It doesn’t make stamina management pointless. It just makes punishment for running out less severe. It just means running out of stamina wont be a death sentence. The meta before this was to get your opponent to run out of stamina so you can essentially execute them. Paired with the changes to healing, the new stamina system makes sense for a more dynamic pvp experience.
I think you are forgetting the fundamental trade offs that the different armors have. More armor means less sustain, and vise versa. Sustaining your stamina allows you to perform attacks, dodges, and also allows you to sprint. In light armor, you are much more susceptible to damage, but the trade off is that you have more sustain. This sustain can be used to create distance or to fallow up with a longer combo, etc. Regen is now based on weight. Heavy armor weighs more and offers less sustain, which means you may have to compensate by allocating skill points into more grit and more enc. In light armor, I can focus more on things like damage dealing attributes or more health, and have a better carry capacity. I hope this helps explain the method to the madness.
There’s further refinements to stamina management and regeneration depending on the armor used coming in the next Testlive revision. Keep an eye out and keep sending us input about these new changes.
Thanks for your feedback.
Yes, this is so true. They want to go easy mode for the remaining PvE players. Because the hardcore PvP elite already left the game.
Heavy was the way to go before too, because of horses/thralls/cat pets. Only a few servers with no catpet/horse rules would allow players to go light armor. Well, light armor was META for over 2 years. So “FUNdamentally inCOMpetent” is like: “Let’s dump this and make heavy mandatory!”
HEAVY IS LIGHTER THAN LIGHT ARMOR! 20 Encumbrance was used in all screenshots. Yes I put bulked platings on the light armor, because you NEED the extra armor. But you can get more armor and less weight with heavy by using a weight reduction armorer and armor reduction kits.
I completely disagree - in fact the most solid argument I’ve seen from anyone in support of the changes was from PVP players arguing that it made the game more interesting (something about no longer just being able to run people down till they run out of stamina). As a PVE player, I find the changes unnecessary and making it too easy. Some people disagree, but most of them from what I’ve seen have been PVPers. My point in the original post was not that this was ‘good for PVE and bad for PVP’ - my point was that I view it as a reduction in skill requirement - which is a complaint more often made by PVPers. PVE players aren’t looking for ‘easy mode’, we just don’t happen to want the same things as PVPers.
In fact, you could just as easily look at this as Funcom making a deliberate attempt to make PVP easier for newcomers to help increase the PVP base - trying to alter the meta, as PVPers apparently want, without having to wreck things for PVE. I don’t think it is successful if that was the intent, but there are good reasons why horses work the way they do and followers work the way they do - they already had a lot of changes to try to make them more suitable for PVP and that came close to wrecking them for PVE. Funcom is trying a delicate balancing act to get all play modes functioning - I don’t think it always works by any means, but it’s also not just about supporting PVE.
Well, there’s your problem. I put weight reduction/armor reduction on light armor. Bulked plating multiplies weight by 2.5x. If you multiply the weight of light armor, it’s not surprising it winds up heavier than heavy armor. It makes perfect sense, because something that is specialised for a purpose (eg heavy armor) is generally better for that purpose than something that wasn’t designed for it but is roughly converted to that purpose. This just shows that bulked plating isn’t a great choice for player armor.
As I stated in the op - I do feel this stamina change makes heavy armor the obvious choice and creates less variety - but that wasn’t the intention of the change - they just made it easier to use heavier armor because there’s too little variation between the three. Using kits to turn light armor into poorly made heavy armour and turn heavy armor into a lighter version doesn’t really prove much.
This is still the case. If someone decides to run, then they will run. If they have more or equal stamina, they will never die.
This is what I just wrote.
I am pretty much aware of this. But they fail patch over patch with it. Hence my new name for Funcom. Players already gave them the advise of playing their own game. But they seem to ignore this for almost 3 years. They could just seperate the game modes. Things like FollowerDamageTowardsPlayers should’ve been in the game since the follower mechanic got introduced.
If they would play on PvP servers, they would know about the roll bug (rolling in place). They would know about weapons turning invisible. They would know about players turning invisible when rolling. They would’ve known way earlier about Yog’s Touch just pooping on any kind of armor. They would’ve known earlier that thralls just oneshot players in PvP. They would know how to go undermesh. They would know about body vaults. They would know that drawbridges are META in basebuilding, because of their insane HP (you can make certain base locations unraidable if one person from the defending clan is online).
And I can go on. The points I mentioned should also be not well known to PvE players, because they do not PvP.
EDIT: In Last Oasis, there is a dev in every major big clan’s discord. Those devs take information from the players DIRECTLY to see what is currently META, broken or OP. And they balance those things very quickly (compared to Funcom).
It sounds like we’re in agreement that the stamina changes are not something either of us particularly likes. I was primarily responding to your comment about ‘easy mode for the remaining PVE players’ - because that looked a lot like the frequently made arguments (by both ‘sides’) that change X is ‘proof’ that ‘they only want to support the other play mode’; and also seemed like the also frequent claim that PVE players just want it easy and don’t want to have to learn to play well.
If that wasn’t your intention,no worries. (And I think I now see what you were meaning - I took it as ‘make it easy to suit PVE players’, but now realise you meant ‘make it easy which also impacts PVE players’ - quite a different meaning). Guess I fell into the trap of assuming hostility on that one. My apologies.
Except that everyone on PvP servers uses bulked plating on light armor in order to stay competitive. 125 armor is important, especially in the low range of armor values.
You do not play PvP, you said that and it is obvious in the way you put your arguments.
But why even change stam in first place? You guys need to learn that dont change stuff that ain’t broken.
Stamina management and regen is actually one of the things that’s been really good for a long time. And now u change it? For what reason?
Stamina management is one of few things that makes this game challenging and punishing if u dont manage it good enough in PVP/combat but with these changes I feel like u dont need to care about it as much.
One thing I like is that stam should be different for light, medium and heavy armors. You should need to use more stam per hit with heavy than for example light. But I think stamregen should be the same as it is now.
And also, hope this isnt only a change for the players, also should be a stam fix on mounts, wich is actually totally broken right now. And has been like this for year wich is ridiculous.
Frankly I don’t give a toss what people do in PVP - I explained to you why light armour plus bulked platings is not as good as heavy armour. At this point I’ve just had enough of PVP players continually taking the approach that they are the only ones that know how to play the game. All the decent PVP voices that were worth discussing with appear to have left. Sod it, I tried being civil, I tried being nice. From now on maybe I should take the same approach to PVP that PVP players seem to insist on taking to PVE and just focus on arguing that PVP is the reason we can’t have a fully functioning PVE game and should be removed as a game mode. Happy now?
Yeah, no - you’re not going to derail yet another thread into your PVP whining.
@Ignasi - please feel free to shut this thread down - heck ignore my opening review as well, if that helps - you already called for civility. Clearly we’re not going to achieve it here.
Closing thread as per request.
Thanks for the feedback shared in the initial post @DanQuixote. It was fair and we’ve been working on ironing out the shield issues with Revision 1, and with the upcoming Revision 2, which will address additional problems with the shields, as well as a new balance pass to stamina regeneration for armors.
Once these new changes are out, please feel free to open a new thread. Hopefully there will be room for more constructive dialogue that can be used to fuel more tweaks for a future revision.
