New combat system = bottom line same game experience?

Hey people!
After the combat system hit the live servers me and my mates started testing on several servers.
My impression: Like how it looks and feels and the rock-paper-scissor meta. I enjoy being able to use different weapons (lets ignore the Mitra spear which will get balanced). But I feel like nothing really changed when it comes to defeating people.

We also joined a private server which is populated especially by PVP loving players. This is my game experience:

  1. Combat starts.
  2. We hit each other und heal for 10 minutes.
  3. Noone is able to kill the opponent.
  4. First guy who runs out of healing runs away.

I critized that on the steam forums before and often got those comments ‘Oh, you are one of those guys… Why should you always be able to kill your opponent?’ On one hand they wanted to make me look like a bully and on the other hand they gave me the tip to just go to his or her base and wait or raid it making them have to fight me (how paradoxic). Next “tip”: Use a bow!’ Seriously, in 2.674 hours of playing on PVP servers not a single time I got killed by a bow and I only managed to kill someone like twice with it and he wasn’t running away but fighting me.

I often discussed that in the chat with other players and even met the guys who told me that I’m just not good enough in PVP only to show them that all of them weren’t able to kill me either. Actually I haven’t died in a single combat outside in a week playing and fighting hours every day.

I know the latest testlive patch notes but I’m interested in your oppinion. Is it just me who thinks that after minutes of fighting and being able to “win” I kind of earned the right to kill and loot my opponent? Do you like this kind of combat? Is it enough for you to be the winner once the opponent runs away? Is it a good thing that in order to defeat someone you might focus on his base?

Already started to question myself. Maybe I am not good enough in PVP yet. If you consider yourself being a superb PVP player please let me know how you kill equally strong opponents in an open field battle. I’m talking about level 60 fully skilled and geared people (weapons, armor, perks, potions, war paint, alcohol etc).

3 Likes

Dunno what’s so hard for Funcom to implement ONE of the easiest solutions to spamming heals.

Cooldown - Honestly, this must be foreign idea to them. Nothing they did on Testlive [which btw doesn’t work] is doing anything good for how players can just heal over n over n over again.

It’s hard[maybe not] to do anything about the ‘running’ people away. Things that comes up to my mind would be improving Archery and making it MORE viable and with better cripple effect, another thing they COULD do is to slow people down more when they try to RUN and move LEFT n RIGHT. It’s kinda bullcrap how easy it is to dodge arrows when running away with your back turned to the enemy strifing left n right.

Yes there should be a chance for ‘Running’ away, but there should be equal chance for a person to stop the other one from running away [Everything Skill based, not “Shift - Run” based]. So far there is nothing equal about it.

They must add something that rushes at the enemy and wraps around him. This is the whole solution, but they do not play their game, and everything is good for them. You can kill only the noob, a good player will never die, just by pressing shift. Bow is useless, as long as you shoot at the enemy, he will already run away.

This is one of 100,000 problems that you will encounter on pvp-servers that people go by. There are still many problems in the raid. You are destroying the wall, they will build it right away, here’s an example for you.

Do you want more? You deal 1 weapon damage on buildings, except for doors. Do you know what this means? The fact that on pvp servers, good clans, there will be no doors, there will be foundations, ie, the foundation is left to lay the foundation, etc. And FUNCOM does not understand this, but everyone will see it in the release), I already warned. They make one mistake after another.

And there is a bug that already a year can be, which allowed us to save my friend’s things when he got into such a situation. And there are a lot of bugs about which the players are silent, but with such a construction during the raid these bugs will simply save us.

Running it works in pvp from the very beginning of the game, the solution is simple, but, alas, for them it’s difficult. As well as the cooldown of the Hilk.

It’s a known thing that PVP combat in this game is still missing some core fundamentals. The healing is starting to get addressed but the real fundamental problems are that it’s nearly impossible to hit moving targets (that aren’t crippled or swinging at you) and there is no reason to attack someone first (take a risk, waste stamina, start at a disadvantage).

Since they rushed the game for launch they scrapped a parry system or anything that would take an extreme revamping of weapon attacks & precise hitboxes because it would take a lot of time. Making archery super powerful again is not the answer at all. I admit it could probably use a small boost in power but I would only see that being balanced if you sacrificed snake arrows, since it’s the only kind people use in PVP for the poison stacks. If you could poison someone from medium distance easily (and thus prevent them from healing) then everyone would be forced to use a bow. The major buff archery needs now, even more than damage, is for them to make arrow projectile speed much faster. It should feel like you can hit a target at close to medium range if your cursor is on them when you shoot.

Dark Souls handled combat by having a large variety of attacks, a parry system, and the ability to have an offhand (or swap to one quickly) that could easily deal damage (the crossbow had a fairly long “reload” cooldown, though). In other words they have sprinting attacks for lunges, a priority system for interrupting attacks, a parry system to counter non-interruptible attacks, etc. The last one is significant because this game doesn’t have it. Weapons with hyperarmor simply win trades against non-hyperarmor weapons no matter what and that severely limits playstyle and weapon choice if an opponent simply waits until you attack and then trades (this leads back to fundamental problem #2).

They only took some of what Dark Souls had with the big weapons having hyperarmor, but didn’t implement an actual counter to this besides using other hyperarmor weapons or blocking (which isn’t really a counter, more like a stalemate). That means whichever hyperarmor weapon does more damage and armor penetration will win a trade fight-- which most fights turn into because it’s so difficult to hit anything that wants to get away from you and isn’t crippled.

This game NEEDS a counter for everything to be balanced, as people will simply gravitate to what they can exploit and they will always find something to exploit because there is a serious part of the combat system missing. That means we need more options in combat, we need some sort of jumping attack & chase attack, we need some way to surprise opponents by suddenly switching to a sidearm (or other weapon) and be able to attack with it right away. We need some sort of “backstab” ability that rewards players for facing their opponent and punishes those that attempt to run in the middle of a fight. We need to be able to surprise opponents with combinations of attacks that they can’t predict-- right now it’s just “1234” with mostly heavy attacks, and it gets old pretty fast.

Honestly I’d like to know what they are planning with combat, especially since Oscar mentioned a possible “mixup” system where we could potentially mix&match the combo order of attacks or effects.

2 Likes

They should use a system for weapons attacks like GW2 do, each attack have an effect (dmg, cc or debuff). And you could choose wich attack to use instead of having to chain it to reach it.

On testlive right now you can’t use bandages to heal with a weapon out or moving. They heal significantly less than they did before.

Allow potions don’t work as well with a weapon out as I understand it already. They have added in Crippling which lowers the the ability to flee and armour sundering.

It suggests that in PvP once you get to a certain level you need to actually have a few players or many PvPers aren’t very good.

1 Like

@Anzark
Buffing the bow or cripple effect is the first idea that people come up with. Could be a solution but I don’t really want to see Archer builds in Conan Exiles. Let us be honest. Between the lines I read ‘I want to be an archer to be able to kill you from distance while kiting or circle-jerk around you or while running away from you… Afterwards I will laugh at you in chat because you could not reach me.’ I love that Conan has a focus on melee combat.

But you might have identified the real problem: MOVEMENT SPEED > ATTACK SPEED
Yesterday I just kept rolling around my enemy for five minutes. I can watch him trying to pull off combos and attacks while writing a mesage on my cellphone (yes, exaggerated).

I also agree that some skill based mechanism that makes you catch people would be great. Or weapons like bolas. Maybe the ‘fix’ will have to do with manipulating grit or grit regeneration.

@xx_alucard
Yeah, some kind of ‘chase attack’ could be nice.

@Kaziklu
I’m waiting how the recent patches will affect the gameplay but I assume they will only adress the length of a battle until the first player starts running away. I don’t get your last sentence though?!

I needed some time to get along with the new combat system. I was realy sceptic at the beginning, but now i think it is better then before.

Even in general, i thought CE would be dead a couple of months before, after the big update of around 11 GBytes it’s realy fun - great job - but CE realy needed it.

Bow damage and building bugs are the worst for me right now. So please keep up, great game great potencial!

Much love to all
Loui

For me the combat is “lovely” but it’s not a combat experience at all.
It’s more or less the same as before, but more eyecandy and thus looking more mature gamewise.

In my view a player is executing coupled animations and skill will be how good you refine how the actions/animations fit in the situation/and (lag)connection and trying to get to the hitboxes.

I did not expect combat to be “real combat” like tho. Not in CE at least, its a mix of all sorts of nice game aspects, but the game is hardly a purist combat game.
Was not intended to be but somewhere along the line of EA players wished to be satisfied with a change of the combat system.

In my opinion that like paniked fixation on combat was not the best idea during EA.
And it probably didn’t even satisfy the players who asked for it in the end who will be playing battle royale again by now.

My 2 cts , have a great day!

This new combat system is why I finally made the jump to this game (bought it when it went to testlive). I played testlive and live, and got stuck in testlive because the combat was so addicting (mmo-esque). Bows are not OP, but they can be effective when used as a side arm and with a steady mouse. I have shot down people running from a fight by anticipating the pattern of left-right (with 0 accuracy, standing still heavy shots). The weapons all seem very balanced now, aside from the useless short range mace.

With regards to healing, it is OP in the current live build, but that will change at launch. Healing wraps will only work when disarmed and standing still, and other healing effects stop when you take damage. Healing from food will be nerfed massively (according to the streams).

The only thing i miss about the old combat, is the double tap to roll. I accidentally hit the “exit to desktop” button consistently when panicking to roll unexpectedly.

As is combat is set for launch, healing took a huge nerf so that issue is hopefully fixed. Bows imo should be removed period. Climb a cliff before melee guy, shoot he falls down. He’s trapped, straight bs

I like the new combat it takes some thought on what weapons to use against an opponent depending on their set-up (Counter play). You need to use good timing or you will over commit and get taxed for it. They have been vocal about working on healing balance which was an issue for sure.

Concerning building while in combat…If you are trying to siege a base the entire concept evolved around locking them in and outlasting their resources…

Overpowering a stronghold can be done but you need overwhelming force essentially knocking down the walls and charging in to slaughter at several points at once.

I don’t want to knock down a wall once and then walk through the hole and “Win”. It should be incredibly difficult and time consuming to destroy someones hard work they have many, many hours invested in.

Summary: Combat is fun now, it does involve counter play and timing is key to winning a fight. Animations are nice looking and you can over commit to an attack and die for it…which I love.

It needs a bit of tweaking but it is a vast improvement from the first version.

1 Like

I think the combat is very good against monsters, but still needs some more work to be more successful in PvP. My major gripes are:

  • Players can heal too much in combat. Once they realize they are getting low, they will run around and heal. This shouldn’t be a viable strategy.
  • It’s hard to connect hits with moving players. The attacks seem to have too little range.
  • It’s hard to finish off an enemy who is just about to die, and is running away.

I understand that combat needs to be fun for everyone, and so ‘fleeing’ should still be an option. However it is too much of an option currently, even when you are one hit from death.

My favoured solution would be to implement movement speed cripple relating to what % of HP you have remaining. This would resolve the running around problems that we’re experiencing.

And if we’re also on the topic of sieges, I’d suggest that respawning defensive thralls would be a great way to lengthen sieges and make them more exciting.

Serious?
The combat is way better now. Yes, it’s hard to kill experienced players, but what’s so bad about that? The fight is still great, and running away was always an option; that part is not new. If you really need to have the other guy be killed, it’s no problem… just bring a friend with you.
What Funcom has truly acheived is the proof that you can never satisfy everyone. They have tried very hard, and they have made a fantastic game, yet here we are…

1 Like

(I use you a fair bit here… I don’t mean You Ascay specifically but a general you. I tend to use language a little oddly to some and it can be misunderstood I’m not calling You out for anything)

The player has the same options in PvP as they do in PvE. Which means you need to get better at finding crippling blows. If you can land them at the right moments they can’t move faster than you. Alternatively they can learn the same and hit you and then run giving them a good start. They can heal and healing is being nerfed significantly. Which I understand. It will make PvE a little harder but not in the worse way.

If you have two people that want to fight and one person runs away you kinda won… but you want a corpse. That is your issue not the games. If you are on a PvP server and you attack someone and they run away it means one of two things. Either you were ganking them while they were doing something else and they didn’t want to fight in the first place. At which point that is your issue not the games as the game has made solo ganking/griefing difficult. They aren’t very good realized that and really shouldn’t be on a PvP server. If you want to do that get a friend or two and do more DPS.

That second option of course means that PvP players may just not be very good and are primarily cowards that only want to fight if they can win. They only stay in a fight in other games because the game forces it. This game doesn’t. Which just shows the true colours of most PvP players. This is a comment less on the game then on PvP community as a whole. It also shows PvPers aren’t about defeating an opponent, which forcing them to retreat is doing, but have a deep seeded need for a flesh pinata.

The Change to healing will impact Bandages heavily. They do only 40-80 healing and can only be used without a weapon and standing still. As I understand it Aloe potions do much less healing with a weapon out but you can move. You can do the same with the right food. So their will still be options but bandages will be harder.

In the end they have to balance PvE and PvP and the PvE in the game is paramount to the developers it would seem. If the biggest complaint the PvP community has is the lack of Flesh Pinata because people run away QQ. As I said if this is happening so regularly that it is a problem that means most PvP players are ultimately cowards pretending to be tough guys, not very good and can’t use the mechanics well enough and thus complain about combat not being robust enough but at the same time just wanting to spam click, or that they are a ganker/griefer and are upset that their play style isn’t catered to.

If it is the first: that is an issue with the PvP community not the game.
If PvPers really wanted to fight to the death they would.
If it is the second: git gud.
If the third: QQ go play ark.

1 Like