Bug Reports and Funcom

Someone is taking the time to collect long-term bugs in your game and instead of thanking him and fixing the bugs, your reaction is to close the topic midway and tell him that the dev team cannot be bothered to read a bug list in the bug forum - no the customer should go the extra mile to insert all bugs in your stupid useless template.
By the way, it is your job to find and fix bugs, not the job of the paying customers. Customers like me for example, who paid 260 Euros for the game + Addon + DLCs + Bazar + Battlepass.
You know just as well as me that platform, game mode, server type, server name, and even map don’t matter for 95% of bug reports. Also, there is exactly one person at Funcom that sometimes works on fixing bugs. It is not like there were 3 different bug-fixing departments you had to distribute issues to.

Funcom is really beyond salvation.

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There are bugs that have been around for YEARS. Get more people on this, Funcom.

My guess is that they plug the template into some kind of database.

Which would mean that by you not using the template as asked initially and again in the message above, you’re making it harder on the obviously short staff.

I don’t agree that they shouldn’t receive bug information in any way. However, as someone that has developed templates and forms, I can attest that the request is warranted depending on their workflow.

Additionally, there’s an important part missing in the information provided: reproduction.

As well, while you think some things don’t matter - sometimes they do. So if you’re clear on when, where, how and why, if you do know, it’s easier for them to rule out other things.

Bugs are just one element. They’ve always had the issue of utilizing free community support (ex.,: Discord).

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Do you know how “Karen” that sounds?

Not saying there aren’t bugs that are way past needing to be fixed.
Or the game isn’t making enough to pay people to fix them.
But that statement just drips with “privileged”.

I bought the game and all the DLCs. I basically sub to the battle pass; that’s a pays for it self thing. But I don’t think funcom owes me any more then the person that got the game on sale at $10 the one time it was and hasn’t spent another dime. I think they owe everyone that plays a better game.

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IMG_3960

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Haha I love that @Deamo

I’m forwarding that to my group at work :joy:

I think this one and your other points are reasonable. To sum them up, it would have been easier for Funcom if I had used the template, agreed.
On the other hand, I want to argue, that players are not part of their workforce. So for us, it cannot be mandatory to follow their workflow in helping them. Why not just let me have my list, and ask me to insert it in the template as well when I am finished?
One reason, for the list was to give an overview on how bugged Siptah is. For me, because I wanted to confirm a feeling I had about it, as well as for the Funcom, so they can understand how broken it feels atm. And this won’t work if I use the template only.

:smile: Now I do. I don’t think Funcom owes me more than any other player as well, and I am sorry if I miscommunicated that.
The thing is, for us to be able to pay that amount of money, Funcom has to charge it. And if you charge customers that amount of money for a game you better make a damn good, damn big, and damn polished one.
If Conan Exiles just was damn polished, it would be damn good easily.

I bought so much software over the years and no other product in this price segment was that broken.

@Deamo :smile: :smile: :smile:

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@Kikigirl pretty much nailed it…

You need to understand something… The people reading and collecting bug reports are NOT the developers (which you seem to know since you mentioned the “one person working on them” - not the case btw).

In fact… some of them might not have even played the game… :man_shrugging: like… they have a job as a customer support staff member… they’re not paid to play the game so they may or may not play it in their spare time… They will ofc still have some basic information on it and some checklists to follow, but it does mean that if you deliver your report in a “casual” format, it might not even make sense to them and they’re certainly not going to “read between the lines” and assume the missing information like fellow players would.

They however NEED to do a couple of things…
First of all they need to log the bug - as an individual bug and NEVER as a collection… (so “bug collection lists” are useless) - in their internal bug-tracker system that the developers then can look over
And second… they need to make sure that they filter out as many of the reports that aren’t actually bugs as they can, so they don’t waste the developers time.

Now… this last part unfortunately means that they might sometimes end up “wasting” your time by asking additional questions… requesting video / screenshots etc. but the template is there as a first step to cover some of the basic checklist…
As an example if you mention that you use mods, they will always 100% of the time tell you to disable them and try again, since that’s simply their protocol.

Bottom line… they’re doing what their job is… and yes, it can occasionally be frustrating when they close your report without giving you the opportunity to clarify things, though in this case you had a list with multiple issues in the same thread, no reproduction steps and not even basic info of where you play so that thread was not in the slightest bit useful for them :man_shrugging:

Then simply don’t post in the bug reports section :man_shrugging: That’s what that is for… volunteer people who are willing to report stuff in as much detail as possible and follow through with information.

If you just want to rant about how a bunch of things are broken and they haven’t fixed it for years, you can just post that in General :slight_smile: but the bug report section is something that customer support has to process one way or another.

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You think that mentioning how you think “things work” makes them immune to criticism and kills any argument. But often enough, “the way things work” in a company is the very thing that is broken and should be criticized.
If you produce a game with live service aspects that has bugs older than Methusalem, then the things just don’t work as they should.

For example, if customer support staff members don’t know the game they are the customer support of - that would be a problem.
If they can’t log a collection of bugs - that would be a problem.
If there is more than one person per hour working on bug fixing, and this is the outcome - that would be a problem.
If wasting my time is okay but wasting their time is not - that would be a problem.

Tell me again that I am wrong and Funcom processes bugs the perfect and right way once they are all gone.

Bug lists are not useless, they normally get distilled in the mentioned bug trackers and get listed again in patch notes. Some of the trackers are even open to the players, making it so much easier, for example using Trello.
Not using mods when reporting bugs is common sense in 2024 at least for people who take the time to report bugs for a this old game.

All my bugs only need one step to reproduce - turn on the game and try it. For real:
Bug: No epic variant of delved armors.
Reproduction: delve the armor and look at the trait.
It is not like an RPG bug where a special line of text won’t appear if you eat the apple of justice while dancing with a crocodile and saying the words “Trug Backer” twice before talking to the thunderbox.
This unnecessary information is just slowing you down. Which devs time is saved by reading: Turn on PC. Start Steam. Start Conan Exiles. Collect ???. Give ??? into altar. Start surge. Wait for mobs. Kill Mobs. Loot armor. Ride to your base. (Maybe build the base first?). Build a delving bench. Ride to a dungeon. Fight through the dungeon. Kill the inhabitants. Loot the Chest. Bring eldarium to the base. Melt eldarium in kiln. Bring eldarium bars to the delving bench. Delve the armor. learn the recipe. Go to the traits tab…
Man… there is an error in the traits database regarding delved armors. Check it.

And I also mentioned that my bugs work on any platform or server. Because that’s how database errors work. Today I wanted to add, that hardened steel weapons looted from the Black Hand in Siptah state, that they were variable but aren’t. How the hack would a database error like this only affect PC PvP Servers on Mondays? That is not how Unreal Engine works.

How do you really do good, effective bug fixing at eye level with the players who take time to report them?
You could for example open your bug tracker to the players. Display priorities and let the tracker be searched to avoid duplicates. Let the players feed new bugs in a waiting-for-confirmation state. Let a Funcom employee discard or forward bugs. Let anyone vote on bugs, so Funcom gets a feeling for what is important to the players. Display which bugs are currently worked on.

Or alternatively, release the game and its updates in a near-flawless state.

Because at the moment players report bugs for nothing. Reporting them is unnecessarily harder than it must be. And even the finest filled templates will not be touched by Funcom and the bugs will remain as they are. Proven by the years they already exist.

Nope, as the above example illustrates :slight_smile: You still carried on criticizing, so obviously there was no immunity spell cast by my post :joy:

You’re still wrong, but no, Funcom doesn’t process bugs the “perfect and right way”… in fact… no larger company in this century does… shocker… only the very tiny family businesses are the ones who might manage their customer support in an actual customer-centric way :slight_smile:

(everyone else is pretty much trying to make it as hard as possible to reach the actual people responsible for change… contact forms that loop back to “smart” FAQ websites… without an actual means of contacting real people… outsourced customer support quite often who appear to be paid based on how many people they manage to keep away from the actual company… etc. etc… when’s the last time you managed to reach Steam support btw? Considering some of the other prime examples… Funcom is actually average and doing “fine”-ish in that department)

They are most definitely useless… in fact… very often even full bug reports are useless without a reliable reproduction method…
If it’s a known issue thou, then listing known issues for them on the forums is equally useless… if you can throw in a “one-liner” and actually can expect them to know what that is about, then it’s almost certain that it has already been reported… it was logged and they’re aware…
And no… that does not mean they will actually fix it in this decade… :man_shrugging: They make their little priority lists and some bugs simply don’t make the list as they’re not important enough in the context that they’re evaluating them in.

Tell that to all the people reporting them while using mods :slight_smile: Something that is common sense for one person, might not be common sense for others.

As you can see it has been reported and logged… like I said above… (there are at least 10+ other full reports all of which have been flagged as “report received” so yes, it’s definitely logged)

So in that context… what did your bug report add to that? Was there any new information?

No, that could not… obviously… however if someone would report that from a modded server then there’s obviously a chance that some mod is disabling the mechanic…
Keep in mind that the text “Variable” on weapons is mere text… so it could be a simple description inconsistency, not necessarily a mechanic bug… but it does appear to be on most unique weapons :man_shrugging: maybe you should report that in its separate bug report since there don’t seem to be any reports on it.

Like I said above… typing up a shopping list of already known issues, and then making a rant post when that gets locked isn’t exactly “taking the time to report” :slight_smile: But if that’s your definition of it… sure…

Not the case :man_shrugging: reports get logged when reported properly and they’re actual bugs… sometimes… they even get fixed.
But just because an already known issue didn’t get fixed, doesn’t mean they’re somehow unaware of it… most of them are simply prioritized so low that they never get around to them…

This part I agree with… not because of the existence of a “template” or the fact that they locked your shopping list…
but rather because the template should be better… maybe a bug report in a form-style instead of something the users then need to copy-paste in a new thread…
Way too many times they end up with a bug report that says the following and nothing more:

This should be a red flag. Plus, people would probably be happier to fill out forms if it was an actual form that they can fill information into directly.

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Imagine this scene in a car repair shop:

A person enters the shop and adresses the employee attending the front desk:
C: “Hello! My car has lost a tire again!”
E: “Sorry, can’t help you with that. We need your family name, first name, second name if applicable, but not any third or more names, street, house number, apartment number, city, ZIP code, place of birth, date of purchase, exact car model identified by the manufacturer’s product number, and some other information before you get to describe your problem. In that particular order.”
C: “My name is Rene Watson, and…”
E: “IN THAT ORDER. Don’t you listen!? I can’t enter the order if you don’t give me the information in the order of our form.”
C: “Oh, okay, I just thought you knew me and the problem. We spoke last week, dou you remember? And you specifically asked me to report any problems here. That particular tire fell of twice again after I had it replaced at this shop and…”
E: “In that order, I said. I can’t work with people like you; that stresses me out. Also, I’m not the person that fixes tires, I’m just the front desk person, so please don’t bother me with technical mumbo-jumbo about tires and stuff. Please leave the premises. Oh, also, would you like to buy a new seat cover which people usually sit on but which you cannot sit on? It’s only 24.99!”

Will that shop thrive economically? I think not.

If you bring your car to the car repair shop, they will accept the contract even if

  • you do not describe what you want in the very exact order they want to hear it,
  • can only describe the problem in vague terms,
  • don’t know how to read and write,
  • are too stupid or lazy to fill out their form yourself and
  • don’t know anything about cars.

The better the description, the nicer you are, the more you stick to their routine, the faster, cheaper and possibly better the work may get done.
But they don’t flat out refuse to accept an order because the customer gives his information in the wrong order or has - gasp - installed third party hardware in the car like fuzzy dice or a custom gear handle.

Because they want your money.

Also, some people actually like to do their job and help people, but let’s stick to the cold economic reality here.

Funcom also wants money.

Funcom’s service level, sadly, does not reach the level a typical car repair shop would provide, especially regarding bugs.

In a game sold “as is” for a one-time fee, not handling bugs still would be questionable, as a seller has to provide a working product. But one might argue about what level of “working” gamers do and should expect - thanks the Bethesda for lowering the bar on that.

But in a “live service game”, which Conan Exiles is supposed to be if I understand their marketing correctly, that ain’t acceptable. You should not take the customer’s money, but not provide a certain level of quality. That smells like a scam and will drive customers away.

Switching the business model from selling a finished* game to providing a service does not mean you get money for free. The “service” part also costs money.

*as in: “development was ended”.

P. S.: Telith’s ghost is still missing. Can’t believe I forgot to mention that.

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Except… that’s a completely incorrect analogy since they’re not there to help you when you submit a bug report… there’s no resolution to expect from that… it’s you notifying them of something. (Like you can’t expect them to say… “here, let me fix that bug for you so you can get on with your day…”)
So an equivalent analogy would be filing a report to the tire manufacturer about the quality of rubber they use… and you can bet you $ss you’ll have to list your whole family tree in whatever order they want it for you to get an official report in :))

Which kinda makes the rest of your post simply not fit the scenario :man_shrugging:

Since when has what you paid for a game made a difference in it’s quality?
The problem is when people keep throwing money at the bazaar even though they see the game isn’t improving.

As long as funcom has been working on Conan exiles it should be polished like chrome, but it’s as shiny as cast iron. The game has multiple legacy bugs, proof money doesn’t fix bugs.

I am an aquarium savant. One of the few things I am better then average at, and did it retail for 6 years. When a customer came in with an issue but couldn’t tell me what fish were in the tank, what filters were on it, or what size it was, there was no way I could really help. I could make an educated guess, but that’s not a solution.
I also did alpha testing for quite a few years; apps and games. I generally didn’t file a report a bug if I couldn’t get it to repeat. The more exact the steps the easier it is to produce and find the cause. I had all my PC info on a note page to copy and paste in the bug reports, then gave a step by step.

Maybe they need to open a specific bug report section, when you select to post in to it it pops up a page for you to fill out and post as a thread.

You know that and the very basics; PC info, server, mode, is all you need. The hyperbole does not help your argument.

And why is it so hard to relay that bit of information? They’re not asking you for your great great grand mother maiden name.

:100:

:100: :discopug:

Oh you don’t have to imagine that, call a garage :smile_cat:
Local garage you bring your car in and set up an appointment and come back. Or call in, either way they want name, address, vehicle info, issue info, payment method. And this is a one man garage.

But your analogy{hate the spell checekr} doesn’t work. If funcom was a garage you’d have to compare it more with a car dealership in a major metropolitan area. Where at no point are you actually going to be talking to the mechanic. You talk to customer service either on the phone or at the front desk.

Thing is show me a garage that has over 10K customers a day, and I’ll show you a garage that works as well as funcom.

Old Bob working bay 137, gets the work sheet, says “customer hears rattle”. Knows it’s going to be a long day and more then likely a dissatisfied customer.

No. It’s the opposite actually. The moment the game becomes a profit dead end, it will be put in maintenance mode and that’s that. All bugs that don’t completely break the game stay in it for good.

The chance of things improving only exists while there is profit to be made. That stops, development stops, improvements stop.
It stays “as is”.

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That is an inevitability, that I know you are aware of.

Yes, and?

And if people don’t see improvement funcom wont see profits.

I am all for helping funcom to help us. When I’m on testlive and hit a bug
1: I try to get it to repeat.
2: I check the bug reports for something similar.
3: If some one has filed one already I may confirm it; depending on if it’s been acknowledge by funcom.

But it seems like such a waste of time when said bugs, even when reported early on on testlive, inevitably go live.

Where did we lose this expectation? Because that is exactly what should happen. We the players are allowing it to be normal not to happen.
When a customer comes to me with a bug or other problem for one of my games, I personally try to solve it. Because I feel bad about it. If it is a database bug that affects more than one person (which happens seldom), I correct it and upload it to Steam before even answering the post, because it takes me just 5 minutes to do it. For everyone else, I try to answer with a possible solution in 24 hours.

Granted, it is a tiny family business as you would call it, and the player base is even tinier. However, I am not the dedicated bug-fixing programmer, the community manager, or part of the support team. None of these exist. I am a story writer, game designer, 3D artist, and animator, and check the forums at the same time. And if I can do it besides working on the next game and writing lengthy Conan Exiles posts, paid community support should easily be able to.
In short, yes small teams often have less support work to do, but big teams have dedicated people for it. And btw the beta bug lists in our smaller projects look exactly like shopping lists. Bug trackers only pay off with a certain number of coders and testers. Why do people think game development was some magical endeavor? It is just normal people who have learned a relevant skill doing stuff they enjoy for money.
But I don’t want to “rant on” based on my personal experience because, for one, I know it is not the same the deeper you get in the industry. And secondly, I also don’t think you have to make games to be able to criticize some of the processes in the gaming industry.
As a side note, I do appreciate the criticism on said processes by Larian though. Did you see how many bugs Larian can fix in a month btw?

Regarding the known issues:
That’s the very point. I know these issues are known. For long. What effect has another filled-out template with the same issues?
That’s the reason I chose to write a list. Seeing at a glance how many bugs are currently in the game and that the players are aware of them would put more pressure on fixing them. A lot? No. But what else can we do? I could post the same List as a Steam review but I don’t want to damage Funcom, I want them to fix their game. Because I like it and care. Who would have guessed?

I wish Funcom employees would like their game as much as I do.

So that it is the way it is supposed to be? Because if not, it is to be criticized.

Agreed. But when the customer told you he was feeding his fish with milk, you didn’t need any more information. The information you need depends on the bug.
Spelling error - only the line and the language necessary.
Item stats error - only the item and the stat necessary.
Game won’t start - platform, Hardware, OS, and so on are all of a sudden of interest.
Suggestion: Make a category selector and adjust the template based on the category.

The hyperbole does not help your argument either. :smile:

Edit (sorry forgot to answer): It is not hard, I used the template before and I would have used it if the support asked me. All I am annoyed by is, that I cannot even finish my list. Why close it? Just ask me to use the template and everybody is happy. I can write an extensive list and try to generate awareness. Funcom gets everything filled into its template and can do with it what it wants.

The fact is: There are too many bugs in the game to report them by template if you really go for catching them all in your spare time.

And I agree with everything Khaletohep said.
Same with MarcosC.

In a way, I look forward to the game’s “dead end”. Because then everything in the bazaar will be sold as a last all-in-one package for I guess 30 Euros and a community patch will fix all remaining bugs. The live service aspect is not healthy for the game’s quality. It ending would be though.

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Precisely! Your situation is nothing like Funcoms, so you can’t really try to draw parallels between the two

What effect does a list have though? You do realize that even if customer support actually processes your list… they are going to go through it… and any entry that they already find logged in their bugtracker that does not have any new information to add, they’re simply going to check off as “already logged” and not do anything with it…

So how does that help you… the developers… or anyone that you made a list of already known issues as a new bug report? :man_shrugging: It’s just more work for the customer support staff that they could spend on logging actual newly found bugs and the developers are not going to get any new information or even so much as a “bump” on the issue since it’s going to be all filtered out as “already logged”.


But, for the sake of discussion, let’s actually go through your list.

It actually does… I reported this bug a while back and they did fix it and it was in the patch-notes

Have you tried placing eldarium in the dismantling bench when you don’t play on Siptah to see what happens? Yes… they get converted to star metal on other maps since Siptah legendaries now drop on EL based on tags and they wanted to give you star metal when dismantling those. Not a bug.

Not sure what you mean with this :man_shrugging: do they not get staggered or something? or are you not getting sounds when you hit them? Which type? with what weapon? etc. How is customer support supposed to log a report based on that?

Reported several times and logged… here’s the latest one

These are all the same and yes, it’s been reported a million times, here’s an example
Also, it’s already fixed in Chapter 4

Already fixed in Chapter 4

Not a bug

Already reported multiple times… example

Obviously this has been reported to oblivion as it’s been a thing forever… I doubt throwing it on a list at this point is going to do much for this. They fall underground FYI, if you walk a bit further from them, they’ll pop back up…

This one’s a bit of a complicated one, the jest of it is that the interact events don’t trigger on the escape key, more of an engine issue, if you were to press the interact key again, they would close… but it’s also a known issue.
As for why the vanilla chests work? those are a bit more expensive… they use skeletal meshes and actually keep track of players looking inside them.


So… are you really trying to convince me that your bug report was super useful and that there was actual stuff in here that brought new information which CS staff could log?

And don’t get me wrong, I never said that their bug fixing practices are in any way good, instead you can see me say the opposite quite often.
But in this case, objectively speaking, I think that they did the correct thing in closing that report as it was simply not useful for them, the customer support staff that is meant to process the report simply wouldn’t have been able to do that due to the nature of the report… no details… lots of separate already known and logged issues listed with no new information.
It would’ve just needlessly wasted their time tracking down all those separate things only to see that they’re already logged.

In any case, I think I said everything I could have said in this thread so I’ll be moving along :smiley:
Cheers!

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So is death. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to live for as long as we can. :wink:

And it’s better if some at least are corrected. Otherwise why do you care about reporting them? Right?

Tottaly sucks.

Kinda the same as my list…

… but my intent with it was to condense the information into one post while encouraging the community to add to it. A 1 stop shop if you will.

When I find something I can report on I also make a proper bug report though. Some of it I haven’t because I know it’s already been reported or I’m still trying to figure out how to reproduce it.

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