glow, capped with the cobra-like head of a serpent and inlaid with precious alchemical reagents. The staff functions as a bow and favours the Accuracy stat as a result, and consumes Witchfire Powder as ammunition, shooting a fireball of purple-blue hue the size of a man’s head in a short trajectory as it’s primary attack, or a short cone of the same purple-blue fire when it’s secondary attack is used. The Fireball attack deals 40 damage on hit, has a range of 10 foundations, consumes 1 dose of Witchfire Powder and has no splash. The Cone attack deals 25 damage, consumes 1 dose of Witchfire Powder per second and has a range 3 foundations and is 2 foundations wide.

• Ring of Secrets: 10 Ingots of Star Metal, 20 doses of Alchemical Base, 100 doses of Witchfire Powder, 100 crystals and 20 doses of Demon Blood. This ring appears as a dragon-like serpent, or a serpent-like dragon, of blue-grey metal with glowing eyes of reddish-purple crystal and scales studded with more of the same, wrapped thrice around the bearer’s finger, and takes up the gloves/gauntlet slot on the wearer. Wearing this ring grants the bearer +5 Vitality, Encumbrance and Survival, a +100 to the wearer’s armor as well as doubling the effects of any potions or poisons from the Sorcerer Feat, but the Fiend bound into the ring during it’s creation also draws the attention of beings from beyond the Veil who can sense the power this ring radiates.

  Periodically, the wearer will draw small bands of Serpent Men, Undead of all kinds, Sepermeru Treasure Hunters, Frost Giants or elite serpents or spiders to their location as a sort of personal mini-Purge that will randomly, and without warning, come at them at any location in the world, but not within Dungeons or instanced areas. These foes will exclusively target the wearer of the Ring of Secrets unless attacked by other individuals and will continue to track the wearer no matter where they go until they are slain or they can no longer physically reach the wearer, at which point they will eventually disperse, but will rapidly return once the wearer returns from their perch.

On the other hand, if the player takes the Orbs of Piercing to Muriela the Artisan, she has a ‘vision’ from Mitra who instructs her on how to re-assemble and attune the Orbs to him, and teaches the player how to perform ‘miracles’, unlocking the ‘Adept’ Feat and permanently locking the player out from ever accessing the ‘Sorcerer’ Feat. Same as Sorcerer, Adept as 4 tiers to pursue.

Tier 1:

• Purification Orbs: One Water Orb, 1 potion of Glowing Essence, 1 dose of Silver Dust. Effect is a cloud like a Poison Bomb that exclusively affects Corrupted Creatures like Serpent Men, Undead, Rocknoses, Players with the Sorcerer Feat or creatures that bear one or three skulls on their health-bar. Players without the Sorcerer Feat may stand within the mist to slowly lose Corruption. Players with the Adept Feat lose corruption faster than those who do not. Using a Water Orb expands the effect by 50%, while a Fire Orb causes an explosion. A Poison Orb or Witchfire Bomb neutralizes the effect and a Grease Bomb blinds all targets within the effect unless they have a Torch or Night Vision.

• Healing Salve: 1 dose of Aloe Extract, 2 doses of Ichor, 6 pieces Silk. Effect is much like the common bandage, but heals 90 points of damage and can cure Poison, Bleed and Cripple Effects. If used while moving, it instantly removes the effects and then ends. If the user does not move, the effects are removed and the user will heal 90 points of damage over the next ten seconds.

• Inquisitor’s Friend: 1 Gold Ingot, 20 Hardened Steel Ingots, 10 pieces of silk, 10 pieces of Shaped Wood, 5 potions of Glowing Essence. Functioning as a Hardened Steel mace that sheds light as a torch, this elegant mace seems more a piece of art than a weapon, but the rituals binding power to this weapon are channeled through golden runes etched into the steel, and allow the mace to shed light endlessly in service of it’s wearer. those who possess the Sorcerer Feat cannot equip this weapon, and those who carry it on their person find their health slowly but steadily decreasing until such time as they divest this holy weapon from their person.

Tier 2:

• Spectre Coating: 2 doses of Oil, 1 potion of Glowing Essence, 1 dose of Alchemical Base, 1 dose of Silver Dust, 1 dose of Purified Water. Creates the Spectre Coating potion.

• Blessing of the Defender: 1 mug of Ale, 1 loaf of Honey Bread, 1 dose of Silver Dust, 1 piece of Cooked Exquisite Meat, 1 potion of Aloe Extract. Effect is immunity to Poison and a +5 to Vitality and Strength, but a -3 to Agility and Accuracy and one wicked mother of a hangover. Bring extra water.

• Shield of the Faithful: 2 potions of Glowing Essence, 2 doses of Tar, 5 pieces of Chitin, 1 dose of Silver Dust, 1 dose of Alchemical Base. Effect is applied to one shield and produces a benefit of +50 armor and causes the shield to glow as a torch for 2 hours.

Tier 3:

• Eyes of the Defender: 2 Potions of Glowing Essence, 2 doses of Alchemical Base, 2 doses of Silver Dust, 2 doses of Purified Water. Effect is Night Vision, a +5 to Accuracy and +5 to Survival for 2 hours.

• Favour of the Defender: 5 doses of Silver Dust, 2 doses of Alchemical Base, 10 doses of Bonemeal, 1 Water Orb. Effect is a cloud of purifying mists on the targeted area. Targets who have the Adept are affected by a double-strength Regeneration effect, while targets without are only Regenerated as if affected with a Healing Arrow. Both Adepts and Non-Sorcerer Players recover a small amount of Corruption Damage while standing in the cloud. Targets with the Sorcerer Feat or Corrupted Creatures treat the cloud as a double-strength Poison Cloud.

  Applying a Poison Orb or the Favour of the Old One neutralizes the effect, while a Fire Orb causes an explosion. Applying a Water Orb expands the cloud’s effect by 50%, and a Grease Orb causes any target within the area of effect to become blinded unless they have a Torch or Night Vision.

  Additionally, when Favour of the Defender is used in an area with corruption, it explodes and bathes the surrounding creatures in droplets of mist. Adept and Non-Sorcerer Players are treated as being immune to Corruption for 10 seconds. Sorcerers and Corrupt Creatures like Undead, creatures with skulls on their health-bars or Serpent Men are treated as poisoned, even if their type normally prevents this status effect.

• Touch of the Heavens: 25 doses of Blood, 5 doses of Aloe Extract, 5 doses of Purified Water and 5 Doses of Alchemical Base. Effect is a celestial balancing of the target’s body, healing old injuries, soothing lingering maladies and bringing forth the full potential of body and mind for a short while. The target gains +5 to all Attributes, but at a cost as mortal frames were not meant for such perfection. The effect lasts for 2 hours, but during this time the player will deplete their food and water meters at three times the rate as normal, and exposure to Corruption will wear away at the effect at an accelerated rate.

  Light Corruption reduces the bonus to the Attributes to +4.

  Medium Corruption reduces the bonus to Attributes to +2 and reduces the duration by half.

  Heavy Corruption completely removes the bonus and inflicts a single stack of bleed and poison to the target as their body violently attempts to purge the corruption and the celestial harmony at once in an attempt to save itself.

Tier 4:

• Axe of the Sacred Executioner: 30 Star Metal Ingots, 10 doses of Alchemical Base, 100 doses of Silver Dust, 100 doses of Blood. A strangely ornate weapon for such a grim profession, this greataxe is composed entirely of Starmetal, from the heavy, cleaver-like blade to the haft and the skull-shaped pommel, the normal grey-blue of the Starmetal has been transformed into a pale silvery white that is shot through with runes of gold and red. This axe does not glow like many enchanted weapons, but deals Sunder Damage with heavy attacks and, against Corrupted Targets or those with the Sorcerer Feat, also deals Bleed Damage with light attacks as the blessed blade seeks to extract vengeance for all the souls lost to darkness that infests the Exiled Lands.

• Sword of the Last Knight: 20 Ingots of Star Metal, 20 doses of Alchemical Base, 50 doses of Silver Dust, 20 pieces of Layered Silk. An imposingly broad-bladed sword with solid but unadorned cross-guard and hilt, the grey-blue tint of the blade is covered sith silvery runes and glows like the sun itself and grants +5 Strength and +5 Encumbrance to the wielder. Useable with only a single hand, seemingly impossibly so given the weight of the weapon, this blade not only deals a great deal of damage due to the sharpness of its edge and the weight of the blade, but also the amount of power invested in the weapon which grants it unusual abilities against the Undead and the Corrupted.

  When striking one of the Undead or a Corrupted Being, the blade flashes with light and burns the target with the touch of absolute purity, dealing an additional 20 points of damage to Undead, Snake Men, Players with the Sorcerer Feat or creatures with skulls on their health-bars.

• The Sage’s Crown: 15 Ingots of Star Metal, 30 doses of Alchemical Base, 15 ingots of Gold, 15 Ingots of Silver, 100 crystals, 20 pieces of Layered Silk. This circlet is made of exotic materials and metals, yet somehow still manages to give off a humble and tasteful aura that applies equally to it’s wearer, and takes up the helmet slot. Wearing the Crown grants the wearer +5 Vitality, Grit and Encumbrance, adds +100 to the wearer’s armor total and doubles the effects of potions or oils from the Adept’s Feat, but the divine power bound up into the crown’s structure also has a drawback, as such a strong light draws the attention, and the ire, of the Dark Forces of the world, who are very strong and deeply entrenched in the Exiled Lands.

  Periodically, the wearer will draw small bands of Serpent Men, Undead of all kinds, Sepermeru Treasure Hunters, Frost Giants or elite serpents or spiders to their location as a sort of personal mini-Purge that will randomly, and without warning, come at them at any location in the world, but not within Dungeons or instanced areas. These foes will exclusively target the wearer of The Sage’s Crown unless attacked by other individuals and will continue to track the wearer no matter where they go until they are slain or they can no longer physically reach the wearer, at which point they will eventually disperse, but will rapidly return once the wearer returns from their perch.

So, your thoughts?

[Quid2Facis]

I think I’d rather just spend 50 points unlocking staff. If I were to ever find a staff that staff would allow me to do one thing. Examples: call forth sandstorm, transmute rock to iron, extend day or night, fly, summon beast. Too much complication seems more like D&D than Conan.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Eh, I don’t disagree, but I was thinking along the following lines:

1. Cannot be more powerful than already existing Feats.

2. Must fit within the Conan Mythos and Setting without straining the boundaries of said setting too much.

3. Must be easily codable into the game and use pre-existing mechanics to avoid unnecessary dev-fatigue and prevent it from being ‘too difficult’ for players to utilize effectively in both PvP and PvE scenarios.

4. Must fit the ‘themes’ of the two Gods in question.

Of course, we’ve also got Yog, Jhebbal Sag, Derketa and now possibly Dagon to throw their own variations of the above lists at the players. Set’s a sneaky, treacherous God of blood and sacrifice, so he’d naturally provide Sorcery in tune with that. Mitra’s a self-righteous, self-impressed deity who wants to save Mankind through honor and virtue, so his Miracles should reflect that in turn.

Yog’s Blasphemies might invoke themes of cannibalism, darkness and knowledge, while Derketa Rituals might involve fertility, death and necromantic themes, Jhebbal Sag might allow you to take on the forms of beasts or command their allegiance through Pacts, so on and so forth. It might make Temples and Religions a far more potent choice for players if becoming an actual follower of a God precludes the blessings of the other ones, but grants potent rewards for your faithfulness and piety.

[Crysis]

And this is largely why sorcery isn’t likely to be implemented.

Everyone who has ever requested sorcery has gone insanely overboard on what can be done.

I mean…do you even read what you wrote?

Calling forth sandstorms. Altering the laws of time and/or physics to alter day and night.

Even summon beast is overpowered because summoning in Conan is for demons. And it takes a lot of time and power to do that. Not just “wave my staff” to get it.

[Quid2Facis]

What can I say. I’m a Conan the Adventurer fan. All the sorcerers had to use a staff. And each did about one thing. OP? Maybe. Doesn’t it have to be, if it’s going to be your only thing. Perhaps my 50 point idea is an insufficient cost.

[Crysis]

If it’s OP, then staff usage would be the ONLY thing in the game.

It would break everything completely because nobody would use anything else. There’d be one Meta staff that was seen as the best for everything. And that is what everyone would use.

It would ruin the game.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Assuming ‘Sorcery’ and ‘Miracles’ were implemented, should we go for the ‘low’ form of magic, basically alchemy and alchemy-powered tools that create limited effects, or should we risk pushing the setting’s boundaries with some actual out-and-out magic?

I recall in several Conan stories that some sorcerers were able to tear open holes to the Outer Realms and the planes of existence were Set and the other Great Old Ones came from, but I feel that’s better served by a Tier 3 Temple.

I mean, I could see a Sorcerer being able to ‘tame’ Demons like Bat or Vulture Demons through a specific relic or tool that would then be the thing required to take control of said Demon (essentially the vital essence of the Demon is bound up in the item, and possession of it enables one to command said Demon, although the destruction of the item could either permanently release or slay said Demon) and thus use it as a Thrall or a sort-term allied Mini-Boss to use to defend a base from a Purge or a dedicated Raider assault.

Followers of Set would naturally be able to bind Serpents to their will, while Mitra’s followers might be able to craft a golemn in the image of their God. Dekerta would be a giant cat or skeletal creature, Yog would be some tentacled horror and Jhebbal might allow a powerful Werewolf or Werehyena to serve temporarily?

Ultimately, I still strongly believe that ‘Sorcery’ must be kept relatively low-key, at the same or maybe slightly higher power than most end-game alchemy or weaponry, and be intrinsically tied to one of the Gods of the setting, and thus each ‘style’ of Sorcery or Miracle would have different uses and different themes that dictate how and what those ‘Sorceries’ or ‘Miracles’ manifest as.

[Quid2Facis]

At the same or slightly higher, I agree to start. Whether it’s tied to a God or not doesn’t matter to me.
I want the sorcerers a sorcerer, not sword wielding Gandolfs. Once committed there is no going back and corruption is guaranteed. I want them OP where challengers have to out last their effects and strike when they are exhausted, weakened, drained of power.
Heck, have only one staff per server if necessary. A King of the Hill scenario even. Make the staff impossible to use if part of a clan even. But make them sorcerers not just another option.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Eh, that’s plausible, but don’t forget Thoth-Amon could quite easily hold his own in a sword-fight, even standing toe to toe with Conan himself on multiple occasions.

I’d argue that given our avatars aren’t going to become full-time Sorcerers, we’re basically practicing the ‘Low Craft’ version of Sorcery/Miracles, then making sure that access to a form of magic in-tune with the Hyborean universe reflects this accurately.

[TitanSpirit]

@Giant_Neckbeard - I admire your extensive description of the idea. In order to have best control over realizing this project, please create a mod. Just download Epic Game Launcher, download Conan Dev SDK (Around 198GB!) and make it happen Otherwise your idea will die.

I also love the way “And what Sorcery we do see in Conan’s universe is normally either alchemical or scientific in nature”, cause magic has never existed. It was always just something far beyond the simpleminded people

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Sadly I am stuck using a console for most of my gaming for the foreseeable future, so that’s a nix on my behalf, sorry.

[Bryan_Skull]

Are we in potions 101? Sorcery isn’t alchemy. I’m against this weak attempt at sorcery.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

From memory, there were two ‘types’ of magic in the setting, from the older novels at least.

The first was the ‘Low Craft’ involving alchemy and rudimentary science, which the primitive and superstitious labeled ‘sorcery’ because of the general level of knowledge in the setting.

The second, and generally reserved for the Sorcerers of the White Hand of Hyperborea and the Black Hand of Stygia, and occasional high-ranking clerics of the Gods, was the ‘High Craft’ which involved actual magic, gained via sacrifice or pacts with beings from beyond the Veil that separated the material world from the alien realms of the Old Ones such as Set, Dagon and Yog.

I’m advocating the above solutions for a couple of reasons:

1. Easily codable and already functions much as we have in the game, meaning Funcom doesn’t have to sink months into something that only a small handful of players may chase or desire.

2. Players are not your typical Sorcerers. They’re learning on the fly, in the Exiled Lands, without tutors, without volumes of ancient text and previous users to study, without anything but what they can slap together themselves. That’s not going to be easy to duplicate the prowess of the more storied sorcerers in the setting.

3. It’s been mentioned several times in the novels and comics that Sorcerers don’t run around casting spells of great power often because it tends to attract attention of things best left undisturbed. Better to use the Low Craft and save your strength, and your trump cards, for a real threat than to make the skies rain hel-fire to deal with a band of uppity barbarians.

That said, that’s why the ‘lower’ tiers are basically alchemical things that can be scientifically explained (to a point) by the ingredients involved. Some of the Third Tier, and all of the Fourth Tier, are out and out magical and require ridiculous amounts of materials and produce blatantly supernatural effects when used.

If you’ve got a suggestion that works better within the boundaries of the setting and won’t become a dominating Meta for PvPers to use, please, lay it on us!

[Bryan_Skull]

Wags my Lich’s finger. Sorcery users aren’t wizards. What the difference you ask? Sorcery users are born with thier magics. Wizards study and learn thier magic.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

That’s kinda more D&D than Conan.

[Bryan_Skull]

It more of the original sorcery origins.

[Bodin]

And don’t forget Thaumaturgy - powers granted by a spirit (doing the bidding of the one who summoned it… usually against its will). That would add a “shaman” classification to sorcery and wizards.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Sorcery could be for Sorcerers of Set and Dhekrta (though different spells for each ‘God’) with a more offensive twist to their nature.

Miracles could be for Mitra and Ymir (though different spells for each ‘God’) with more defensive and buffing natures invoked.

Shamans could be for Yog and Jhebal Sag (though different spells for each ‘God’) with the appropriate tropes invoked for the Gods being worshipped and beseeched for power.

It’d be an interesting way to make sure your ‘faith’ had a lot more impact than just what you got from an Altar and which giant monstrosity you summoned. If such things also precluded your ability to use the blessings of different Gods, that’d also add a tactical twist to end-game players too.

[Giant_Neckbeard]

Bumping this for a bit while I sit down and plot out Dhekertian sorcery, Ymir miracles and the shamanism involved with Yog and Jhebal Sag.