Haha, you talk like i have this problem only because im bad as fck. And completely forget about little thing:
arrows now make low dmg, if you wont miss all arrows it still impossible kill someone with food \ heal. All what you can is kill pre 60 lvl newbie who try to bring wood to home.
I think Dietrichâs sentiment is more along the lines of
âWhereâs the Bola?â
Perfectly valid question. Bolaâs take skill to aim and launch. Itâs also a good ambush weapon and promotes stalking/stealth.
Would also be a good solution to those pesky archer NPCâs.
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If you canât kill someone who outruns you its not a game problem, the problem its you! Yes, youâre bad as fck! What testlive server youâre playing? If its on USA1, I can show you that its possible to get someone while fleeing.
Bows and Arrows are supposed to do low dmg for non archers! If you want bow and arrow good dmg, go for Accuracy, and use high end bows AND arrows!
About the healing, yes, healing I agree it is a problem currently, but its already adressed, and there is a chance theyâre adding emotes for it post launch so ppl canât abuse it.
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Thats painfull, your solution gonna take large amount of hours to fight against some guys in t2 house but with good online.
And its dead end when your victim hate you too and gonna play all day just to repair walls.
Destroy walls costs more then build them, i think thats enouth to passive protect him, if he wont fight with invaders. IRL i never hear about fortress defent only with construction hammer, so i cant understand why whis borring mechanics must be in game.
in problem 1 yes. maybe bola, mb more slow durability from arrows | javelins, mb old stamina regeneration system(full regen when char stay still and low amount when he move without shift), mb faster attack animations and etc.
I think you never test dmg from 50 points stat and legendary bow to 60 hight tier armor.
I think crippling poisons applicable to arrows are in order. It would make Alchemy more worthwhile.
Maybe, one way is something to control victim, another way more dmg to ranged weapons. From crippling or from hit, i think it doesnt matter, because itâs just question of skillcap. Hit easier, poison harder because you should stuck it. Main thing its way to catch runner.
But with regular hashtag #buffbows on stream and answer âNoâ, control way looks more realistick.
Control is generally fairer, cuz it goes both ways.
Prey can cripple the hunter with a crippling arrow, turn around and run away.
Walking backwards with a bow would still be slower than a crippled foe, who in turn can take out his bow and either fire back, or hide behind a shield, moving forward.
A lot more strategic than just trading numbers.
and have you tested legendary bow with dragon bone arrows? I think you need to test more! and donât expect bows to hurt people in heavy armor.
Btw, this converstation wonât go anywhere, dont need to reply to me anymore. The invitation for test in-game is up, if you want call me on steam. Aranha
Actually I think those bosses should probably be at least 5 times thougher because right now they are too easy to kill. (Thus too easy to get some âlegendaryâ weapon.)
As for fleeing enemies⊠When I think about someone who didnt even want to get into a fight with someone else but got someone following them⊠I dont think its bad for them to manage to run away.
Though for people who just got that they will loose anyway and want to prevent their death by suddenly running away, I think cripple should probably have some 1 to 3 second hard cripple (-75% movement) plus 3 to 5 seconds light cripple (whatever the current value is). If someone was willing to try and kill their attacker (or worse, is the attacker himself) he should be prepared to die as wellâŠ
The fundamental issue here is still the PVP label. This is a misnomer. This game was not designed around PVP (not in the combat kill sense). It was designed around Clan v Clan raiding. There are still issues here but you âwinâ not by killing your opponent but by wrecking their base and taking their stuff or by protecting your base and keeping your stuff. When I fight PVP in this game, my victory condition is to not die. If I survive by making the other guy run away, that is fine by me.
This is not a post about raiding and I know there are issues there. This is a post about adjusting what one thinks constitutes a win in PVP in CE. If your opponent had to run away, you won. If you wanted to kill him to take his stuff, your time would be better spent looking for his base and getting his stuff from there.
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I agree with what youâve said mostly, just not the quoted part. The issue with PVP is the culture around it and I mean the current culture. In most âPVPâ games you have fairness, balance, and a decent shake of being able to defeat your opponent.
These are games like World of Warcraft, Call of Duty, and various other such âfairâ games.
PVP in its origin, is NOT fair. Its not nice. You donât get a fair balanced team of x vs x. You may get outnumbered you may get zeroâd out. Back in the early to mid 90s with games like Ultima Online and Everquestâs Sullon Zek server had some brutal PVP.
Only games in more recent times that come close is Archeage, Planetise 2, and Black Desert, as well as some other survival based games.
But the culture of 'PVP is what most people are used to. Thatâs usually something like:
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Match based. Equal teams and levels, sometimes even having normalized gear. Fair, balanced, and even.
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On Demand. Usually instanced, elected, or based on playstyle. Not going to get PVPâd unless you elect to engage in it.
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Lack of consequence. Big one here. Most games where you fight other players, you donât have to worry about losing stuff, losing exp, or losing any progress.
Conan Exiles is NONE of that (with the minor exception of PVE servers). PVP is not fair. You can be ganged up on. Either by random 2âs or 3âs just trying to pick off the weakest among them, groups, or even entire clans or groups of clans. And you donât get the choose the time and place. You can be engaged at anytime, even if offline in many cases, requiring planning and forethought on server that allow for it.
And the biggest one, your actions or inactions have consequences. Tick off the wrong dude and you may see 20 people raid you. Why? Because they can and they want to make an example for others. Not protecting yourself or even just looking vulnerable can make you a target.
The great thing about consequences is you can use a variety of methods to escape a dire situation or impose one on another. Say for example, you drew the short straw and a group of say about 5 want to mess you up.
You donât have to just take it, you can go down in a blaze of glory, but you can also reason. If theyâre not directly attacking you. You might be able to talk to them. Ok what do they want? Maybe you can offer them a resource to leave you alone? Hell many may take it and go their merry way. Content to take a reasonable amount of tribute. They may even come to your defense if someone else threatens you. In such a case.
These kind of player interactions are only available when there is a consequence for dying, for having your wealth discovered and no restrictions in play.
But that also requires the aggressors to play somewhat in line too. To analyze the situation. Will the tribute over time outweigh a full on raid of the guy immediately? If so, maybe âmake them an offer they canât refuse.â Seriously use the mafia as an example. By all means play dirty and nasty, but do so with a mind in business.
When I played Archeage, the guild I was apart of had a rule. If someone screwed with a guildmate, we punished everyone associated with them. That meant the newbies leveling were KOS. The guilds ships and carts were destroyed whenever they used them. We continued to do this until the guild paid tribute and restitution, or broke apart. Guilds that resisted usually fell apart as we would gank their members and tell them we would keep killing them until they left their guild. Many would leave their guild to avoid harassment.
Eventually they would be bleeding too many members that they would have to pay up, or fall apart if they couldnât afford to. Thatâs PVP. When actions and choices have consequences. They didnât have to gank a member of the largest most organized guild on the server. Taking a node of iron from someone wasnât worth losing a guild over. But thatâs the choices people can make. With freedom of choice comes consequences that go with that choice.
This isnât all in reply to what you said TikaTheHungry. I just felt it needed to be mentioned when people are discussing what PVP is. As I said in the beginning, I believe PVP has lost its edge and meaning. And when people actually experience it, they are shocked to say the least.
Now to reiterate what you mentioned. I entirely agree with the idea of someone running away to be a win. The focus is to survive. To build a better mousetrap. Killing someone out in the open is a shortsided goal. If you want to fight people 1v1, build an arena and host events.
Out in the open, what are you gonna get? A steel pick and about 300 ironstone? Maybe a set of +5 Endurance Light Armor everyone can make at level 10?
I like what you said. Find their base and raid it. If they wonât come out to fight, build a trebuchet and knock down the walls on top of them. Iâm sure their large chests will contain far more valuable stuff.
And the great thing about people running is they always run home. Just follow. Theyâll lead you right back.
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I would say it is designed as a single player game with multiplayer options added and balanced night before patch release.
Stop chasing noobs and griefing and try to go 1x1 with a level 60
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Its definitely made for larger scale in mind. Its just the average player who hasnât played Archeage or Planetside 2 has no idea what that looks like.
Hereâs a bit of a glimpse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40_h5bQmFns
That was a fight recorded by a guildmate of mine back then. The video is 9 minutes, but only shows the highlights. The actual battle took a bit over 9 hours.
Iâm unsure how the network side of things would handle larger fights. But the balance of how bases can be created and expanded and the sense of scale needed to do so implies a much larger player base than just a few people.
Well, sometimes i want just fight, but guy just turn around and run away. Ok, he wont fight with me so i think im stonger then him and i shoul take his stuff like contibution for the absence of pvp. But i cant even overtake him. I have bows? He dont dive a fck. I have more grit then him? Same. Its just no chance for me to take him down if he want to run away.
Later i want to burn down his house, maim his character and take his slaves for my chase suffering. And again i cant do anything if he online because of repair.
As a result a cant do anything to him if he online. Cant kill him because of funny chasing, cant raid him because of repair. All what i can is w8 all night when this guy gonna sleep. And yeah thats my time, i can do this. But where is the fun, when i rat hiding agains the wall and another w8 when first gonna sleep.
Thats a problem, that i talk about. Thats gonna be ok if his online makes my raid much more expensive, but not completly useless.
Noone talk about fair or unfair pvp. This thread about fleeing in them. You talked about unfair pvp in AA, WoW, BD and etc, and in all games you have chances to overtake your foe, contol him and kill, if you stonger or you just outnumber him. In another survival games like Ark, Rust, Hurtworld and etc you still have chance to kill cowardly guys that always run away from you. And over them, you can easy destroy their house if you stronger and have anough explosives, because they CANT repair walls, just cant.
You talk about trebuchet and knock dawn that walls, but i think you never meet guy who just was online with anough resouses and repair walsls 24\7. Not just with trebuchet, jars cant brake wall too. t3 doors 50k hp, t2 25k. Jars deal only 10k. You cant even blow down t2 door in 1 moment. And its just t2. But gay against the wall can repait it in 2 hammer hits ~ 1.5 sec.
Thats what we talk about.
Itâs not the playerâs fault for running, itâs the current state of the game and lack of effective options to stop them. I run all the time. I encourage players to continue doing this so to make it clear that combat still needs a lot of work for it to be effective in real fights where players wonât simply take turns swinging and dodging like some kind of official duel. People can also run, climb, jump off cliffs, run past hostile NPCs, run into corrupt areas, jump into a lake so only tools can be used to attack them-- thereâs no official combat rules so thatâs what will happen. Itâs up to the devs to either stop people somehow or allow chasing players a way to pressure their opponent back into close-combat.
This is a good thing. I take it as a step in the right direction when it comes to losing a fight and being able to re-gear and get back into action. It shouldnât take someone an hour to go harvest enough resources to make an explosive, run up north to blow up starmetal, and finally be able to craft end-game gear thatâs competitive.
Whatâs wrong with everyone having fast access to competitive weapons? Should you have to waste an hour farming materials for end-game gear just so you can PVP without being at a huge disadvantage?
This game will improve with changes that cause skill to be more important than having the right gear.
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Well its ok to spend less time to take good gear. But i think good gear should take less time to craft then best gear. Now starmetall is good gear and you should waste more then 1h, but to farm leg weapon you should spend just 5-10 min. Silent legion set is still top and hard to craft, dragonbone too, but new leg items better but still easy to recive. So all weapons between steel and starmetall is useless in game, because of this.
I dont think its ok. Or leg weapons should be rare on server and hard to recive, or pre-top weapons should take less time to craft.
Hmm⊠Kind of reminds me of Aion.
But even in Aion, not everywhere was usual pvp zones. Yes, almost everywhere was pvp enabled, but lots of guards protecting lvl 20ish guys from max level guys and later on with those rifts only allowing certain levels to go through.
Instead there have been whole maps with castles and sieges. Dungeon- and Raidentrances being in those pvp zones, often unlocked by your faction currently having control over those castles.
Though I liked the idea of being one in the mass, healing up even the doomed to death ones, backing those off in the sole way I wanted to play. I am not into directly fighting other players as I am more of an supporter.
(Unfortunately my machine was too low end for those raiding times to run good. I always ended up dead seeing how I died afterwards.)
If this was added to Conan Exiles⊠WowâŠ
100 against other 100 people? On one server? That would be cool!
But as it is now, its mostly few people against few other people. That is almost duel like. And when it comes to those small scaled battles, I am better off playing those whenever I am interested in them myself. Meaning instanced stuff. Which is basically never⊠
I understand your point, but wouldnât it be the same problem?
Letâs say itâs easy to get good gear, but takes time to make the best gear. How much of a difference would there be between good gear and the best gear? If it was only a little bit of a difference (so good gear could effectively compete) then people wouldnât think it was worth the time to craft the best gear. I know that this is what youâre saying now about legendary weapons. However, If it was a big difference between good and best then people would feel like they need the best just to compete and now are forced to spend that hour farming star metal before they can even fight.
The only way I could see this working would be if weapons / armor had identical raw damage stats, but gave different bonuses like extra attribute points. For example, if a starmetal spear & stone spear both did 50 damage, but the starmetal spear gave +7 STR and/or inflicted some minor status effect that couldnât be found on legendary weapons. For armor it could work if there was some kind of heavy plant fiber armor that had the the same raw defense as silent legion armor, but silent legion gave + [insert balanced number] to an attribute / attributes of your choice.
If they changed it like that it would be possible to spawn in the desert and actually have a chance at winning a fight with a hostile player in end-game gear, but still give them an advantage in that gear that makes it seem worth getting. Youâd just need to balance the âextra bonusâ to something that feels worth getting without giving a completely impossible advantage.
Essentially the goal should be that skill matters more but players have the option to min/max stats if they invest time in farming end-game gear. The min/max wonât be the major decider of the fight, but they may have an edge where it takes one less hit for them to kill you than you to kill them, or something like that.