Better Thrall System

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
1

Ok, in the past days I’ve had a chance to reflect. I have to thank @Kapoteeni, for he’s right. I’ve been childish, arrogant and too much “passive-aggressive”. Well, maybe not that passive :laughing:

By the way, he was right. I’ve been so saddened from the update that I’ve gone crazy. I insulted the Devs and, while I still think I was right about the “balance not being balanced”, I had no right to insult, offend and annoy people.

As I said I still think that, at the moment, Thrall System is messy. Here’s why:

  1. Attribute System is not equal for every thrall. Some gains more Damage/Health Bonus from attributes than others. Why having Attribute System if it’s not equal for everyone ? Just give them the values you want and be done with it.

  2. Now we have lower-tier Faction Thralls (Darfari) that get stronger than higher-tier factions ones. IF there was no Level System, it would be balanced. But Thralls can level-up and so Darfari (Cannibal Brutes in particoular) gain more Health per VIT and more Damage per STR/AGI than other thralls. This means that, at high levels (and notice that being T1 Faction they even level up faster), they become WAY STRONGER than anything else.

  3. Now (but, honestly, even before) we have Fighers that make better archers than Archers. Cannibal Brutes have 2.8 Ranged Multiplier. Which Archer get so much ? What’s the point of having Archers (which already have lower health than fighers) if, even with bows, Fighters are better than them ?

The old topic has probably been closed by now, but I did make a simple scheme that, I think, would make Thrall System way more balanced and clean. I made that scheme again and modified some parts to make it more interesting.

Let's start by defining FACTION TIERS:
TIER LEVEL-UP SPEED GROWTH CHANCE FACTIONS
T1 FAST 360% Exiles, Darfari
T2 MEDIUM 320% Black Hand, Dogs of Desert, Nordheimers
T3 SLOW 280% Cimmerians, Relic Hunters, Volcano, Lemurians
  • The higher the Tier, the lower will be the total growth chances.
  • The higher the Tier, the slower will be the level-up.
  • Do notice that T3 Factions are the ones at the edge of the map.
Now let's define how ATTRIBUTES work for every Thrall:
  • Health Bonus per VIT: +2.5% (of Base Health)
  • Damage Bonus per STR/AGI: +1%
  • Armor Bonus per GRT: +15
Now let's define the BASE STATS for every Thrall:

They are based on:

  • Faction Tier (T1 - T2 - T3)
  • Thrall Tier (I - II - III - IV)
  • Thrall Type (Fighter - Archer - Dancer - Bearer)

FIGHTER I:
Base Health: 600 (T1) - 900 (T2) - 1200 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.2 (T1) - 1.4 (T2) - 1.6 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.6 (T1) - 0.7 (T2) - 0.8 (T3)

FIGHTER II:
Base Health: 700 (T1) - 1000 (T2) - 1300 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.3 (T1) - 1.5 (T2) - 1.7 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.65 (T1) - 0.75 (T2) - 0.85 (T3)

FIGHTER III:
Base Health: 750 (T1) - 1100 (T2) - 1450 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.4 (T1) - 1.6 (T2) - 1.8 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.7 (T1) - 0.8 (T2) - 0.9 (T3)

FIGHTER IV:
Base Health: 800 (T1) - 1200 (T2) - 1600 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.5 (T1) - 1.75 (T2) - 2.0 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.75 (T1) - 0.85 (T2) - 1.0 (T3)

ARCHER I:
Base Health: 450 (T1) - 600 (T2) - 750 (T3)
Melee Mult: 0.9 (T1) - 1.05 (T2) - 1.2 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 1.2 (T1) - 1.4 (T2) - 1.6 (T3)

ARCHER II:
Base Health: 500 (T1) - 700 (T2) - 900 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.0 (T1) - 1.15 (T2) - 1.25 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 1.3 (T1) - 1.5 (T2) - 1.7 (T3)

ARCHER III:
Base Health: 550 (T1) - 800 (T2) - 1050 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.05 (T1) - 1.2 (T2) - 1.35 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 1.4 (T1) - 1.6 (T2) - 1.8 (T3)

ARCHER IV:
Base Health: 600 (T1) - 900 (T2) - 1200 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.15 (T1) - 1.3 (T2) - 1.5 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 1.5 (T1) - 1.75 (T2) - 2.0 (T3)

DANCER I:
Base Health: 400 (T1) - 500 (T2) - 600 (T3)
Melee Mult: 0.9 (T1) - 1.05 (T2) - 1.2 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.6 (T1) - 0.8 (T2) - 1.0 (T3)

DANCER II:
Base Health: 450 (T1) - 600 (T2) - 750 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.0 (T1) - 1.2 (T2) - 1.4 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.8 (T1) - 1.0 (T2) - 1.2 (T3)

DANCER III:
Base Health: 500 (T1) - 700 (T2) - 900 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.1 (T1) - 1.35 (T2) - 1.6 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.9 (T1) - 1.1 (T2) - 1.3 (T3)

DANCER IV:
Base Health: 550 (T1) - 800 (T2) - 1050 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.2 (T1) - 1.5 (T2) - 1.8 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 1.0 (T1) - 1.25 (T2) - 1.5 (T3)

BEARER I:
Base Health: 600 (T1) - 1000 (T2) - 1400 (T3)
Melee Mult: 0.6 (T1) - 0.75 (T2) - 0.9 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.4 (T1) - 0.5 (T2) - 0.6 (T3)
Inventory Size: 10

BEARER II:
Base Health: 800 (T1) - 1200 (T2) - 1600 (T3)
Melee Mult: 0.75 (T1) - 0.9 (T2) - 1.05 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.5 (T1) - 0.6 (T2) - 0.7 (T3)
Inventory Size: 15

BEARER III:
Base Health: 1.000 (T1) - 1400 (T2) - 1800 (T3)
Melee Mult: 0.9 (T1) - 1.05 (T2) - 1.2 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.6 (T1) - 0.7 (T2) - 0.8 (T3)
Inventory Size: 20

BEARER IV:
Base Health: 1.200 (T1) - 1600 (T2) - 2000 (T3)
Melee Mult: 1.15 (T1) - 1.2 (T2) - 1.35 (T3)
Ranged Mult: 0.7 (T1) - 0.8 (T2) - 0.9 (T3)
Inventory Size: 25

Finally, let's define STARTING ATTRIBUTES for each Thrall:

They are based on:

  • Faction
  • Thrall Type
  • Thrall Tier

FACTIONS:

  • Exiles: +5 STR, +5 AGI, +5 VIT, +5 GRT
  • Darfari: +5 STR, +5 VIT, +10 GRT
  • Black Hand: +5 STR, +5 AGI, +10 VIT
  • Dogs of the Desert: +10 AGI, +5 VIT, +5 GRT
  • Nordheimers: +10 STR, +5 VIT, +5 GRT
  • Cimmerians: +10 STR, +10 VIT
  • Lemurians: +10 STR, +10 GRT
  • Relic Hunters: +10 AGI, +5 VIT, +5 GRT
  • Volcano: +10 VIT, +10 GRT

TYPE/TIER:

  • Fighter I: +2 VIT, +2 GRT
  • Fighter II: +4 VIT, +4 GRT
  • Fighter III: +7 VIT, +7 GRT
  • Fighter IV: +10 VIT, +10 GRT
  • Archer I: +2 AGI, +1 VIT, +1 GRT
  • Archer II: +4 AGI, +2 VIT, +2 GRT
  • Archer III: +7 AGI, +3 VIT, +3 GRT
  • Archer IV: +10 AGI, +5 VIT, +5 GRT
  • Dancer I: +3 AGI, +1 VIT
  • Dancer II: +6 AGI, +2 VIT
  • Dancer III: +10 AGI, +3 VIT
  • Dancer IV: +15 AGI, +5 VIT
  • Bearer I: +1 STR, +2 VIT, +1 GRT
  • Bearer II: +2 STR, +4 VIT, +2 GRT
  • Bearer III: +3 STR, +7 VIT, +3 GRT
  • Bearer IV: +5 STR, +10 VIT, +5 GRT
Also, let's define some SPECIAL THRALLS which have modified Base Stats:
  • Cannibal Brutes: +1 Melee Multiplier, x0 Ranged Multiplier, -300 Base Health
  • Cimmerian Berserkers: +0.3 Melee Multiplier, x0 Ranged Multiplier, -400 Base Health

Do note that there could be other Special Thralls: I just named Brutes and Berserker cause they are the most famous, but I would consider some among the Exiles and Dogs of Desert too.

FINAL NOTES:

  • Cannibal Brutes are still the Top Damaging Thrall, but their Health is dramatically low (and STAYS dramatically low) and it’s just fair, cause they come from T1 Faction and level FASTER than anything else. They are basically Glass Cannons.

  • Health per VIT now scales on BASE HEALTH, so Cimmerian Berserkers will have Starting Health (and gain as much Health per VIT) as a T2 Thrall, but have Melee Damage higher than normal T3 Thralls.

  • This system in fair for ALL THRALLS. There won’t be Thralls that grow stronger than others, but all of them share the same system and values.

  • Unique behaviors will still be implemented through Special Thralls: they give up some Base Stats to get other bonses, which helps keeping the system balanced.

  • This system is very simple as the number of variables is low and so keeping everything balanced is pretty easy, especially compared to the previous one.

  • This system respect Thralls role, so there won’t be Fighters that make better Archers than Archers or vice-versa.

  • Base Attributes are not determined by Factions only, but Thrall Type will have a role as well, and it does makes sense cause starting Attributes are now fully determined by Thrall’s past experience as member of a specific faction with a specific role.

I really hope Devs and Staffer read this, so that even if they don't want to implement it as it is, maybe that would still give them ideas or, at least, highlights problems.

Take this for what it is, a caring suggestion from a caring player, who loves this game and only wishes for it to be the best game ever.

5 Likes
2

You could make a mod for Conan Exiles with all these changes.

1 Like
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You raise some very valid points. The “hidden multipliers” make trying to figure out which thrall is better a real pain in the tailbone. That’s nothing new, of course - the hidden modifiers have existed for a long time, they were just thrown around a little. Well, maybe a lot.

If one Faction gets 30 Starting Vitality, but only half the hitpoints per point as a Faction that starts with 15 Vitality, the “Vitality Faction” ends up less tanky than the other. Or a Faction that starts with a high Strength score but has a lower “damage/point of Strength” modifier than others ends up hitting less hard than the other.

I understand why the hidden damage modifiers exist. Without them, a Darfari Cannibal Brute swinging a Darfari cudgel would be no threat to anyone because the damage is based on the weapon and, as far as I understand, the wild versions of NPCs don’t use stats, just the weapon damage * the “hidden modifier”. But when that modifier ends up on enthralled NPCs too, the balance breaks.

And, uh, yeah, why does someone who never uses a bow in the wild have an exceptionally high ranged damage modifier? Did the update give Cannibal Brutes throwing weapons? (I’ve mostly played on Siptah so haven’t gone much around the Exiled Lands.)

Also, a big shout-out to Xevyr, without whose efforts all of this analyzing and throwing around numbers would be much harder.

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Bravo for the analyzes and suggestions, nice work. Everything I love to help advance the game, I also hope the Devs smooth this out

Do not hesitate to see what I have also proposed, always with the aim of improving the Conan Exiles experience as much as possible

2 Likes
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Just to talk, do you guys think devs will ever read this ?

2 Likes
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I think so or else it should be soon. Funcom seems strict on the rules not to scatter ideas (No discord channel, no direct contact with developers) Everything is directed here and the forum is very readable. There are always data published by devs on the forum.

But actually there is no exchange/debate with Funcom directly. In my opinion I find it unfortunate that there is no notification (Read by a member of Funcom) for example. Or “In research, in development, refused…”
Or a somewhat “summary” message posted by a developer each week/month to respond to all the proposals, for example. Which could have been discussed internally

1 Like
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Nah, this is not how you run a company. Sure Funcom lacks communication, but that’s not where the issue lies at all. You wouldn’t be asking for communication and acknowledgement of ideas if the updates to Conan Exiles were clean, well thought-out, balanced, and with little to no bugs.

1 Like
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Yes I agree on this.
I played lots of games and no one had communication between company and community.

Problem here is that Funcom has moved lots of people to Dune Project, which makes sense, but leaves CE with new guys, who probably never played the game. And this is a critical moment for CE, as it’s implementing new mechanics and changing most of the game system.

That’s why I think HERE we need communication between Devs and Community. Maybe filtered communication, but there must be. Or the result is what we just seen.

BTW, quick update, I finally dropped Sword of Crom yesterday !
After 4 years I finally got it. It’s useless, since I can’t give it to a Thrall and now it can’t even be repaired, but I got it :smiley:

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Yes, each studio has its own way of communicating. And I think what we’re all proposing here on the forum is seen at some point. We spend so much time on a game that we love, and I think we’re able to stick around for years to come and still spend in the game, and that’s also why it’s frustrating, not having the feeling of being listened to sometimes or still seeing bugs/problems that have persisted for years, when sometimes we know that it can only be a little work for it.

I think we must above all continue to make noise and remain constructive :smiley:

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Yes. They just don’t usually comment, because dev replies will too often be misinterpreted as approval of an idea, or a promise to make it happen. But we’ve seen Den on the forums a few times commenting in a teasing fashion about a suggestion or feedback which apparently is already in the works.

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