Testlive-patch-13-06-2020 HATE list still broken

Sure if you set it to do it but if you do not its a bug.

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Its not a change, they have said its a bug, they have taken the reports to get them fixed but hey hope you enjoy all your T4 named thralls being killed before you get them by their faction mates. Enjoy.

Yeah, different classes attacking different classes, I have no problem…

So volcano human would also attack mounds of the dead human.

But volcano human shouldnt attack another volcano human.

Rocknoses shouldnt attack other rocknoses. Same with snakes and everything else.

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Same, i agree with you Croms.
i actually quite like it, eventhough it might be frustrating to miss some good girls from the volcano because of “Erii adn Co”'s blood rage.
But as it is, it’s ok and i enjoy watching npcs as well as animals giving at each other. It feels much more dynamic now. keep it up boyz but be carefull to not endanger some rare species…

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Ok there are a few aspects of this which I will need to tease out, as I agree with you in some parts and disagree in others.

This is the part which I agree with you on. I think that factions should not be attacking their own T4s or bearers. For example, I have seen voltaries of skelos attacking kisthis fleshterer and tma the slithering before. I could rationalise this as them being a sinister and ruthless faction, but I wont. Aside from that, I like the changes. For the first time the environment feels more alive, and like we we are not the only adversary in the world. Ok time for examples.

Nature wise → Crocodiles are now hunting gazelles (as opposed to living in perfect harmony with them) and battling spiders. Imps which are maddened savage little beings attack everything they happen across, including baby shalebacks now. Cruel yes, but then so is nature. As far as the in-fighting between certain animals (eg-snakes, rocknoses) goes, I do not mind. It is common in nature for (example) different species of snake, spider, bird, etc etc to kill and consume other variations of the same species. Heck here in Australia, spiders even eat snakes! :smiling_imp:

Volcano wise → I enjoy watching the the voltaries of skelos do battle with rocknose kings, and also the other ‘pilgrims’ dressed in reptilian armor. I do acknowledge as @jot29 pointed out that at times, yes they attack T4 craftsmen, however I just dive in and defend them, usually having little difficulty drawing their aggro.

Relic Hunter wise → It always bothered me that the townsfolk treated the bandits as one of their own and defend them. Every single time I battled the bandits, other citizens would start attacking me (aiding the bandits) instead of them! Even if they instigated the violence in the first place. Previously, if a gate guard had a confrontation with a scorpion, he would then come and attack me, as if I were at fault. Now they just return to their duties afterwards. And regarding Szeth, he is just the town drunk and not part of the expedition. Im not surprised they try to kill him.

Anyway this is just my own personal point of view on the issue. Everything just seemed a little to peaceful beforehand, in a land which is supposed to be frought with constant danger and hardship. I did enjoy your analogy however.

PS-thanks @roro4066 oro and @ninefow, you guys pretty much capture my thoughts on the matter.


Why do you want bugs to become game play additions lol but makes it easier for Funcom one more bug they can now leave in the game.

Flying rhinos, unconscious NPC’s on bindings going through teleport with you… I’m not saying they shouldn’t fix it. Just giving some examples from the past.

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Is this actually a bug though, or is it an intended change? Serious question, no sarcasm or rudeness intended. Heaventhere generally speaking I do not want bugs to be a part of the game, and for that matter the majority of the playerbase do not. To date there has only been one (1) other bug which I wanted to see left in the game since launch day, and that is the flying rhino bug, which I personally found charming and humorous.

Again, I would like to see this tweaked so that factions will cease attacking their own T4s and Bearers. Fine by me. But some of the other changes such as crocodiles attacking gazelles, predators attacking one another and king rocknose (a demon mind you!) actually attacking people, as opposed to ignoring all of them aside from our character is a good move, and realistic too. Heaventhere I am not dismissing your opinion here as invalid buddy, because it is as much as my own or anyone elses. What I am saying here is just that I feel differently about (well most…) of the changes attached to this. Although I hope that I am mistaken, I will wager that it will get patched out in time.


I haven’t seen it mentioned as an intended change in patch notes, but I might be wrong. If it’s intended, then it’s a really bad idea. I’m totally fine with making the Votaries faction hostile towards players. But the problem is that the Votaries fighters and archers are attacking Votaries crafters and that makes no sense. I know getting quality crafters should be difficult, but this is not the right way to do that.


Are the ‘pilgrims’ (the NPCs dressed in reptilian armor) as I call them actually Voltaries of Skelos though? They may well be tagged as such, I am honestly not sure. I am not sure that story wise they are supposed to be part of their faction. I stand open to correction though. It is probablly a similar scenario with Bandits being tagged as Relic Hunter faction.

In terms of the voltaries attacking the pilgrims, just go and help them, its not even hard, and it takes time even for a voltarie to kill a T4 craftsmen. I have only had one failed rescue attempt that I can recall so far. It is not hard to draw their aggro for that matter. It is easy as can be to knock out NPCs now; this actually adds some more, albeit not much, more challenge into the mix.

That’s how you spawn them from the admin menu, yeah. But even their faction is not Votaries of Skelos, I still don’t understand why they would be fighting NPCs from their own faction. If you want to see what I mean, here are the steps to reproduce it:

  1. Teleport into the volcano.
  2. Head away from the obelisk, towards that exit that would take you to the White Dragon in the frost.
  3. Before you reach the exit, there’s a crossroads of sorts. To the right, there’s a short bridge over the lava, with a fighter and an archer. If they haven’t been killed recently, they’ll start fighting the “living magma” monster across the bridge.
  4. Cross that bridge yourself and keep going until you reach the point where the staircase to the Devotees is on your left and the bridge to the Terrace of the Tenders is on your right.
  5. Turn right and cross that bridge. There’s a fighter on it. Escape from the fighter, so it’s not chasing you anymore.
  6. Go back to the Terrace of the Tenders and observe the fighter fighting the alchemists there.

Take especial note of the fact that the fighter didn’t aggro the alchemists initially, unlike the first two NPCs that targeted the living magma monster right away. Only after coming back from the chase did the fighter target other NPCs.

That smells like a bug.

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I know exactly where you mean; the path towards, then the bridge and space between the Shrine of the Oracle and the Terrace of Tenders. That is my favourite place to watch it all unfold. :smiling_imp: I find they often do initiate aggro before they percieve my presence. An example? Ok approach the said bridge, from the other side. In the garden full of volcanic plants to the to the right of the centre island or ‘roundabout’ and bridge, there is a voltarie attacking them.

But putting that aside, bug or not, I am all in favor of keeping it aside from the exception I previously noted. If a group of warriors in the Hyborian world sees a ‘rock demon’ they should attack it and not try to live in harmony with it. In addition to this, if a sinister faction such as the Voltaries of Skelos see someone loitering nearby their sacred shrine, they should attack them and not be cool with it. Just as the whole town of Sepermeru should not try to kill us for defending ourselves against violence instigated by a horde of bandits trying to rob and kill us.

I ask you, which of these scenarios makes more sense…? (*keeping in mind the exception I outlined above)

Human NPCs fighting the wildlife and monsters, predators fighting prey, all of these are behaviors I like and support. Inter-faction conflicts between NPCs would also be great, but that hasn’t been the case at all so far, because the factions never meet anywhere on the map.

If Funcom decided to add inter-faction conflict, I would definitely not expect them to do so with crafters. You wouldn’t send your carpenter into the volcano to fight the Votaries’ fighters, would you?

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I agree. That’s very similar to what Sepermaru guards used to do before the leashing mechanic was added, before the AI update 40. When scorpions or rhinos got too close, assuming the NPC survived, they would attack you after they finished the creature.

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That is is good, I agree. I would also go a step further and say that predators should also fight each other, just as many do in the wild. Moreover, that is largely what we already have now. It needs only a couple of minor tweaks, as opposed to reversion.

@CodeMage and @bbtech. Gentlemen I am going to debunk this right now, and also provide you directions on how you can replicate this experiment yourselves. I will repeat what I said earlier. The Voltaries will currently aggro at the Pilgrims regardless of the players presence; not due to aggro transferance. Here is how you can test it:

Start a Singleplayer game and allow Admin rights. Go into the Admin Panel and activate ‘cloak’. Start about here on G,13 on the map, just east of the Terrace of Tenders facing back towards it to the west. Now go in that direction until you encounter this (I call it the roundabout):

Go around the roundabout on the right and straight into the garden directly in front of the lava stream (marked above). There will be 1 voltarie, a cook and at times a second craftsman, usually an alchemist, both ‘pilgrims’. Watch as the voltarie attempts to kill the pilgrims, while cloak is active (ie-it is not aggro direct towards us carrying over to them).

His aggro cannot be attributed to the player character, as they are unable to percieve us. To further this case, I then crossed the small bridge over the lava, heading towards the Shrine of the Oracle. There is a wandering craftsman nearby. In this instance it was a taskmaster. Upon approaching the bridge, the voltarie attacked her. Cloak was still active.

Does this this prove that this is not a bug, or that the new hate list itself is a bug/unintended? No of course not. However it does demonstrate that the aggro from voltaries directed towards pilgrims is not generated as a result of transferance from the player character. On the subject of the Hate List more generally, I will draw focus to this in the most recent hotfix:

This is a very specific and targeted fix, not a complete change or, restoration to the previous list. Again this does not outright prove the cahnges were intended, but it does give further ground to the prospect.


There is one thing to consider, Croms, you can never hide from the server and your existence in the cell will initiate interactions.

Having said that, distance does play a part, even in the same software cell.

Regardless, the hate list does need more tweaking, but not breaking. The interactions need to be faction related, but not faction to same faction.

For instance, around J5 the hyenas (previously) always attacked the NPCs at the nearby camp and still should. The NPCs within the camp should not fight since, well, it’s their camp.





the roundabout

I’m calling it that from now on. :grinning:

I loaded my save from inside the volcano, dismissed my follower, activated cloak, and ported to that spot of the first image in your post. As soon as I arrived, a fighter was attacking a cook. I tried to get a screencap, but it was over too quickly.

And the fighter next to the spider, also kills the carpenter next to him. As soon as you are in the area.

All reported long time ago: NPC-fighters in the gas-fields at the volcano dont like other NPCs

Fun-fact: You can pull that one aggro-fighter near the gas-fields up to the shrine, where he/she also kills everyone else :smiley:

No the fighter type would aggro on you even in the haze dream, now they attack the people they should guard.

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