Bows and Arrows


#1

I think we should have more Bows in the game. Maybe a Dragon Bone Bow or DBB for short. I just think that Bows are a bit under powered in my opinion.


#2

I agree … I think the most recent dev stream said more are coming.

I would like to see explosive arrows that use dragon powder or heck let’s have the fire arrows ignite the tar orbs perhaps … just an idea. (I think the fire arrow is being looking into also from dev stream).


#3

I agree with more varieties of bows (who would disagree?), but I think that bows need to have much less of a presence in-game overall.

There’s a problem that has been going on for a long time, with archery being especially overpowered in PvE. NPCs are easily exploited with ranged weapons. You can climb a cliff, and shoot NPCs with arrows from the top, and you can usually kill Rhinos, Bears, and some of the toughest creatures by just shooting them with arrows. Javelins and throwing axes are also exploitable, but to a much lesser extent.

I’m in favor of more bows, so long as they are tougher to acquire, and too expensive to use as a ‘farming tool’. Bows should be a secondary, ‘utility’ weapon, rather than a main weapon. It’s just too easy to exploit the AI with them.

I say, give them many and various costs. Make them require feathers to craft (as has been hinted at in the dev stream leaks). Make them require more vital materials, and give fewer arrows. And for Crom’s sake, make Snake Arrows more costly to craft!


#4

well an easy way to fix that is to decrease the power of the arrows themselves and have them as more of a effect additor. Like use set arrow for poison effect but the arrows themselves have less damage so that the bow itself is what is causing the damage. That could be a fix in the future ?


#5

they need to find a way to have an arrow rival the snake arrows. Snake arrows are just toooo good to keep out of your inventory.


#6

Archer players should be strong with the bow, and FC is making changes with aiming so its not op for every build, if you can’t dodge/block an arrow, it should hurt as it does in reality, “utility” weapon is a cheap solution to avoid a balance problem in the game.

One thing is a overpower weapon with superior dmg, another thing is AI problem, dont use the bow nerf to justify a PvE problem.

Also, ancient humans used to hunt mammoth and other dangerous animals just by distance with spears/javelins and Bows!

Imagine someone asking a nerf to your favorite weapon, I hope you understand me.


#7

I wasn’t exactly saying to nerf it too much but if they do add stronger bows then the arrows should mean less than the bow itself. I do know archery does need to be stronger since, when I have a full end game armor set and have a good melee and a good shield I can blow through rank 3 thralls and maybe rank 4 thralls on a good day no problem, but my friend who I play with always gets killed and he has the ancient bow and good armor. I do know archery needs to be improved just meaning not to boost it to much or then everyone would go for archery.


#8

Don’t forget they are changing all the weapons damage and armor defenses too so all weapon damage will be lower than on live. Also bows will be less accurate when moving now so they won’t be bad in PvP. As far as PvE stuff goes they mentioned that if someone is just sniping npc’s from a rock where they can’t get up to the NPC will just start to run away. Other than that I don’t think there’s much you can do unless they come up with something else.


#9

Yeah, I totally understand. And keep in mind I’m not a developer, or related to Funcom at all, and I won’t be the one making the calls on how to balance the game. I’m just providing my opinion based on my experiences.

I have an appreciation for archery (I’ve done archery quite a bit in the past, IRL).

My suggestions aren’t to nerf archery necessarily. My suggestions are to make bows more of a special weapon. By making bows rarer, more expensive to build, use, and maintain, devoted archers can be even more devoted, while we will see fewer bows used by non-archers. A devoted archer should be a skilled marksman — skilled in both using the bow, and understanding the materials for the bow.

The fault that I’ve identified isn’t directly with bows, but more to do with the enemy AI. My suggested fix is to make bows more rare — javelins and throwing axes are less of an issue, as they have much lower range, and less exploit potential.

I’ll make my suggestion more concrete:

  • Bows get a new material/repair requirement: Bowstring
  • Arrows get a new material requirement: Feathers
  • Arrows get a new material requirement: Shafts
  • High-leveled bows and arrows require expensive and unique materials, including oil for an ‘Oiled Bowstring’, and specially-treated wood for a ‘Hardened Shaft’

In effect, this should make high-level archery require more dedication from would-be archers. If you look at raiding videos, you can see that every Spartan from here to the Frozen North is packing a bow. They should be wielding javelins instead.


#10

I agree the weapon being “harder” to acquire thus being harder to use but rewarding in skill, there the real archers would shine.


#11

Add a gland or 2 to the recipe for a stack of snake arrows, that should make it harder to aquire and less appealing. Then they could maybe add a weaker or equal power variation to craft spider arrows so not everyone runs around trying to harvest snakes only.

As for arrows, I think they need to remove damage from arrows themselves (excluding the poison/burn effects) and relocate it into the bows. Then figure something else for arrows that would give people an incentive to even craft higher tiers. They could do things like armor penetration, having star metal practically ignore armor, or add a chilling debuff to ice arrows that stack up frostbite on them (lower temperature by like 4% per stack for 15 seconds).

Fire arrows are said to be bugged by the last dev stream I believe. Joel said they aren’t intended to light enemies on fire ever on their own, but they were supposed to ignite tar fields and such.


#12

Someone else even mentioned stun arrows for thralls to be enslaved…
Also I would like to see more different poison arrows, inflicting higher or lower temperature, eventually have the target overheat or freeze to death…

Actually I would prefer for 75% of dmg coming from bow, while remaining 25% should be from arrows. Or make it 50/50 at most. Starmetal arrows deal more dmg than ancient bow, I think something is wrong there…

I dont agree on bows only being a utility thing.
I prefer to be able and pick a playstyle that suits me. And that is ranged fighting.
I would totally feel betrayed if I was forced to use melee as main weapons since playing melee doesn’t suit me at all. And dont try to have me switch to Ark. I dislike how one envolves from primitive to high tech there… (Literally sniping there… Or whatever is possible by now…)
If ranged playstyles will be deleted from this game, I dont want to play this anymore. Fighting makes up like at least 50% of the game, which means I would come to dislike 50% (or more) of the game. Easy as that.
It should be obvious that I dont want that to happen!
I want to stick playing this game in the way I want to play it.

I like roughly staying in one tech. I think starmetal should be the last step. (Those should fall over some completely random part of the map though! So people will have to keep their eyes peeled on whole map, not only on snowy north.)

I do second anyone on balancing things though!
Like best bow+best arrow only dealing as much dmg as the same kind of hit with the best melee two handed weapon. (Archers cant make use of a shield and thus those ranged weapons are twohanded weapons -> so make them be on par with two handed melee weapons! Though one should reduce their dmg by 10 to max 25% due to archers being able to kite their foes. But no more than that! And I think Funcom already balances out like that. (If you compare ancient bow+starmetal arrow with kingslayer polearm.)
I still need less heavy hits on some fighter III in new asagarth then heavy shots on fighter III there…
Remember: you cant really use the black ice swords on those -> as they might come with 270 heavy dmg they only got 1% penetration! They should at least be equipped with armor penetration (15%).

And dont forget: archery already comes with higher costs if using highest arrows! Also archers need more encumbrance than melees. (At least 5 encumbrance more.)
Only snake arrows are cheap. Bone arrows being worst with 10 bones and 10 fiber plant giving 1 arrow… Not worth. But since 100 arrows are used up in like 15 mins of playing, you cant make people farm an hour for 15 mins fighting! Instead, maybe branches should be as rare as bark when chopping wood.

I would prefer to keep some first person aiming and delete that “lock on” feature. Make that “lock on” some serveroption which is turned off by default. It is basically an included aim bot but archery should require to take aim oneself. If someone is bad at that, he should eighter become better (or use some better bow) OR stick to melee.

Also I still dislike melees being able to use high tiered bows and vice versa, archers being able to use high tiered melee weapons. Because both is an issue.
I still think we should have requirements on gear to wear it. (Though stats need to be sorted out first, as agility, grit and survival seem to be mixed up in their purposes.)
Which stats is obvious for weapons though! (Only the twin daggers on testlive arent that clear right now, as people should be very good in movement for them. I guess thats agility meant to deliver.) Like 40+ for hardened steel/kingslayer/black ice/starmetal. Or 40+ for ancient bow/even higher tiered bow.
Required treshholds for armor would base on a movement stat plus some defense stat.


#13

I actually believe bow should have bow’s strength as a multiplier to the arrow damage instead of damage.
You wouldn’t do any damage by shooting “air arrow” unless you attack with ti in melee like in some movie.

But if flint arrow deal 10damage and you have a ancient bow with 2 multiplier, then it would do 20 damage. If you have star metal arrow that deal 40damage and a dragon bow with 3 multiplier then it would do 120damage.

Bow is so underwhelming and they are actually nerfing it while moving, even though it’s barely usable atm…


#14

They are adding more bows as part of the new combat update.


#15

Ok ignore that thing.
I installed testlive (again ._.) and found the ego-possibibilty there. (last checkbox on gameplay, for those who are interested… it’s just ugly how the arms are getting in the way for each heavy shot… blocks like the entire display… :'D)

And I forgot one thing for archers: They dont consume any stamina, please review that, if that is actually intended. I could see this being an issue in pvp, since people can even more easily kite people around like that. (stamina gets used by sprinting only…)
Also, how will inaccuracy affect “lock on”?

Ah so did you mean the multiplier. Sounds interesting. Could be a little hard if we get too many bows though.


#16

There was a patch earlier.
I had a little fun with admin stuff and spawned a few things.
Legendary bow (12 dmg)+star metal arrow (13 dmg)… compared to some kingslayer spear (50dmg).
I was running around slaughtering a few rocknoses.
3 hits with 20 str. (and said spear)
~3,3 hits with 35 (+5) accuracy. (and said bow+arrow)
If I had no crash a few min ago (like the third in not even 10 mins) I would have spawned in some lotus potion and tried the same with 40 str instead. Maybe its only 2 hits then?
That actually is underpowered. (Compared to melee.)

That would mean that I have to shoot 4 times while someone who wields any melee weapon (some obsidian sword hat 52 dmg) only has to strike twice. That seems unbalanced to me. Yes. I can kite enemies around. (Not as good as before, since shots now consume stamina as well.) How many arrows per player compared to the number of melee hits?
Then to take lags into account (servers arent perfect, neighter are all players machines perfect and have best connection) which means some enemy could suddenly have moved and now be standing almost in melee range, leaving the archer totally exposed with him not really dealing dmg.

I do like the “new” bow though. Like how the crosshair actually works and stuff. (That way I can live without first person as well…)

That said, I am no expert for numbers and will leave calculating things to those who like to do that.

Dear devs. Guess what. Since I wasnt the one to create this thread, it means I am not the sole bow loving player out there. Why nerv those things into inviability? Is it this hard to balance things out without demolishing a playstyle?
Yes, that is some 5 min playtime saltyness. Will update it when I got new numbers (stat tab).


#17

thanks for the heads up since I’m a console player I can’t see these numbers currently but maybe it will be better when your max level and have a sole focused archery build with no melee points. We will have to wait and see.


#18

Well, in the like 5 mins before next crash…
20 strenght+35 accuracy
-> with eye of khan?(+5 accu) plus star metal arrow => 48 ranged dmg.
40 strenght+40 grit
-> with kingslayer spear => 90 melee dmg
-> with kingslayer daggers => 68 dmg

So a bow isnt even on par with daggers? Bloody daggers?..


#19

hmm, what do 20 points of strength do ? Is there like a perk bonus at 20 ?


#20

Crippled foes get +25% dmg.
Though I dont know if that even applies on bows anymore, probably not. (since accu 30 is gone for good)
So I get to lower those to 10 str (stunning thralls) and invest the other points elsewhere.