Ahh gawd… the ol “meta” junk. Yeah, everyone is running around with perk 5 in encumbrance. I mean… its EVERYWHERE. Its so OP.
I get PVP hate cause of bombs…
Anyone who has had to make runs up and down map…over and over and over even with Max Enc… would be forced to do it 100fold…
gameplay should be fun…not torture. Same as run/walk and roll changes… there pushing realism element, and pvp element… at certain point you just got to back off if its gonna make gameplay trash in grind/gather department.
Better off setting limits to how many Explo arrows and jars and certain things make them a person can have on them at any time.
Or something silly like, Player carrying explosive jars have -50% def and 10% chance to explode when hit. (which could be 100% damage to user holding, and 10% to those around them to prevent trolling or player running up to wall waiting to pop which gives them incitenive to place it before that happens)
You could make jars a equippable. So that its a Visual item they carry when its needs to be used. (limit amount they have)
Or even, Make Stones and Woods weigh so much when 5th perk is on. So not all items work or trigger it.
You could even just rework Enc to reduce weight of stone(s) wood(s) as you put points in it. But like above, only effects those items. Someone with 40 jars of bombs is not gonna be able to run with them.
You could also rework Vase, 1 Vase is for housing, Make new “Explosive Vase” (or Jar) that weighs 50.0 So it stand out for its purpose and use. (and again…count against player if there over weight. (like above, so they’ll walk like a snail)
This way people in PVE or SP or just Gathers of items wont be forced into Hellish gameplay cause some peeps run into battle loaded up on explosives like its Helms Deep Water way.
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So am I, this thread started out as a discussion to see if we could find a middle ground, it failed miserably and became a war of words(sometimes nicely wrapped insults) trying to shoot down any idea to how a possible change of the 5th perk, simply because some don’t want that perk to change in any way.
Maybe it will or maybe it won’t, only time will tell, they brought Alex in on this game a little more than a year ago, and he want to change some things, among those the 5th encumbrance perk, so far he has made some big changes, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there are changes coming that might stir the water… I’ll also bring popcorn 
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I am sorry to say that and I don´t mean it as an insult in any way but, Alex has no glue how pvp works in Conan on rl servers, nether does most of the Funcom stuff. They sit behind their desks and test stuff in an internal environment and listen to some playerfeedback here and there and pick what they think is right and then change it. This game has a long road of try and error. First they introduce something, some weeks later it gets nerfed, some month later it gets removed and replaced with something else. It gets hyped in streams and explained why it was replaced and then the whole thing starts all over again.
Every time Funcom replaces one thing with another people adapt to the new. And they do not only adapt they cheat the whole system again. And they do so until its changed again. This game has not yet seen some kind of persistency. And thats the reason its not envolving the way it should be.
Middle ground would assume a change is necessary/needed. As is very apparent, many of us believe one is not. Compromise for the sake of compromise is why everything seems to get perpetually nerfed in this game.
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[quote=“FrogBiscuit, post:330, topic:103239, full:true”]
The reason you see so many arguments come from the perspective of each individual gamers play style is precisely because this is a sandbox game. Its a game directed at many play styles.[/quote]
Right, but even a sandbox game needs direction. Catering to all kinds of play-styles will not work. Taking to many compromises creates a worse experience for everyone.
There are probably people way more experience in CE than me, but from a general perspective, having a mechanic, that makes a number of other mechanics irrelevant, is questionable. Personally I’d argue, that CE is a survival game foremost and the ability to build stuff is primarily “just” a means to end. Therefore PvP and PvE balance should not be affected in a negative way.
Well thats a shame. I thought we were going to get past the pointless back and forth bickering of this thread and actually into a discussion. Its been the effort now of 350+ posts and we never seem to be able to discuss the why…
We had a hard enough time getting the ‘why’ out, but even then, those that want it gone disappear when we actually get to conversation.
How can there be a valid enough reason to mess with the perk when the people that want it gone can’t even stay to talk about the topic?
Oh well… Maybe its a lost cause…
I wouldn’t hold your breath for this change as you have implied several times.
I don’t want to dash your hopes but Funcom themselves has essentially said this change isn’t going to happen. So unless they completely back track on their words (which I know has been done in the past, so here’s to taking them at their word) you wont be seeing the encumbrance perk going anywhere.
After the momentum debacle, Alex and crew admitted to too big of core game changes and reverted the change. I don’t think they will take such drastic measures moving forward as not only would one hope they learned the reason of backlash to such drastic core game changes, they wouldn’t repeat the mistake again.
Best wishes all the same though. I hope the continued existence of the perk doesn’t ruin your game time.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it 
My view is however a bit different, maybe because I have played a ton of games with similar survival, crafting and building features, and I have never once seen a game where progression and general limits have been so generous - That in itself wouldn’t be too bad if it weren’t for the fact that most online CE servers are buggy as hell mainly because of this.
Funcom has had a history of going overboard with new features…
Weapons with 100% AP that made armor useless.
Lifeblood spear that healed faster than you could damage a player
Generally adding features that were too good to be true.
Like I said, I love Conan Exiles, but I can also see that their vision of a grand game with unlimited building, powerful weapons to create huge battles etc.
A lot of the features wouldn’t be bad if only the official server weren’t hit so hard by the amount of pressure it puts on them, and no matter how much they try to optimize the game, the servers will likely never reach a level of stability where you can play on high populated servers with little to no lag, rubberbanding and glitches because the servers struggle to handle it.
I’ve said it before the 5th encumbrance perk is only a part of the problem, the unlimited building system is a huge problem, there is nothing stopping you on pve servers, buildings don’t have a general decay over time forcing you to maintain them.
Also there aren’t any landclaim/building cost(tax system), all you have to do is repair damaged building pieces from a possible purge and visit your bases once a week and you are good to go.
Conan Exiles tries to utilize many of the popular aspects from simulation/mmorpg and other survival games while keeping pvp/pve and singleplayer as one game with roughly same rules, and that will never work well.
Oh and not everything gets nerfed…
They have indeed put a thrall limit and level system into the game, but at the same time they have become more powerful than ever before.
As far as I can see they have nerfed almost all dungeons bosses so much that you can with a little care and spec’ing solo them both fast and easily without a thrall.
They have increased most stacking of resources by 10 times, which btw does have one good feature, you need less chests in your bases.
They have given us a lot more powerful upgrade options for armor/tools/weapons that makes everything much easier.
Yes some things gets nerfed too much(some new leg. weapons), but overall I see way more buffs than nerfs.
I see no other solution for them than to separate official server from singleplayer/private servers + PVP and PVE much more when adding and changing features, sort of treating them as sort of different games, or try to find a middle ground which they haven’t been succesful at so far.
Some have said that Conan Exiles is more of a simulation with heavy focus on building and decorating, I have to agree on that when looking back on what the game started out as, it’s not a bad thing, it just doesn’t work well with their official online servers.
And now I may be derailing a bit more, but I could see CE going in a RP direction with focus on character types, factions, trading and such, but the current system where you can respec attributes and features won’t work well with several of these aspects.
For example trading, there’s little point in that since any high level player is able to unlock all features and can craft anything themselves or just respec if they want something they haven’t unlocked.
I have a feeling that Tencent will buy Funcom, and that will likely mean a lot of changes coming, yes it will mean more money for development, but it may also mean that the Conan Exiles we know today will be much different in the future, and that can scare me a bit.
There’s no doubt Conan Exiles has been a huge success for Funcom and saved them from bankruptcy , the game has sold really well, but they have never been able to keep a steady playerbase or even come close to some of the games they like to compare to, this is probably something a company like Tencent has a big focus on which could mean micro transactions, p2w stuff, subscription based games, dlc and what else they can think of…
Better stop now 
You will always get me to agree that server settings are a good thing. If there’s a toggle switch for an admin to say “hey, I dont want the 5th enc perk” thats fine by me as long as on another server, they can have it. Thats how you’ll get real answers over time as to what actually helps server performance and what do people actually ENJOY playing. Its the one size fits all that bugs me to no end.
As to trading, I trade with friends all the time as the guy on the server who has everthing, and the reason is simple; I HATE farming brick, even with the 5th perk. It is the most tedious thing in the game. I would rather hunt thralls all day and trade them to friends who can all make hard brick. I traded some kilns for h brick just the other day so that they could do it faster without needing the maproom recipes.
Conan may be marketed as a survival game, but I think it would be Funcom’s mistake to ever say “is that what people want in a survival game?” When the question should really be “is that what people want in a Conan game?” Survival as a genre has literally one point, to survive, a trait shared with all other games except they also have PLOT. I would rather Funcom tone down the survival aspect in favor of some color and story.
I don’t disagree with you. But this sandbox does have direction. Its not like our options are limitless. The key aspects of this game are survival, building, thralling, and PvP. Sub-sets of that are things like Dungeons, Mounts, storyline.
There may be more, but those are the main themes. You could throw in player created content like RP as well I suppose.
So the focus doesn’t need to be very spread. But it would be in Funcom’s best interest to not trample over one of those categories in favor of another.
Solutions should be designed so at best, all the categories above are effected positively, at worst, none of the above categories are negatively effected to adjust a single area of play.
But it doesn’t.
For starters, it doesn’t even make Encumbrance irrelevant. Its a choice to dedicate that many points into the stat. If you do, you are crippled in every other type of build in the game. It comes at a heavy cost. Not to mention the draw back of the major stamina drain you get for picking up the perk.
It certainly doesn’t make the other stats irrelevant. I don’t think anyone can argue that the enc perk replaces the other stat-lines…
So really, it doesn’t make anything irrelevant at all. So it certainly doesn’t make anything else irrelevant in the game. Even the stat encumbrance itself, due to the perk coming with downsides, has plenty of relevance.
We have had plenty of people come into the thread (from either side of the discussion) that have claimed they never even use the perk. So its not a must have. People arn’t forced into this choice. Its pretty clear that is a weighed choice some players don’t even see the value in.
So if you reduce the perks effectiveness, wheres the desire of stating max enc? Not only do you lose the purpose of max enc, but you remove a mechanic that many people rely on to enjoy the game (simple because we don’t get into the other aspects of the game as much).
This is just your assertion. I dont begrudge you for it. I understand many people have got this game due to the survival aspect.
However its advertised as a: survival, open world, crafting, building, and more… game.
On Funcom’s main site they advertise the game as a open world sandbox games with multiple activities. Its not even really pushed as a ‘survival’ game.
I understand its a survival game foremost for you. Its a open world sandbox game that presents a great building system for me.
We have had some details on how it effects PvP, but it doesn’t seem that drastic of a problem.
If it truly is, it should be adjusted in a way that solves the problem for PvP specifically, not in a way that causes more problems (which it does for PvE).
PvE is not affected in a negative way at all by this perk. Not a single person in 353 posts has given a real reason for why PvE hurts from this. So far everyone that has discussed the PvE side has just discussed their personal preference for how fast or slow things should take in PvE, however, there hasn’t been a single reason that negatively effects the player base as a whole, just individuals.
So out of all of this, at most, we should be discussing and theorizing a good solution for the PvP side of the issue if the problem is actually the glaring. If its not, we should let sleeping dogs lie, as futzing around with mechanics that don’t really need to be messed with is a recipe for disaster.
As mentioned just above, as Funcom experienced with the momentum change, they stated themselves that they didn’t want to make drastic core game changes like that moving forward. Removing or gutting the encumbrance perk fits into that category of core game change that would negatively effect many players and the basics of what they do in the game.
It never even got into the discussion. It was a fight to get the reasons for why people even want to remove the perk.
Now that we got the reasons to discuss, people that want the perk are leaving without any discussion taking place.
I’m sorry that this has been a touchy subject for you guys. The only insults that were thrown out were from those that left the discussion with out even trying… Being on the receiving end of them, I can tell you now that discussing ideas you are opposed too may require a little thicker skin.
We were discussing the few solutions provided… Expressing contention isn’t ‘shooting down’. Does everyone need to just agree with you (the general you) for a discussion to actually take place? Because not much would be gained from that.
How about on the flip side, when ever the idea of working around the perk to resolve the issues people are claiming it causes, not once did someone from that side of the discussion even respond to them (even out of contention) let alone get into a debate of how things could work?
So hypocritical much? Can we only discuss solutions that are appealing to you? You can rationalize why my solutions presented wouldn’t work just as others have responded to those given so far…
Alex doesn’t like the perk. He never mentioned anything about changing it.
Funcom has stated, after the momentum debacle that they don’t want to make drastic core game play changes going forward. You’re right. It could go either way. I personally hope Funcome sticks to their words and are careful when approaching this topic and if they do touch it, aim at the actual problems, not cause any more.
I’m sorry we could never actually get a discussion going… Your right in that it failed. Although, I don’t really agree that it ever started. It needed a foundation first, and when we finally got that, people are leaving rather then discussing.
If the topic can’t be discussed and given actual reason for, why remove the perk?
This thread has gone novel in length.
I’m starting to lean towards using a pot for temporary encumbrance perk. Let’s say the pot grants +5 enc for one hour. Sure, people will then put 45 in enc and then use the pot for the + 5 = 50. That’s fine.
The +3 pots work like that.
This thread was suppose to break middle ground?
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First, I want to say thank you for the excellent post.
It really does seem this is the best for all worlds and maybe imagining/discussing solutions past this is pointless. I certainly hope that server specific settings are on their way as many of the contested issues would most likely be resolved by this. (Better hardware as well, but god knows the chance of that happening).
The issue with this is that we are 2 years into the game. Even with tencent acquisition, completely remodeling the game happens virtually to no game (save those that hit a brick wall right at release… No Man’s Sky, FFIX… etc…).
But there comes a time where the game can’t really be considered early access anymore. This doesn’t mean I want development to stop for the game. However, there is a responsibility of the game dev’s to keep the product in some form the product their customers originally purchased.
A new Conan Exiles might be able to achieve all the desirable ideas from these forums… However, we are on a old game engine, on sub par servers, with limited resources. From the thrall update, its apparent that big changes may often come at the cost to other areas of the game.
Its fully understandable that some people don’t care that much. But I think its perfectly reasonable that others would be worried, or negatively effected by the ‘changes with a cost’ if they were to come.
Im all for adding and expanding to the game. We just happen to be in a situation where additions have to be very careful in the fact (at least in this games history) they often come at a cost to portions of the playerbase.
Fair enough and all good.
Thank you for your input thus far.
My god yes…
Enc perk discussion aside. Hardened brick is the bane of my existence.
That ship has sailed a long, long time ago.
It was, and it failed miserably. Notable points, for me, were:
- Refusal to even discuss the topic because it included polls. And that coming from a player who is very vocally pushing his opinion on the perk in a variety of other threads.
- Certain PVE players insisting that nobody should touch that perk and generally treating every argument as “it’s your opinion” and stopping there, instead of asking more questions to understand that opinion.
- Frequent snide remarks belittling other people’s arguments and opinions unnecessarily, from both of the “entrenched sides” of the discussion.
- People ignoring follow-up questions to their arguments in favor of “bashing the other side” and getting pissy when called out on it.
- Insistence on hyperbole like calling the perk or the removal of it “game breaking”.
Honestly, this thread has outlived its purpose a long time ago and it has devolved mostly into a cesspool of selfish people stonewalling any remaining efforts to try to get to the original point, which was to examine how and why this perk might be a problem and what can be done about it.
Kudos to the few valiant souls who are still trying, but I hope you guys learn the same lesson I did: unless you have full moderator rights and time and will to exercise them without fear, trying to establish a reasonable discussion with random people on Internet is a damn nightmare.
The only positive thing this thread has brought me, personally, is the realization that I’m wasting my time on these forums and that it’s better if I just go back to lurking and posting very occasionally. Hopefully, Funcom will continue killing my interest in the game with their ultra-buggy patches and failed promises to communicate better, so I can free up even more of my time.
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Oh that is just a dreadful outcome. This thread was, at one point, the heights of experimentation and collaboration. And then personalities chafed, and rebuffed, and still you persisted. It was an inspiration to lowly formerly one-post with a mic-drop people like me. Your persistence and stamina deserve kudos and appreciation. Warmly.
I think funcom/tencent rather have more players in the game. When I get wiped, I know the feeling of wanting to quit. If a player only gets the cold shoulder, they’ll leave finding no fun. See the problem?
It is a matter of fun. I’m glad there are alpha clans that do a little RP with others, and do not raid every chance they get.
What’s the alternative? Having the raiders bust your base open, and (bombing) letting everything out of their container/station only to decay. Everything. See, these perps didn’t want to loot anyway. They didn’t pickup even with the 5 enc. Depressing… all that work.
I’d attest it hadn’t even had a chance to get started…
But no reason to discourage it when it actually has a chance to take place.
Pretty clear this is pointed at me. I wanted to discuss the issue. But conflicting view and explaining why isn’t part of the discussion? When I understood the presented point, I either agreed, asked for further information, or disagreed and presented why.
How are you suggesting the conversation should go?
And this one as well. Just because it wouldn’t stop you from further playing the game, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t for others. Or you asserting you know how everyone would react to changes to this from the onset?
This certainly has been a difficult subject to get into. There is no denying that. But from the very start I have been open to any area of discussion about the perk, but the entire focus has seemed to be on either its removal or heavy handi-capping of it. Of course I would present opposing opinion to this until someone provides reasonable reason to take such action in the first place.
I have had several posters go from calling my opinion irrelevant because ‘I don’t listen to facts’ when I just wasn’t agreeing with his opinion, as well as dismiss my opinion and how I enjoy playing the game as ‘pointless’. Other then pointing it out, I shrugged it off in preference of continuing the conversation. I don’t think I have insulted a single player once and I am sorry for the misunderstanding if anyone feels that way, it certainly wasn’t the intent.
Im sorry you feel this thread failed. Conversations need to be more then one sided…
I don’t know. Maybe we are only capable of single post explanations and leave it at that. Would be nice to actually converse back and forth though.
No, it’s most definitely not pointed at you and I’m surprised you would think that. You’re one of the people who have actually persisted in trying to discuss things instead of simply dismissing the opponent’s view and you’ve kept trying even after I’ve stopped.
This one does include you, I’m afraid, but it includes others who called the perk itself or even obelisks “game breaking”. It causes the discussion to devolve into ridiculous pseudo-arguments such as “I’ve started playing and built a 6x6x2 base and I didn’t need the perk, therefore it’s not game breaking.”
Yeah, there’s been a lot of FYGM in this thread, both from the “the perk must go because I don’t use it” camp and “don’t you dare touch my perk” camp. And a lot of personal attacks, too.
If anything in my post was intentionally directed at you, it was the following: