(Why Locked?) I have an offer Funcom can't refuse, They might ignore it but it's a good deal!

[Oduda]

@azaroth

I think you have not saw what i saw on offi pvp servers and it will be hard to convince me unless a clear rule is done, priority to all hacking and cheaters case and after we look other problems. i had recently something that happened that make me think that it is may be now the case (as i did a report of speedhacking that was treated in one day by zendesk, when in my previous experience it was ignored or not clearly prioritirize most of time)

Can you please point out where @CodeMage said that cheating should not be punished with bans? I would really love to see that, because you know, it doesn’t actually exist. And yes, cheating has been an issue on PvP servers since day 1. Everyone knows that. No one is arguing against that. That does not however diminish OTHER issues either.

@azaroth

and no it’s not a matter to go on private server, we play on offi and we want to contnue to,

So you admit that you want to play in a toxic cesspit filled with cheaters and people who violate the ToS on a daily basis because… stubbornness? Yeah, that’s some pretty sound reasoning there.

@azaroth

and we just giving feedback of what will help to have more offi pvp server ALIVE.

Constructive feedback is always a good thing! Ignoring issues because you think other issue are worse is not constructive. That’s like saying, “well it’s OK to stab someone as long as we are stopping people from shooting people because shooting people is worse”. Yeah, they are both bad and they both need to be stopped.

@azaroth

And what I see as a problem was that zendesk ignored a lot of real case of hack and cheating report in past to treat land claim problem on base of legit players they erased, and most of the time those reports were done by the same people that use glitch and cheat,

This is all speculation. Unless you have the report files from Zendesk to show exactly who is filing the claim and how many claims are being filed and with what evidence you are just making assumptions. You ASSUME that the cheaters are reporting the “poor innocent people” but if they were innocent then they wouldn’t be in violation of the ToS in the first place now would they?

[CodeMage]

@azaroth

I think you have not saw what i saw on offi pvp servers and it will be hard to convince me unless a clear rule is done, priority to all hacking and cheaters case and after we look other problems.

I’m not trying to convince you hacking and cheating shouldn’t be prioritized, because I agree they should.

Thing is, you’re just moving the goalposts. @Kilix was very clear:

@Kilix

The only thing people should be banned for is for blatant cheating (aka speed hacks, flying etc) or for building skybases/undermesh bases. That’s all.

And you agreed with that.

If you’re now saying you don’t agree with that, that’s fine. Maybe you changed your opinion, or maybe you didn’t express it correctly the first time around. Both of those are understandable.

However, if you still agree with what @Kilix said, then everything else you wrote is just fluff. It’s trying to justify some special exemption status for PVP servers, the exemption that they don’t deserve. No amount of trying to shift the goal posts and make it look like you’re saying one thing and then backtracking is going to change the fact that PVP servers don’t deserve any special exemption from the rules.

[azaroth]

“Can you please point out where @CodeMage said that cheating should not be punished with bans? I would really love to see that, because you know, it doesn’t actually exist. And yes, cheating has been an issue on PvP servers since day 1. Everyone knows that. No one is arguing against that. That does not however diminish OTHER issues either.”

english is not my native language but i hope you understand that i talk of my experience, and the reports of undermesh base, hacking and cheating i did to zendesk in past (more than 50), if you don’t do difference in the priority of traatement beetwen hacking/cheating and building problem i do not agree with you.

“So you admit that you want to play in a toxic cesspit filled with cheaters and people who violate the ToS on a daily basis because… stubbornness? Yeah, that’s some pretty sound reasoning there.”

are you serious ? and well you can re read what i explained and what is the solution, but the go play on private server you can keep it for you.

“Constructive feedback is always a good thing! Ignoring issues because you think other issue are worse is not constructive. That’s like saying, “well it’s OK to stab someone as long as we are stopping people from shooting people because shooting people is worse”. Yeah, they are both bad and they both need to be stopped.”

come play on a pvp official server for 6 months you will understand the issue.

‘This is all speculation. Unless you have the report files from Zendesk to show exactly who is filing the claim and how many claims are being filed and with what evidence you are just making assumptions. You ASSUME that the cheaters are reporting the “poor innocent people” but if they were innocent then they wouldn’t be in violation of the ToS in the first place now would they?’

this is what i saw happening and was my experience, but again do you play on pvp server offi ?

[azaroth]

so i m happy that you agree that hackging/cheating problem need to be a priority as this is what make flee people from pvp server, and not base building.

i agree that the main problem on pvp is what @kilix described : "aka speed hacks, flying etc) or for building skybases/undermesh bases.

and as pvp player i also agree to that “Let large bases exist. The game literally forces you to make them large with its stupidly large benches”

and as all is about raiding, personnaly i think it is big base that make interest to play on a pvp server. Personnaly i have no interest to attack base with one door that you break in 5 seconds.

and pvp server have no problem with big base because you have tools to destroy it, i know that pve people do not understand what do a god or 800 bomb, but a pvp player understand what it means.

now the building and land claim issue that can exist on pvp is when someone claim on 2 square map around his base using foundation spam (and that the seige system dont allow you to deal with it in easy way, but if you kill his main base in 99% case he will give up and all decay) you can also have the malicous case of foundation spaming for blocking or enclose someone, and that is a problem, as this is very hard to destroy this kind of stuffs but base have never been a problem in my experience of pvp players to destroy, as big as they are, and as kilix said all have been done to force pvp player to build bigger and bigger because of what inside the game, and the treasure room of the next patch will create even more the problem.

but problem is i saw things happening that were not normal, with people with normal pvp base erased for landclaim problem that were not a problem.

i would remind you that Tos have existed since always, that the first thing i had read when i joined this forum long ago (5 years i think). at this time there was no tos application and this was communty manager that were treating cheating case (very well by the way even if it was taking time). and i remenber that in the TOS initially there was a line that was saying about land claim abuse : that a difference will be done beetwen pve and pvp server.

when TOS went into application annoucement with zendesk used, the tos had only one modification, the removal of this line.

i have rechecked the TOS not long time ago and was happy to see they added a new wording of what i checked when they did the tos application annoucement

from actual tos
“Please remember that there are other players sharing the server with you. Restricting others’ access to content is not allowed beyond of course grabbing a spot for your base. If you wish to reign supreme on the map and hog all the resources and enemies, please consider single player or setting up your own server, or - in the case of PvP servers - play fair.”

gameplay is different from pvp server to pve server, and problems are not the same.

if any players do not share this thought i can understand but i will simply invite them to join a pvp server and share our experience in playing with us 6 months, they should be able to understand quickly.

[2cents]

Recently moved to a pvc server from pvp, mainly due to time restrictions and certaincurrent issues.
Tried a few servers before i settled on one.

I can tell you 100% right now that people saying pvp people are the ones ignoring TOS on land claim are 100% wrong.

There are bases here i just flat blue screen going anywhere near.
Theres some on the hills of asgard that i litterally have to walk through asgard itself and climb over the walls so i can actually move.
The servers before were worse.

So can we quit the pvp players are the cause of this

[stelagel]

I remember before the Zendesk age, some fellow exiles came to the Playstation section trying to report a player that was blocking the Obelisks. So i jumped in to this server to take photos as well as neutral, to see what’s going on there. Indeed, a player was trying to block all the Obelisks, true! But the ones who where reporting him had humongous builds around the map too, beautiful builds but humongous. The worst was that all these builds were unnecessary, i build just to build and the server performance was really low. The spawns were acting weird and the agro was unnatural. This server was American so i happened to witness the restart of it, it took over 30 minutes to restart, over 30 minutes. In the excuse that i build with funcy dlcs and with architecture, over 20% of the map had builds. Not to mention that the “architects” had gateframes in many passages, which means that they could block various passages anytime they wish.
Too many players lost control, they were playing on official servers like they own them forgetting that they were visitors too.
It’s not right to police other players, this is Funcoms job, but the way they do it right now it’s not right either.
If you get a report for a server then investigate the whole server not just the reported person. If you have 100 servers in 100 days all your servers will be clean from violations and the massive wipe will give the message. But this way the burden is all yours, you do not share it with players.
That’s why i believe they decided this way, so players will blame other players and less the company. You could say that it’s a brilliant plan, but is it?

[CodeMage]

@azaroth

and as pvp player i also agree to that “Let large bases exist. The game literally forces you to make them large with its stupidly large benches”

That’s a red herring right there. @Kilix is merely perpetuating the trope that it’s the size of the base that really matters, rather than its effect on the game, on the server, and on other players.

The so-called “stupidly large” benches don’t actually force anyone to build a rule-breaking base.

@azaroth

and pvp server have no problem with big base because you have tools to destroy it, i know that pve people do not understand what do a god or 800 bomb, but a pvp player understand what it means.

Thank you for the condescension. Should I reply in kind and pretend that you’re incapable of understanding why building system abuse is a problem that does apply to PVP servers despite your claims to the contrary?

@azaroth

you can also have the malicous case of foundation spaming for blocking or enclose someone, and that is a problem, as this is very hard to destroy this kind of stuffs but base have never been a problem in my experience of pvp players to destroy, as big as they are

Oh, so building system and claim system can be abused on PVP servers?

Since you keep dodging the issue, let me quote @Kilix yet again, and add some emphasis this time:

@Kilix

The only thing people should be banned for is for blatant cheating (aka speed hacks, flying etc) or for building skybases/undermesh bases. That’s all.

So let’s stop waffling once and for all, and get to the point: do you agree with that or not?

@azaroth

i would remind you that Tos have existed since always

No, they haven’t.

Maybe the rules have been in place since you started playing, but I remember very well playing before them and being at the mercy of random trolls who thought it was perfectly legit to deliberately ruin the fun for everyone else.

@azaroth

TOS initially there was a line that was saying about land claim abuse : that a difference will be done beetwen pve and pvp server.

No, the line was that they might apply different criteria to PVP servers if they thought it warranted. And guess what? Most PVP players seem to have assumed the same thing you did, that PVP is somehow special and has a different set of rules. I’m not surprised at all they removed that line, given how many of you think you’re special and unique.

@azaroth

“Please remember that there are other players sharing the server with you. Restricting others’ access to content is not allowed beyond of course grabbing a spot for your base. If you wish to reign supreme on the map and hog all the resources and enemies, please consider single player or setting up your own server, or - in the case of PvP servers - play fair.”

Right. Ask yourself this question: why does Funcom think they need to tell players on PVP servers, specifically, that they should try to play fair?

[CodeMage]

@2cents

I can tell you 100% right now that people saying pvp people are the ones ignoring TOS on land claim are 100% wrong.

@2cents

So can we quit the pvp players are the cause of this

Please, point me to where anyone said that the PVP players are the only ones ignoring the TOS about building abuse?

In fact, what I’m arguing against is the idea that the PVP players should be the only ones allowed to ignore them. And that idea is very popular among the PVP players. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen it posted, and it won’t be the last.

So don’t try to put this on us PVE players. We have a fair share of jerks who think they should be allowed to build theme parks that span multiple grid squares and we’re just as sick of them as we are of PVP players who think they should be allowed to play without rules.

[2cents]

@Oduda

So you admit that you want to play in a toxic cesspit filled with cheaters and people who violate the ToS on a daily basis because… stubbornness? Yeah, that’s some pretty sound reasoning there.

There

[2cents]

@CodeMage

So don’t try to put this on us PVE players. We have a fair share of jerks who think they should be allowed to build theme parks that span multiple grid squares and we’re just as sick of them as we are of PVP players who think they should be allowed to play without rules.

Maybe you want to back up there, unless your sayingnland claim isnt an issue on pve,c
Im saying what ive seen so far is way worse and permanent.
No more no less

[CodeMage]

@2cents

unless your sayingnland claim isnt an issue on pve,c

I literally said the opposite. You quoted me saying the opposite.

@2cents

Im saying what ive seen so far is way worse and permanent.
No more no less

No, you’re not saying just that. You’re saying something else on top of that. You’re saying that PVP players don’t ignore the TOS – which is false — and that PVE players are saying that PVP players are the only ones doing so – which is also false.

Fact is, PVP players are the only ones constantly asking to be exempt from building abuse rules.

But you’ll ignore that again, won’t you, and claim we’re saying something we aren’t? Like this:

@2cents

@Oduda

So you admit that you want to play in a toxic cesspit filled with cheaters and people who violate the ToS on a daily basis because… stubbornness? Yeah, that’s some pretty sound reasoning there.

There

You wanna explain how that quote means that PVE players don’t break the TOS? Or how that quote means that PVP players are the only ones who break the TOS?

Didn’t think so.

[2cents]

Ok mate you need a time out.

Everyones very quick to mention the pvp players, im just saying TOS violations are rampant all over pve,c you read what you like

[CodeMage]

I read what you wrote. If that’s not what you wanted to write, the problem ain’t on my side.

[2cents]

Ok if thats how you read it cool

[Oduda]

@2cents

There

There what? You are quoting a comment made about someone refusing to play on private servers even though they know that the official servers are filled with cheaters / hackers / rampant violations of the ToS. My comment, which you copied, has literal nothing to do with ANY server type other than OFFICIAL SERVERS. Talk about taking things out of context in order to grasp for anything you can.

@CodeMage

You wanna explain how that quote means that PVE players don’t break the TOS? Or how that quote means that PVP players are the only ones who break the TOS?

Didn’t think so.

Yeah, he can’t. Because it has nothing to do with what he is claiming that it does. He either can’t read or just chooses not to or he would clearly see that I was obviously talking about official servers… you know the issue which I directly quoted in making that statement. Not pvp servers, OFFICIAL servers.

[2cents]

@CodeMage

No, you’re not saying just that. You’re saying something else on top of that. You’re saying that PVP players don’t ignore the TOS – which is false — and that PVE players are saying that PVP players are the only ones doing so – which is also false.

Fact is, PVP players are the only ones constantly asking to be exempt from building abuse rules.

But you’ll ignore that again, won’t you, and claim we’re saying something we aren’t? Like this:

You know what ive just re read that,

No, im not saying that ypure saying that, and trying to say im saying it, your perception is yours alone.
Im fed up of people blaming pvp players where reporting being used as a weapon, with no clear rules.
Sooner or later those now trained pvp players are going to end up on pvc servers and do the same.

Believe me, and i think you know already that pvc servers are well over built, those reports are going to burn down those servers pretty fast.

At no point did i say only, you said only, i was trying to state that bringing “pvp” players into it further distances the differents play styles and gives the easily led a reason to belive they cant co exist.

Although, at this point , i think its useless to try.

You want to imply i mean more that cool, but thats on you.

You show me how pve,c is t more over built and vulnerable to TOS banning.

No didnt think so

[2cents]

@Oduda

@CodeMage

You wanna explain how that quote means that PVE players don’t break the TOS? Or how that quote means that PVP players are the only ones who break the TOS?

Didn’t think so.

Yeah, he can’t. Because it has nothing to do with what he is claiming that it does. He either can’t read or just chooses not to or he would clearly see that I was obviously talking about official servers… you know the issue which I directly quoted in making that statement. Not pvp servers, OFFICIAL servers.

Yeah he cant because that isnt what he was trying to say.

And i only play official

[CodeMage]

@2cents

You want to imply i mean more that cool, but thats on you.

I don’t need to imply anything. I already quoted you. I can do so again, but you’ll just keep pretending you didn’t say what you said.

But hey, why not? I’ve got time to kill. Here:

@2cents

I can tell you 100% right now that people saying pvp people are the ones ignoring TOS on land claim are 100% wrong.

What exactly do you think this means? Because what it says is that people who say PVP players are ignoring land claim rules are “100% wrong”.

So PVP players are not ignoring the land claim rules? Is that what you’re saying there?

Or you’re saying that people who claim that only PVP players ignore the land claim rules are wrong? In which case, I ask you again: point to anyone who has ever claimed that.

@2cents

So can we quit the pvp players are the cause of this

And this? What is this supposed to mean? Because what it says is that we should quit saying (I guess, that word’s missing) that PVP players are “the cause” of “this”. Who, exactly, is saying that the PVP players are “the cause” of “this”? What, exactly, is “this”?

Oh, and while we’re at it, here:

@2cents

@Oduda

So you admit that you want to play in a toxic cesspit filled with cheaters and people who violate the ToS on a daily basis because… stubbornness? Yeah, that’s some pretty sound reasoning there.

There

“There” what? What does that quote have to do with anything you have been talking about? What does it have to do with anything I’ve replied to you?

@2cents

Im fed up of people blaming pvp players

And I’m fed up with PVP players thinking they should be a special case. I’m also fed up with PVP players trying to distract and derail the conversation every time someone points out that they don’t get to be a special case.

And I’m especially fed up with people – regardless of the mode they play – who think that they can keep gaslighting everyone about what they literally wrote.

[2cents]

You know what, screw it.
Its waste of time pvp players posting in here, the divisions are too deep.

You want to get mad at pvp players that cant play their game cos the fixes would break yours.

We litterally cant play the game cos yours breaks ours.

Lets just leave it there,

Your right…

Close and delist , im done

[Winthor]

@azaroth

come play on a pvp official server for 6 months you will understand the issue.

I understand the issue just fine. Beeing competitive and showing ambition to win is the nature of a pvp player. And that is fine as long as it doesn’t go beyond a certain point. But you see the problem is, most pvp players in Conan have no limits anymore. They do whatever is necessary to win, no matter what it takes or how abusive it is. Its never themselfs they are blame for abusing the game, its always someone elses fault.

“We can not play any other way… we have to do it because everybody else is doing it… bla bla.”

Funcom is responsible for not fixing bugs for a long time. But that doesn´t give anybody the right to abuse them. And that is what people need to understand. They need to take responsibility for their actions.

I said this a lot of times and I will repeat myself as long as it takes in order to get people to understand that they need to stop blaming others for their mistakes. Someone needs to start beeing a rolemodel for others and others have to follow in good faith. As long as this is not happening you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper into the mud.