What about Poor Mitra?

I know everyone is theory crafting about the new update but it raises my concerns about an overlooked aspect of the game. Mitra!!! Murdering people to get their essence. This is not a Mitra thing to do. Now as we await the possibilities of sorcery it makes me wounder. How shafted is the Mitra RPer going to be? How does a Mitrain priest play a holy man when he needs to be corrupted and bleed people out to do magic?

I really really hope Funcom stops forgetting about the God of Justice.
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I’ma aware that the Gods are basically knock offs based on what the followers believe. If you scooped up a church full of Roman Catholics and dropped them in the Exiled lands. Their shared idea of God would be flawed because humans are flawed. Thus creating a sort of correct but still not totally correct kind of God.

The in-game mechanics don’t align with the in-game lore, when it comes to Mitra. In-game Mitra is still the God of justice. His followers building the giant foot still talk of peace and understanding. Yet you need to kill people to gain favorer at the alter. As LostBrythuian stated “Mitra is the only one whose sham religion requires violation of a fundamental tendency of the faith to practice.”

Mitra feels overlooked and out of place in the game itself. I’m trying to draw attention to that. If the game mechanics do him dirty as it is. What will adding sorcery do to him?

Does this make more sense?

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A holy man should not be dabbling in sorcery.

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It would be cool if there was some kind of ‘anti-sorcery’ component added to Mitra.

  • Maybe the spear (Staff of Epemitreus) or sword (Phoenix-engraved Sword) does extra damage to a corrupted individual?
  • Maybe the Feast of Mitra grants extra “armor” protection for a limited time against sorcery attacks (spells)?
  • Maybe the Statue of Guidance (like a short range AoE) and Statue of Refreshment (when you drink from the fountain) grant corruption cleansing effects?
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I have a staff of epididymus… not sure that helps

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The Darfari makes Staffs of Epidermis.

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:point_up_2: Agreed!

You are missing the point.

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The simple answer is the most correct.
If Mitra does not accept blood sacrifice…
And
The entity that answers at the Shrine of “Mitra” happily accepts the harvest of murder and rewards with power while having no objections to being neighbours with a Set altar…

Then whatever answers at the “Temple to Mitra” is most certainly not Mitra.
But that’s already called out directly in game.
These “holy” shrines are just crude sorcery stations that rely on psycho-drama and what the cultist/sorcerer thinks a weaponization of that God should look like.

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We will have to wait for the livestream to be sure but I expect corruption to still take your max hp and stamina.
In that way the Mitra itens are more than good to beat dead a half hp sorcerer.

If you read the Robert E. Howard Conan stories you will soon realise priests dont do magic in this world, mostly just holy relics or enchantment like the staff or the fenix engraved in the sword.

That is unfortunate but unless we play evil sacrifice thralls we will be out of sorcery, like people that have problem with slavery try not to have thralls, and asked for years for a non slave follower system.

I have read the books. That is part of my point. Is sorcery going to be the end all be all or will there be ways for people who aren’t corrupted to be relevant. I know we won’t know until we know. Just asking the question.

That is an entirely different problem. I would love for mechanics to be in place to stop people from just collecting every religion like baseball cards. A limit per person and per clan. (Configurable of course). The NPCs that follow Mitra still talk and act like a Mitrain would but the mechanics don’t support it. That oversight is what I’m talking about. It makes sense for Yog, Ymir, Set, and Jabal to get favore for killing people. ( Derketo is the wrong God entirely but that’s another topic for another thread). Mitra needing to go out and murder to gain favore just dosen’t add up.

If the Devs care about lore so much then why is poor Mitra getting the shaft?

Because as Conan says in Seperemu and as the Giant King obelisk explains near the Disjunction, none of these Avatars or faiths are legit.

A thing being fueled by psychodrama means a person can act as a worthy believer and have things work. It also means that less than reasonable persons get what they want. Given the transactive nature of the Giant King’s association with Set, it stands to reason that the magic woven to look like faith would take a similar form in the Exiled Lands.
As for Siptah… Blame the perforated reality from constant surges and the insidious presence of all the elder shenanigans.

The only “God” that should work the way the Exiled Lands religions work is Set. Even then, it’s still a little stretch. However, it’s all the Giant King’s knew.
The Lord of Empty Abodes may be playing along for the inscrutable LoLs.
What we know of Ymir is that he is very protective of his daughter and likes to eat hot human hearts. Yet we don’t offer hearts at his shrine…
Jhebbal Sag wants meat and mates, but also commands Jhil and Jullah.
Derketo… well, the game wouldn’t be able to be sold in consoles in the U.S. if that faith was canonical.
None of them work quite right. But then again they aren’t supposed to. It’s “wrong” on purpose because it’s all remnant Giant King cluckery.

Also, that Muriel and her people are decent doesn’t detract from the maniacs at Mitra’s Serenity or the “Priests” associated with the Black Hand.
If we went by whether they talk or fight, by raw number Set followers are the most benevolent. Seperemu is full of snake cultists who are non-hostile.

At the end of the day, the Giant Kings (and other Elders by implication) don’t comprehend religion other than transactive exchanges for power with the harvest from a sacrifice as the commodity offered. Thus all the “religions” in their magically reinforced annexes work by those rules.

That said, this one would love to see more legitimate props and options for the faithful down the road. The Statue of Refreshment is probably the best example of a proper Mitrean placeable. Perhaps sometime after the Age of Sorcery, there will be an Age of the Gods?
An option for bringing bound foes back to a shrine of Mitra or Derketo (or Jhebbal Sag, if ladies or the young of predators or does) for… redemption or… other activities… would be nice. At least as a way of generating favour.

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You’re just not getting what I’m saying.

I agree with this though.

I think we all understand that you want a different system for Mitra that supports the way you have chosen to RP a priest of that faith. It might also be that perhaps it is you that is misunderstanding what’s being suggested:

Is it time to update the way you RP your priest? Perhaps portraying the ruse of a faithful servant will grant you Mitra’s favor, while in fact, you’re indeed corrupt in heart and soul.

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Yes thats wears, i liked the way we farmed to Ymir when he was new, then we farmed his offer by chooping woods, so i think all religions neds a rework, spec now when magick come. So al religions get more unik stile!

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To be entirely fair, Mitra is the only one whose sham religion requires violation of a fundamental tendency of the faith to practice.

Everyone else can claim to at least not be engaging in direct blasphemy. Of divine patrons available, only Mitra explicitly forbids human sacrifice, and yet, it is only through human sacrifice that one advances. That does break immersion of anyone both wants “Mitra’s” in game favour and wants to act in accordance to doctrine. Likewise this one believes that Mitra is the only wide worshipped God of the Hyborian age that demands exclusivity.
That’s why this one’s focus is on how all of the “religions” are a sham. It’s just much more blatant in the case of Mitra.

The only RP for a Mitrean priest would have to be either corrupt or mad (to the point of blasphemy) zealot. Or just avoiding the altar all together and acting in game as a follower of Mitra would, sans the benefit of the altar.

This one is sympathetic, but also, the “religions” in the Exiled Lands were never meant to be accurate to the rest of the Hyborian. Rough stuff there.

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You too are not getting what I’m saying.

Masmassu gets it. Lets get Jabal blood from animals and lingering essence from undead. Change things to make more sense for the various religions.

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And Slivers of the Unfulfilled from people who were killed while engaging in the act of… um… living, yeah… because Derketo is the goddess of death… so yeah, that works… living.

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Personally I have thought it odd that they went with the snake angle. However, it sort of makes sense now that I’ve had a chance to catch up on this very excellent conversation.

Conan’s IP was acquired by Funcom only in 2021, Sept 14 to be exact. It is possible, but unknown how likely, that they were forced to create avatars and religions that operate a lot like knock-off brands. This might also explain why Avs (although they were disabled for functional reasons) were out of service for so darn long.

Furthermore, the Giant Kings may be a paean or a wicked aside to the Paymasters or IP Attorneys who enforced such strictures. Wouldn’t it be great if we somehow sped back closer to canon in 3.0?

I’m no expert on this lore by any stretch, but of all the gods, isn’t Mitra represented to think and act in a way most “human?” Is it possible that Temple benefits are a test or trap for the unfaithful? If I RP as a Mitra follower, I take the Ambrosia from raids and give it to the poor, and steal home with the Essences where they are put to positive use in my temple. I free them like the kettle of souls in the Scooby Doo live action movie.

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This is usually a sign you should reword what you’re saying so people can get it.

Expanding on what people have said, Mitra in it’s current state is not true to what the religion entails. Almost none of them are accurate. It’s even commented on by Conan when you speak to him, he says these are not gods but weapons idealized to look like gods. Whether you believe this some trick by Nyarlathotep masquerading as gods to be fed sacrifices, or just an oversight of the game is up to interpretation.

Magic as we know it in the hyborian age is inherently linked to religion. The upcoming sorcery system spins this so instead of offering sacrifices to your gods as worship, now you’re performing these sacrifices as payment to some unknown force(s) in exchange for power.

We don’t know if this is going to be linked to the religion system at all, but if you want to play a devout, true Mitraen; just avoid sorcery entirely.

Much as Orastes had forsaken the priesthood to seek the Heart of Ahriman, one would have to walk the same path to seek this dark new power.

Make no mistake, sorcery is evil. There is no “good” magic, beyond blessings bestowed by Mitra directly. Engraved swords, divine guidance, etc.

Personally, I would love a religion rework. It’s been on a lot of people’s wishlists for years now. I hope now that sorcery is coming, the original to-do list for features to add will be “complete”, and they can shift future focus to reworking old content, namely religion.