So started new characters on the test build. stamina drain on light attacks with zero attributes = 3 or 4 attacks. this is an extreme reduction. heavy attacks are worse. And a jump to start climbing a wall consuming 1/4 to 1/3 of available stamina as well? yikes.
Tested using stone daggers with no points in agility or grit. Guess i’ll have to wait and see how this impacts fully leveled characters. I’ve yet to run into thralls, but all the creatures are able to attack non-stop… no stamina issues for them.
So, why was stamina consumption greatly increased and still only applied to players?
Right, which was where the last comment came from in my post. I know npc do not worry about stamina, carry capacity aside from available slots, and so on. They don’t even perish in a sandstorm or from hunger or thirst.
The main point remains that the stamina change makes it impossible to complete even a single light attack sequence for the character described above. Seems imbalanced that the only opponents in the lands with the same restrictions are other players.
No dogs stopping to pant… non-stop attacks. While i’d expect the skeletons and similar non-living opponents to not get tired… that great big elephant on a lazy-susan turntable should get at least a little dizzy from spinning in place without moving its legs, dontcha think?
Opinions vary, but mine is that the stamina change feels excessive. Perhaps that will change over time, but i was already annoyed by the current live stamina feeling too quickly drained… and now that drain has been quadrupled.
The difficult part will be getting leveled and getting geared. Every weapon tier except for perfected hardened steel and legendary weapons have been balanced with the reduced HP of creatures and some NPCs.
Stone weapons actually deal between 30-50% less than they did, but darfari have had their hp reduced from 190 to 120 for example. At the same time, legendary weapons have 10-20% more damage than they did before, you can see how these weapons are doing 40-70% more damage than current state. (enemy hp reduced by 30-50% + 10-20% more weapon damage)
And yes, until you have 160-200 stam you won’t do a full combo, but when you can with an endgame weapon, you will crush everything in your path and there are no penalties for running out of stamina for now.
Enemies have had simulated exhaustion for a very long time now btw… surprised you haven’t noticed it.
They will periodically stop attacking for 1-2 seconds at a time after doing their half-combos…
So no, I don’t see an issue with this.
Second, attack combos are still useless in PvP, because people can ALWAYS roll away. Now even more, because there is no more out of stamina state in the game. Look at the clip from 2018 below, where you had to wait 4.5 (!!) seconds due to exhaustion in order to act again (dodge roll, attack, sprint etc.)
Third, the stamina usage makes weapon combos even more useless. There are builds where you can’t even perform a full combo.
At this point, you can go back to the 2017 hack and slash combat system again. The thoughts and work that Oscar has put into the system got completely shredded by you guys now.
I just spec 20 Grit wearing Abyssal armor and using the Abyssal maul and I get 3 light attacks or 3 heavy attacks before out of stamina. This change to stamina is extreme especially to anyone who wants to play as a sorcerer. You can’t do a combo even spec full Grit. Doing 20 Grit limits you really bad on everything else. Please do more testing because this is harsh. It was bad enough dealing with low stamina before the change.
There are a couple options that can still work assuming you won’t be using thralls
S( A V build - Get the Sword of Crom or any legendary 2h sword and use Rolling Thrust. Here’s how you fight - Dodge, Special chop attack, do 950 damage, target is dead. If target is not dead, dodge immediately and special chop attack again. Never swing without rolling thrust up, dodging cost is always some percentage of your max.
S/A V G build - Use a LA friendly weapon, Predatory blade, Axe of the Lion now works like this too, or short sword if you fancy agility. Also if you do go end up going AVG you can just do a rolling thrust build with either of the 2 agility 2H legendary swords. (Baal pteor’s razer or Blade of the Adventurer)
Try a hybrid build with either S/A, V, a little grit and minimum 10 in authority for the damage reduction and have a thrall or zombies follow you around. Remember, there isn’t a penalty for running out of stamina. All you need is 1 stam to start a dodge or 1 stam to start an attack. Most creatures had their HP halved and won’t take more than 2 hits if you really go all into damage.
Yes and? Still does not change the fact, that doing weapon combos is useless since they changed it so you get 6 dodge rolls in light armor.
You need to understand, the system works based on hitstagger. If you get staggered, you either tank more hits or you dodge roll out.
Back then, when you did a mistake and lost all your stamina, you entered an exhaustion state which made you vulnerable for 4-5 seconds. This time window was enough for the attacker to perform a full combo to do the lethal blow or perform the last hit of the combo chain, which was most likely very deadly. So doing the mistake to run out of stamina was fatal. Stamina management was needed. So in a fight it was important to pressure your opponent so much, that he/she went into the described exhaustion state.
The current build still has this exhaustion state, but you are never able to perform a full combo, because the enemy will alawys be able to dodge out of it because his stamina regenerates faster thanks to a change that was done in 2021 I think, where you don’t have to wait for your stamina to fully restore anymore.
The new system makes it even worse (or easier). You can always dodge now. Basically rendering weapon combos useless.
Just watch what Oscar (guy on the left) has to say about the “new” combat system in this video and you will understand the role of stamina in a hitstagger + rootmotion combo combat system.
“The stamina is now a resource you will have to manage in combat”
@den and his team now basically made this obsolete.
this is the same as the pause that occurs at the end of a player completing a combo, no matter the remaining stamina. I guess this new system resolved there being any stamina available to even complete combos.
No, they’re actually scripted to pause for much longer periods than what the animation would require.
It was even announced on the 3.0 devstream last year that NPCs will “stop to think”…
I’m not seeing it. This pause thing. must be so brief that it is easy to miss or mistake as ‘lining up the next charge attack’.
But on the plus side, with the change that makes heavy attacks always apply a status effect, at least I don’t have to drive the character to complete a combo with a heavy finisher to get that effect. So there is less/no need to spam multiple heavy attacks and in fact incentive not to.
Yesterday I’ve tested the new patch for a while and to be honest I had some fun. I can speak about PVE combat only but, having to manage my stamina and find the right way and timing to when to attack and when to retreat was kinda fun for me. Knowing that every fight is a huge risk (at low levels at least) gave me a thrill. I am sure that there are tweaks to the system needed but I think this changes to the combat system can be a good thing.
Oh btw, have you tried to see if you can regen a tick or two of stamina while still in the combo window?
They said regen kicks in super fast now, so I wonder if you can get some stamina back between swings if you delay it just enough that you’re still within the combo window and squeeze out an additional hit like that maybe at the end.
I’ve not tried that… then again I was struggling to survive three dogs piling up on my unarmored stone dagger wielding shipwreck survivor on the beach…
From videos i’ve seen online, higher level characters have much less of an issue dealing with the change, and in some ways is an improvement. But with a starter, this is a severe hit.
Doesn’t seem like it. The stamina regen on Sword of Crom is definitely more than 0.1 seconds so it still takes awhile to get 1 point of stamina to be able to swing again or dodge. Not as much as before, mind you, but definitely not almost instantaneous. *Unless you are fully leveled. Once I hit 60 and specced into Grit completely, I could use Sword of Crom almost regularly.
