Where do I go from here!

I miss ignasis :sweat_smile::joy:

Why? Are you saying that if Funcom was to put the name of a person who made an in game report about a player abusing the in game ToS, that Funcom could be held legally responsible in some way for something?

Sorry, not buying that one. But then again, wheres the harm in putting the name of the reporter if:

If its an alt or not used account, then even less to worry about, no?

Wow, what did you sign when you agreed to play Funcom? My bank details are not linked in any way, shape or form to this game.

Buying Crom coins is done through steam (for PC users, not sure on consoles). There is zero chance that Funcom is getting your information of your bank through steam, THAT would violate law. Even then, I dont have my bank account linked to steam either.

I think youre reaching on this. I could be wrong, and maybe people do link their bank accounts to Funcom. Seems rather silly to me, but hey, to each their own.

Which means then, that its already illegal to do anything with that, as we both know something like swatting is illegal.

Making something illegal doesnt stop people from doing it. The attitude that “well, we need to prevent everyone from doing X, because someone might use it and do something illegal” is a great excuse to curb peoples freedoms “in the name of safety”. Yes, Im aware this is a game and that real life freedoms do not exist in here, but I am referring to potential illegal things outside the game (and again, I do not support any activity done to harm people). We are seeing this in Canada right now with our current government, restricting peoples lives and property because “if it saves just one life”

Is the next step just preventing all people from talking on the forums because one person may do something that is already illegal? No, thats never the answer. Punish those that commit a crime, and dont restrict those that follow the laws (or in this case rules).

I know this is an RL tangent, but explain that to our liberal government please.

Sure, in a non mailcious way. And yet somehow, we trust them, their parent companies, and everyone in the gaming industry.

No, I dont want anyones personal information. Ive never asked for that, and I wouldnt advocate for it either. All I said to start this whole thing, was that if Funcom decided to show the reason for a players ban, with the evidence, as a “no, you are 100% wrong and here is why you got banned”, to show who did the report. Heck, I cant even take credit for most of that suggestion as it wasnt my idea.

Why on earth would you resort to illegal real life behaviour as the first response to you breaking ToS in a game?

When you have that answer, you have solved whats wrong with todays society.

I dont like it. Never have, never will. And, again, Ive never advocated for that, since its illegal behaviour.

No its not, and I have no idea how or why people think that.

Lets hypothetically say Funcom implemented this. Lets now assume that we see the same person report building infractions on 10 different servers.

Know what that tells me? The conspiracy theories about people server hopping to purposely look people to ban are indeed correct. It also tells me that those players have zero interest in actually playing the game on a server, but rather want to ruin others game experiences.

It can be considered DOXing, an devs they can be held libel. And facts don’t care if you don’t buy them.

We keep telling you but you “aren’t buying it”.

Read a TOS and a EULA. We keep trying to get it through to you that your forum account is a chain from your post to your bank. Not sure how much simpler we can explain it.
I buy steam cards at walmart. There is still a chain from me buying a DLC and the bank card I used to buy that card. I may take an expert a couple days to do it, but it can be done.

So you never lock your doors, and leave your keys in the car? That is what you are saying, lets not do anything to prevent crimes just punish the criminal once they have committed the crime.

No one wants to ban guns, that is just propaganda being fed to the gullible by the gun lobby. Every time there is a mass shooting in the US the gun lobby plays up “they’re going to use this as an excuse to take your guns away” and gun sales go up. This isn’t about politics this is about an industry using fear ■■■■ and misinformation to over sell a product. Pardon the tangent.

Is it starting to seep in now?

And that is the point, we keep trying to explain it to you but; and I’m not sure how else to say this, you are failing to comprehend the explanation.

:person_facepalming:

Reporting people doesn’t get you banned. I know people don’t want it to be their fault, they want to blame the reporter. But the reporter didn’t build your base, and you don’t get banned for just being reported.

If some one gets banned for just being reported maybe some admin needs to step down.

2 Likes

You kind of stated the obvious here :rofl:

Not sure if you are right there. Also how would you know the difference? and how would you know that you are the cause? That was what I was saying.

Technically there isn’t any AI in games it’s just preset responses to actions but I get what you are saying. Hopefully it does not cheat :grin:

Not really, its a @CodeMage thing. The ToS says no ‘Massive Constructions’ nothing to do with grid squares.

Not my point at all. it’s not for me specifically what I discussed was to hopefully benefit ALL players.

No. I was comparing imposing things in a different way by different people.

BTW I was supporting what you have also asked for by using a building limit as a prevention to a rule being broken so not sure why you are challenging me.

Then how can any company hold any public forum, if any person can get information and doxx someone?

Wouldnt that risk be so intense that its just not worth it? I mean, if they only put a players name in the thread showing who made a report (which actually, goes against our conversation since me typing your name doesnt give any information about you, but rather me), yeah, no information about that person is gotten.

Yup. I dont think that the 0.0000001% chance that someone digs through information to find RL information about a person and actually follows through on that illegal act by committing another illegal act on them is worth being scared of. Others dont want to see that chance being taken (oddly enough, by commenting on here we have all opened ourselves to the very thing you guys are arguing against. To me thats funny!)

Actually, I do lock my doors on my house, but thats due to the contents. I own firearms, and keep them locked up as secured as I can. My vehicles? Keys are in them in my driveway. Id rather a thief attempt to steal my trucks then break into my house when Im asleep. Dont forget, Im in a country where we are not allowed to defend ourselves and will be held criminally responsible for defending ourselves against home intruders.

In a way, yes. In a perfect society where people treated each other with respect, there would be no need to lock things down like Fort Knox. We now live in a drug infused, ■■■■ hole society where theives and criminals are given slaps on the wrist.

The real problem is, people dont have any respect for people, or their property. If I seen a bike on someones lawn, do I take it, or do I walk away? We shouldnt have to lock everything.

Not sure if youre from Canada, but that is exactly what is going on. And the reason it is, is because we dont have a second amendment like the US, and why guns wont be banned in the US. But, I agree, thats a tangent, lets not go much more into that. :smiley:

Are you insinuating that putting someones name on the forums is illegal? Was that the point of your last two quotes of me?

If so, how are people allowed to tag others? Isnt that essentially and potentially doxxing them?

^^ This pretty much explains it. You assume that by putting a name on the forums, that its the path to committing and illegal act. Is this @DeaconElie doxxing you because I tagged you? I mentioned your name. Judging by your comments, it is right?

Youre missing 100% of what I said. Let me try breaking it down.

  • 15 reports come in from the same player about building infractions on 15 different servers (Ill even include that they are indeed worthy of a report)

  • 15 bans come in.

Do you think that person is going to go back and play on those 15 servers, or did that person just jump around looking to get people banned because it gives them either a power trip or they think they are doing the game a service?

Ill guarantee you, I could go onto that many servers and find thinks worthy of a report.

The question is, whats the point if you arent going to play there? Heck, for funzies I hopped onto a server I used to play on. First base I found had foundation spam around it. I laughed when I got a disconnect by their base, and just moved along. How much would you bet that I could hop into another server and find another ban worthy base?

Thats kinda my point…if it aint gonna bother the server you play on, why jump servers to look for things to ban people?

People have tossed that idea around on the forums, that people do that…and its merely a theory. IF Funcom implemented this idea of names, it would either prove or disprove that theory, much the same as showing the evidence of the report that got a player banned proves their guilt.

He is right. That’s how games work. Your own hardware won’t cause the server to lag. Honestly, it’s been years of discussing this, and I’m amazed at how certain myths and misconceptions about the performance just refuse to die. I’m even more amazed at how confidently people propagate those myths. :smiley:

As for how you would know the difference, use the ToggleDebugHUD command. It will show you the “server FPS” as reported by the server itself. It’s not a comprehensive, infallible indicator of server performance, but it’s good enough for average player.

Well, since we’re being pedantic, the rules don’t forbid “massive constructions”.

That’s why I keep telling people that the rules don’t talk about the size of the build, but its effect on the server and on other players. The full quote is:

So you’re not breaking the rules because your construction is massive. You’re breaking the rules if your construction is massive enough to lead to loss of performance both on client and server-side.

You’re right that the rules don’t explicitly state that building over an entire grid square is bannable, and that both @DeaconElie and I are inferring that from what the rules do say. The inference is reasonable – I don’t think it’s possible to build a base that spans a whole grid square without breaking one of the rules – but it’s still just inference.

Now, there are two ways to talk and reason about that. You can be careful about what you claim and say you believe it’s bannable, and then go report it, and observe that, if Funcom gets around to it without letting the ticket auto-close due to its age, the culprit got banned.

Or you can be like @DeaconElie and cut the bullshіt and just claim it’s bannable :wink:

Then again, if you really want to bet your access to official servers on your belief in your ability to build something that spans a whole grid square without 1) blocking access to content, 2) causing server-side performance problems, 3) building walls too far from your buildings, and 4) having a bunch of purely decorative buildings, then be my guest and let me know how it worked out for you :smiley:

Because you assume the risk by voluntarily posting on that public forum. Anything you put there, you put it out of your own free will. Nobody put it there without your consent.

You do know what “doxxing” means, right?

I mean, if you don’t, just say so and we’ll go over it. But if you do, then don’t pretend you don’t understand the difference between your volunteering the fact that you live in Canada, and Funcom digging it up and posting it without your consent, especially if you never did so yourself.

Like I said, the “suggestion” you reacted to was that if I open a topic saying “I was unfairly banned from server #6666, where I played with my Funcom account CodeMage42069”, Funcom could use the information I freely volunteered – and the implicit consent to discuss my ban that I gave by starting that topic – and offer evidence that I was, indeed, banned fairly.

Your “suggestion” was to have Funcom add “oh, and it was the Funcom account DeaconElie69420 that reported you”, without any consent from @DeaconElie.

So let’s drop the pretense, okay?

Not really. Constantly using admins to enforce rules sinks more costs into the free service long term than having an automated system that prevents the rules from being broken.

Yes so preventing them from being broken in the first place is a much better option. Glad you agree :grin:

No. Two examples of why things happen. I didn’t even say that, that was my actions anyway.

Sense of honour is also psychological. i.e. a need to take comfort in doing what you perceive to be right.

Yes, I agree. For all apart from the cheats anyway. To be honest when playing PvP you have to accept that you are entering an environment that is dominated by clans. When I first started playing, I fully expected this and knew that I would need to do to survive.

Farm, Build and survive. Just like the advertisement says :grin: Bans should be for cheats.

No. I said it was a mechanism used by players. But if someone was to offline me or my clan then dam right they would be going elsewhere. I have no problems admitting that.

You seem to want to view me as the bad guy but in reality I never hit first, I always hit last.

It’s the gold fish thing.

You’d think that but more often then not people call a time out a ban.

Just what do you think AI is?

Nelsonian knowledge.

“I play PVP and the rules need to change to suit ME”, PVP meaning PVP players in general.

Have I challenged you on THAT point?

Read a freaking TOS for Set’s sake. Dude you have no clue how this works and since you can’t comprehend it you wont believe it.

Oh I’m sure you are quite blissful.

So you take precautions against something there is a slight chance of happening. Then arguing against doing just that.

We wouldn’t need rules.

Glad I don’t live in your world. I never lock my doors and could just leave my keys in my car.
In my world if you pull up in my drive and check you phone for directions, I can step out my front door and blow you away.

Yes, and?

I could all day, especially on PVE, not the point.

How does that make a TOS violating base not a TOS violating base?

Do you know anyone that is actually doing this? If there was do you not think zendesk wouldn’t know it? None the less people wouldn’t be getting banned if they didn’t violate the TOS. Not getting caught does not make something less illegal.

Sounds like some one is desperate to do some witness tampering. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

eh. Knowing a large sprawling base with paths and stairs leading all over, with enough lights to drop your FPS to nauseating levels, is a prime example of multiple TOS violations, does not make it any easier to report. I just don’t want to :cloud_with_rain: on some ones :rainbow: .

Like I’ve said i don’t want to be funcoms beat cop. I want to be Judge Deacon.
“You go a week to reduce this compounds foot print before I give you a time out”. more then you’d get from funcom.

I was implying that by admins having to police rules that they would have to sort it out which is what they currently do every time a report is made. Not that they really do anything to improve the current system.

No in game solutions that I suggested would actually create less admin work as they wouldn’t have to deal with the reports.

If we go back to your original example here. If someone was prevented from wearing the wrong shoes then their feet wouldn’t hurt in the first place.

You are the one pushing against something that would affect yourself. I merely offered a solution that would be better for all, it’s not just about me as you put it.

So your problems have no solutions whereas mine do. Ok :grin:

What are these problems?

Well your solution would be to ban them rather than give them the option to move. Yep that’s not going to cause problems for many players is it?.

And so are you! Just because you weren’t suspended/banned for fence stacking doesn’t mean you too weren’t in-between. It was known for a long time before Funcom cracked down on this that it was not legit and also caused lag problems.

Deliberately would imply that @TINK would have known she was breaking the rules. Whereas she said that she thought that it was just PvP. This is a big difference and yes the end result is the same.

This is not opposing the rules it just makes sure that they are followed. I say this because you imply you that I am against the rules or it’s all about me. Whereas this just supports the existing rules by preventing them from being broken.

One difference would be that tactical building is available to everyone (if you don’t consider the rules) and one shot maces are not. Using the maces, although this gives an unfair advantage is not against the rules whereas tactical building is against the rules.

That’s a big gamble. If you try that on official you should fully expect to get caught out. Many have already found that out the hard way and lost accounts.

who is right?

Really? The quote you showed says otherwise.

‘Massive constructions or’ this clearly says that Massive constructions or other elements are not allowed. It doesn’t say that ‘Massive constructions that are memory intensive leading to loss of server performance both on client and server side’ i.e. massive constructions are not allowed.This is a good example of how players could misinterpret the rules and that a build limit would prevent this from happening.

Also this is a very bad rule. Notice that it says client side. Therefore someone running the game on a calculator could get you banned for loss of performance.

So basically you are trying to drown out and discredit anyone’s opinions and ideas that differ from your own. You have tried to make out that my ideas are all about me when they are not and you have tried to discredit peoples opinions by saying that they got caught out by the rules so what they say must be wrong.

AI is an artificially created entity that learns and adapts to it’s environment. Whereas NPC’s are not intelligent. They will never learn from their mistakes and will only do what they are pre-programmed to do.

Not sure what you mean. I just posted what the rule is.

You can’t just make up quotes :rofl: is that supposed to be me?

Okay, so now you’re down to pretending you don’t know that I was talking about the effect of expanded no-build zones on private servers and singleplayer games, even though I’ve explained it several times. This discussion has no point anymore.

And she also said that she continued doing it even after the first time. Go look it up.

That’s deliberate.

You are against having to follow those rules. You want the game to take that responsibility away from you. Which, you know, would be fine if it didn’t also harm other players who don’t play where you do.

And I’m really tired of repeating and explaining the same thing. You’re stooping down to gaslighting now and I’m done trying to talk to you.

Releasing personal information about a person.

And the funny thing, like I said, is that you can just find out all the information about Deacon (in this example) because he’s already posted on the forums.

In other words, if you wanted to find out (illegally) anything about anyone, you can, because we have all posted. Having Funcom post a players name does nothing illegal, you would still have to illegally obtain information, and then commit another illegal act on them (not saying you as in you, im just using it like in your example of you being the one banned and potentially seeking revenge)

It just seems like you think that if a name is posted, that every single person would be out to illegally harm them, when in clear fact, that opportunity is present right now (as youve proven) with each post we make.

So lets not pretent the world will end if Funcom were to do this - it wont.

No, now lets get into this. On one hand, Funcom cant name a player in one of their posts, because that persons personal information could be gotten illegally, simply by their name being put on the forums. On the other hand, you and I can post clearly here without fear of repercussions…because people cant get the information the same way?

So Funcom can be liable because they named someone, but you or I cant get in trouble if we name someone in the forums…the same forums Funcom can?

Im more worried about the legal trouble I would be in if my property is stolen. Trust me, worst case I go to jail if my firearms are stolen, best case is about a $10,000 fine.

So yeah, I need to protect myself against laws designed to hurt me.

Bingo!

Be happy you live in the US with rights. Not everyone does.

Read the whole comment, otherwise you are attempting to take things out of context. Like you just did.

If it happens on server A, and you play on server B, how does the base on server A affect you, your game play, or your experience? Thats the better questions to ask.

  1. We would if we had a way to see who was mass reporting - if its even a thing.
  2. Would Zendesk ever say anything to us about it if they did? Would a player come to the forums and say "oh poo, Ive been banned for too many false reports? Come on man.
  3. True, and didnt say they wouldnt be
  4. True, but are you the type of person who runs around multiple servers to enforce Funcoms ToS? If so, why? What do you gain?

Sounds like people are paranoid that their name might appear as reporters for some unknown reason.

No, I knew that you were talking about single player and private servers. It was just that you didn’t really give an answer why it was a problem for them.

I am also pretty sure @TINK said that other than getting a suspension for land spam which could have been anywhere, that they gave no exact details of what she did wrong. So how could she have known?

No, I never said that. Although yes some changes are needed I still try to follow them. My suggestions would even supported the rules by helping to prevent them from being broken.

No, too many ‘you’s’. My proposals take the responsibility away from ‘everyone’ so that they can just log on and enjoy playing the game without the fear of losing their account to a technicality.

Yes I am. Sometimes I go a little overboard researching stuff, especially when I see players getting bullied on a private server and chatroom that I partly run. This happened a few years ago now. One of the other admins sided with the bullies and didn’t care so I looked into this. Under UK and Federal law an admin of a chatroom/forum has a duty of care to it’s users. In the worst case scenario the admin would be prosecuted and may even face jail for not protecting it’s users.

But where would their motivation to take that risk be? They would get nothing for that risk.

Of course they are. Funcom needs to verify that you purchased the game and any DLC’s for you to be able to use them. So some sort of link to where you purchased them from would have to be present. In your case a link would be present from Funcom to Steam to your bank which most likely would hold your name and address.

Also just to let you know Xbox users do not directly purchase digital copies directly from Funcom either. Purchases are made from the Microsoft store.

It’s not an entity, If NPCs had unlimited memory they’d be AI. AI is just preprogrammed responses, it just has a massive store of those responses.

Google paraphrasing.

Thing is; and I am sure you are well aware of this and your point, once people lose the anonymity of the reporting, they wont.

And that is what this name and shame is all about isn’t it? Get people scared to report some one so people can pretty well violate the TOS with out worry. I see no other reason for you to be pushing this so hard.
You know as well as I do once that reporters name is in public their fun on that server is over. They will be forced off and have to change their player name and start new on another server. If you’re not well aware of this you are being obtuse or are just naive.

It will be for the reported on that server.

Thought some one had explained the difference between voluntary and involuntary already?

There is a liability difference, but I doubt if explaining it would make it understandable.

:person_facepalming:

I take it you’re not watching the news, we are losing rights at an alarming rate. Some states have gone all F word; a governmental system forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism.

No it isn’t, that is an obfuscation and has nothing to do with a compound violating the TOS. Not sure why you seem to think it is.

No one is doing this. I know some people just live for the latest conspiracy theory, but there is only a slightly higher chance someone is doing this then there is someone hacking you bank account through your forum post. I have to wonder why are you pushing this narrative so hard?

Reason has been given. and is my point. I can only assume you want to know who is reporting TOS violations so YOU can troll them on the servers. I see no other reason for you to be so desperate for funcom to name reporters.

Ok, so how do you prevent someone from gathering personal information from a forum?

We can make laws against it, we can voice our opinions against it, but how do you stop someone from wanting to break the law?

Unless there is better data encryption so people can’t so easily access information, all we can do is hope that people aren’t that evil to retaliate IRL because they got reported in a video game. It’s sad that people think that’s the correct path to choose.

And again, you just took that same risk by posting a reply to me. What’s the difference?

Oh I highly doubt Funcom can access that information through steam. I’ll add, my banking information isn’t on steam I use a PayPal account on steam. Now if Funcom can access that fact through steam (oddly enough if I’m allowed to launch the game through steam that alone should be enough for Funcom to know it’s legit) that I use a PayPal for my steam purchases AND they can go one step further by looking at my PayPal information AND they can go one ste further by seeing my personal bank information from there….

That seems like a lot of illegal things to me. There is literally zero reasons why they would ever have to go that far to confirm a purchased game. I can’t see them going that far. A confirmation from steam is enough, but since I can’t verify and don’t know for sure, I would be open to hearing exactly how much information they are allowed to get like my example above.

Maybe. But if it’s clear violations of the TOS, then the reporter should be praised for doing a good job. The community can heckle the person who got reported for whining on the forums about a ban that was justified right? Heck we already see that with a few certain people who skip all the details and tell them “lol you got what you deserved”.

No, it’s actually to disprove conspiracy theories that people server hop to feel like a Funcom Police Officer. Or to prove that people spam report to weaponize it.

I’m not the one talking extremes hoping that someone will commit crimes IRL because of this.

Looking back, I’d love to know the guy that reported my bridge and got me my 30 day ban. I’d find his base and wipe him. You know, playing the game style. But then again, I know for a fact that that player left the server long before my ban was over since the population at the end of my ban was about 2 players and they were both new to the game.

So did that person wrongly report someone? Was it for something like a skybase, or building spam, or hacks that actually did the server a service by reporting?

Or did they newly start on a server and report everything they seen, disrupting that servers community?

Actions have reactions and at the end of the day, did reporting a player to get them banned have a positive outcome? Did it positively help other players on the server or did you report a guys wheel base because it blocked a flower spawn?

Yes context can matter. The times I reported players on 6101 when Siptah was launched I didn’t care about any potential retribution from people since I knew what I reported was clear TOS violations that would benefit everyone and make the game better.

Why would someone be scared of telling the truth or reporting the truth?

Yes it was right beside legal and illegal behaviour. I guess the truth is people need to remain anonymous because they want to run around like Funcom Police and cause as much grief for players as they can.

Nothing to explain. Funcom posts a name. They are liable. You or I post the same name on the same forum, we are not liable.

The outcome is still the same that you don’t see - a person can still gain the information they want no matter who posts it and commit a crime with it. That’s not hard to understand though right?

And actually, since we’ve established that the information that someone might get from a post would come only if that person made a post. They can’t get the same information if they are merely tagged or mentioned.

Yeah, I can clearly tell you aren’t from Canada or know Canadian law - and that’s ok!

The fact you facepalmed shows me what you think of our laws and why sometimes I have the opinions I do about people taking care of things themselves.

I live in a country that will jail you if you use someone’s wrong pronouns.

You’re not suffering in the US.

It matters because why would you go to another server just to look for people to report? Why not pick a server and play on it, and if you see something there, deal with it.

You can make the claim that no one is doing this just as much as I can make the claim that people are doing it. Best part is, neither one of us can prove our positions which is clearly why I called it a conspiracy theory. All I have is the proof of what happened in my case and id say that if a new player joins a server, makes a report and is gone a couple weeks later, they never went there to play the game and have fun. They purposely go around looking to report people. Until there is a way to disprove that, I’ll stick to what I know.

Nope. I don’t troll people who are playing the game. Now, would I go raid someone for reporting a bridge I had? Yup.

Is it wrong to raid people?

Wait, is that why they removed the player names from the player list? So you couldn’t track who attacked you so you could have retribution? It all makes sense now…

To us. Zendesk is already well aware.

And there you go.

That make no difference to a vindictive person or his/her friends.

YOUR truth, not a fact.

It has nothing to do with laws and everything to do with attitude. Some people just want to hate, they don’t need an actual reason.

And many states are taking away the right to use those pronouns and jailing people for expressing them.

Why do you believe people are? Serious you keep running back to this narrative but have 0 proof of it.
Why is this conspiracy theory eating at you so badly?

None the less why don’t you get a TOS violation is a TOS violation regardless of who reports it? Why is it so difficult to get that fact through to you?

:person_facepalming: