Combat Overhaul - (Weapon Suggestion "Megathread" too?) - Up to you all

Bear with me, I get into some thorough details for all this, but I think its worth “humoring” and speculating.

The current system is really nice and getting better. I remember before the combat was overhauled how much more streamlined everything was.

But I would suggest it is still not complete, yet going in the right direction.

Here are some suggestions for combat, going over status effects (bleeding, cripple, etc), stutter/staggering, multiple weapon status effects, and a parry system and how it could all work.

I have tried to find suggestions and ways to make these work with current system (as in, using stats animations and variables the game is already based on, ofc it will need some work, but its not like adding a completely new mechanic to the game like a super meter so we can do fatalities, lol. Even the parry mechanic works based on the current system)

  1. Bleeding
  2. Cripple Complete Rework
    2.2) Low Health Cripple
  3. Stutter/Stagger/Stun Rework
  4. Parry and Blocking
  5. Status Effects based on Attack/
    Weapon Multiple Status Effects and Weapon Rework
  6. Weapon Switch Delay (almost forgot this one)

01 Bleeding

Make it shorter. Half the time. 10 seconds is too much during any combat, with a reset back to 10 seconds every time its added again, and a stack of up to 20.
5 seconds should be enough. Making the combat more dynamic at this point with giving an actual incentive to keep a distance to “shrug” it off, etc.

02.1 Cripple Complete Rework

I think cripple should work as a stamina and staggering multiplier.

As in, crippled players will use up twice as much stamina for everything they do, and the stagger threshold will be smaller (will make more sense when I go into stagger/stutter later on)

edit: essentially, it does the same thing, as your stamina running out sooner will have you cripple about anyway. just that it delays this effect a little, yet makes it more potent when it happens (when stamina is out). I like the instant cripple effect, but sometimes it feels like it is worked around a lot. Even for chasing, the new cripple will have them out of breath faster for one to chase them down)

02.2 Low Health Cripple

Additionally, the current cripple effect (but not as dominant, make us go slower than normal, but slightly faster than we do with current cripple) should be added to low health. It will not have a duration. Always on until we heal passed the given HP threshold (10% hp sound good? Less? 8%?)

Would make for an interesting option/slider too for private servers to fiddle with, on/off, less/more threshold.

Would also help as a visual aid that we are almost done for. The animation for this is already there. Now our speed will simply reflect this animation as well. Will surely help vs escaping players too. If you lost the battle, it should be easier for the enemy to off you.

You can still fight as per normal (like now) with this effect, so making a comeback is possible and simply reduces the “I’m almost dead so I will run away forever now” mentality and make for more committing to the end of a combat. Adds for realism generally. You lost, so take it like a champ, and if possible, come back from it and destroy your enemies and see them driven before you.

At the same time, it will reduce the overused “grit” chasing allowing for more creative builds.

03 Stutter/Stagger/Stun Rework

Please, for the love of god this needs to change. Its gotten better, but it is really still not working well atm.

Add a stagger threshold to players. Not every scratch the enemy does to us should have us stagger like a hammer smacked us on the side of the face. And it will also not make combat vs multiple opponents simply unrealistic and silly as we sit there in a stun-lock with just one option to get out of it, dodge. This does not result in dynamic combat.

Some weapons will exceed this stun/stagger/knockback threshold on their first hit, such attacks especially that apply sunder.

The threshold can also be increased with the Survival Attribute (lets continue down the path of making this attribute have some actual reasoning behind using it).

Furthermore, allow for a threshold “recharge” during this state so we are not in a stunlock (kinda works like a second stamina bar we dont see). Upon the recharge we can get out of stagger with more than just a dodge, but with an attack (reversal could be the idea here) or simply raising your shield back up during combat to break the combo and be able to start pushing back again.

The recharge time needed I was thinking could be also decreased with the Agility attribute. Whilst being able to “combo-break” with an attack could be unlocked with the Strength feat. All this adding again more viability to creative builds that have attributes that effect combat even more in some manner.

The stutter threshold is also affected by cripple (I pointed to this already before) making us more susceptible to being stunned etc.

Dodging/rolling, out of stagger/stun lock can still work, however it will not recharge the stun-threshold, instead it will slightly increase it.

Again, more options to dynamically chose your actions during combat. Do I dodge more often, use up stamina, increase my stun-recharge making me susceptible to stagger again however quickly get out of harms way? Or can I tank out some of that damage and then push out of it fresher and new?

Lastly, Grit can effect how much damage we take during stagger/stun. Perhaps at 0 Grit we take even increased damage. And adding more grit goes to slightly reduce the damage to normal and further after that (30+ points) to start decreasing the damage we take from it.

Still debating with myself on the Grit idea, but it could again add even more dynamic build options.

(Ive been using that word a lot… dynamic… That really is the whole basis of all of this)

04 Parry and Blocking

Give a small 1 second (1 second to warrant as a buffer due to online lag, otherwise Id suggest less) “invulnerable” status when we first enter block to our stagger. Additionally, an attacker is pushed back instead of us. (unlike current system with a pointless “we are both being pushed back” mechanic).

At the same time, the stun-threshold I spoke of in length is still effected whilst blocking, slower, but still depletes. Upon depletion, we are pushed out of a block. Ofc, weapons or attacks (kick) that have the purpose of doing this anyway, still do sooner than our stun-threshold is exceded.

When in the parry state, our stun-threshold does not get effected. Perhaps to counter some balance into this mechanic, some stamina can be used to perform said parry.

05 Status Effects based on Attack/
Weapon Multiple Status Effects and Weapon Rework

Bleeding, Sunder and Cripple should be executable with more than just the weapon choice. A specific weapon can excel in a certain status effect type of course, and some weapons can completely not have a said status effect period due to their nature still (hammers with regards to bleeding for example)

Each weapon can become more viable this way, however not all weapons will work the same. Increasing the options again for (you guessed it) a more dynamic fighting world both for PvP and PvE.

Some rare and legendary weapons from there on can have only one trait and be stronger in it, or all the other non-normal traits they are starting to add to weapons atm already (like corruption, etc).

Simply put, a sword slash should cripple, a sword stab should bleed, the sword being better for stabbing should lean towards having better bleeds, an axe being better at slashing should lean towards better cripples.

  1. One example is the Axe-
    The Overhead “jump-in” attack can have now sunder.
    Weaker than mace having sunder.
    No bleed, cripple instead.
    Shield smashing as offhand should also have sunder. Much less than a weapon sunder, but there regardless.
    (Forgot to mention, sunder should also effect the new stun-threshold more than any other attack and at times completely bypass it)

I mean, why does Axe have bleed? And good AoE? And usually more damage? But only slightly slower? Rework there too i think.

Imo all “slash” like attacks should go towards a cripple effect more (the new cripple) as in cutting a tendon or muscle, whilst poking attacks pierce your and should lean over to bleeding effects (sure a slash can be also for bleeding realistically, however if we chose one of each per status effect the combat starts to make sense, and as per having to chose each attack to each status effect, it is more likely for a slash to cut a tendon to cripple than a pierce, and a pierce to dig in and have a gushing wound for bleeding.)

Weapons that are prone to doing certain status effects more goes without say will do a better job at it, whilst some weapons might not have said attack effects at all. This adds small buffs all around to all weapons, yet keeps their primary characteristics in check (except for those that I think need changing, like I stated Swords should cause bleed, axes cripple, etc), and adds an understandable element to the combat system as well.

Some attacks goes without say can also add 2 status effects, one slightly less potent than the other ofc. Daggers for example could be a combo of cripple and bleed to still make up for their short range and added status effects to all other weapons, etc.

Should help greatly with getting rid of specific weapon-based-meta gameplay (as in, this style is the best, so deal with it) and allow for more options. Should also make for some very interesting legendary combos possible with weapons.

06 Weapon Switch Delay

I almost forgot this one. This is simply broken, and this is coming from someone that does it a lot btw.
There should be a limit to how many times we can switch weapons around per given interval. This will need testing ofc, I can’t think of a number off the top of my head. 1 second? 5 seconds?

Just add a cooldown timer that locks weapons till its over. Same thing as being in an attack state more or less.

Based on such a system, what further changes will one make to say weapons for example and how would they balance attacks and damages etc with said system, or what would you change/add etc to the current combat and/or weapons?

While we are on this, a system like this could make it easier to add more weapon types. Without having to stick to one element per weapon like it is now (sword for cripple, axe for aoe and bleed, spear for bleed and range, cc, etc) and with having each weapon have access to different status effects, it wont be redundant adding something like a greater axe, etc. For that example, a greater axe could be the same thing simply better at sunder and/or more stun-threshold damage. Generally speaking, more weapon variations could easily be dropped into the formula provided the animations are done for it. All they need to decide is what attack types they use (say like the spear, how many are stabbing, how many slashing, which is which from heavy and light attack, etc)


Nah, people need to bleed out if they don’t “bandage” soon enough. However I’d like to see heavy armor nearly immune to bleed effects. Its fun stacking bleed on someone who decides to trade with you and watching them panic and run knowing they’re going to die.

Yes, but with 5 seconds the same thing still happens. Its still long enough to be potent with so many stacks and it still refreshes the timer each time, making bleeding a de-buff more during the fight as opposed to something that can keep doing damage later. I think poison should take that spot. Feels redundant no?

If not 5 seconds, maybe 7. 10 is silly imo. Sure, there are a lot of things fun about what we do in the game, still doesnt make it feel balanced. Like the weapon switching I mentioned, sometimes there is so much of it going on its silly :laughing:

Axe, oh no, spear, ha, bow! Naa, eat an explosive jar, hah, spear, ha, bow, ha, spear :laughing::rofl:

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Phew:eyes: Took me a while but I made it! Must’ve taken you a while to put this post together! :grin:

I enjoyed your ideas on adding variety to the combat system. Personally I would like a combat system that doesn’t require the player to get into deep analysis of the mechanics to be effective. These things should just feel natural!

I think the bleed duration is fine given that healing wraps now instantly clear the debuff.

Low health cripple(aka limp mode) sounds great! It would feel natural! Nothing is more irritating than an enemy escaping with 5 hp… It would keep battles more engaging and tactical as more players would learn to more cautious.

Stagger/stun should definitely get worked on. The duration and severity should depend on the weapon and armor involved and attributes. i.e. Heavy armor should only be staggered by hammers/maces in heavy attacks, medium armor by 2 handed swords/maces/hammers, light armor by anything. Attributes could further increase/decrease these effects.

Weapon switch delay just seems… Yuck… Why? How is it broken? There are already animation delays between swapping and using, so what about this needs to be nerfed(essentially)? There have been many times where the flow of combat changes drastically and I need a different weapon to adapt. Taking that ability away would diminish the experience IMO.

Thanks for the post and I look forward to the discussions! :+1::sunglasses:

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I disagree. A combat system should not be natural except for the basics. You must go into deep analysis to get better if you want to master it.
And I’ll add that what is natural for some people is not at all natural for as many other people. But analysis is the same for all.

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Hardly noticed how long it took xD Just came out on the fly since its some things I was pondering on for a while.

I agree to some extent about a combat system feeling natural. Im somewhere in the middle of that. Designing it or explaining it ofc however can be quite analytical.

If anything I’m thinking that the added stagger system would feel natural and wont be something one thinks of. However, getting into the details is what perhaps will give someone the edge in a situation. Kind of like real life too I guess. We all can pick up a sword and start swinging and stabbing with it (provided it is light enough). Extensive practice however is what will teach someone, on something which already feels natural, how to get the most out of it.

Same goes for simplifying attacks to slash being cripple stab being bleed I think. This way you don’t even have to remember what each weapon does, you see what hits you / coming to hit you and just know.

Idk, I still need to test the bandages idea to see how it feels with bleed. Im thinking that a combat effect that is naturally just a part of the combat (bleeding, crippling, sunder) should not be something that requires external factors so much to overcome. I mean poison for example, lets go realistically on it, is like one is dipping their blade/arrow/whatever into poison. Its a process. Healing/defending from it should also be a process. Said potion, etc.

Healing bleeding fast is a good thing. But it shouldn’t in my opinion be something that heavily requires a process to get rid of or else its a 10 second ordeal (much more actually, that is since last hit. lol).

Counter argument could be ofc, its bleeding, if you are bleeding realistically it should go on for a day and ONLY bandages should stop it :smile: So I guess there can be varying options to that I agree.

Interesting, I hadn’t thought of armours how they would effect stagger as well. Nice. Perhaps light armours could be easier to stun (if say said stagger-threshold is in this case adapted, they have a smaller threshold) but replenish faster (come back out of it sooner), and heavy the opposite. Harder to stagger, takes longer to get out of stun. Hmmm, should make for more interesting choices to armour preference too.

Well, with the delay, again, I dont know how much it will need. Ofc its not something that will take ages and ruin the flow completely. But as you said, the flow of the combat changes drastically, so you need a different weapon. At which point, you switch. Switching back however right away I think is just, well its just me but I think it is really broken. Only weapon that feels much more like it applies a delay is changing to daggers.

You seen some of those videos too? Has spear, tosses explosive jar out, pulls spear out again all in 1-2 seconds. Bad example but you get what I mean (I personally see this as a bad example because it goes into another suggestion I had. Making things like explosives and orbs used like skills. As in, they do not get equipped. Whilst on the weapons you have out you pull an orb out and toss it, and keep fighting.

But for all other changes. Idk, seems too much for me and so unrealistic too. And dont get me wrong, I do it a lot too. Im currently running around (PvE-C, mostly PvE though) with daggers, sword and shield, shield and spear, and usually a 4th option with greatsword too. I love dynamically changing around, but I think (especially in PvP) this creates even less commitment to a fighting style.

Idk, maybe its a silly idea that one. I mean if it works, dont fix it. Just that Ive seen some really annoying confrontations out there that just threw me out of the immersion completely. Even the thralls, for all their broken AI :stuck_out_tongue: feel more realistic on their weapon switch times.

Same here man, Thnx for the response and for taking the time to read through it :nerd_face:

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Yeah I agree with those points too. Im like I said somewhere in the middle of this. It should feel natural, easy to pick up, but have depth when you pull a magnifying glass to it.
Its what differentiates from a brute smacking you with a sword and a samurai that has spent years learning the perfect angle to just lob your head off with one swing :laughing:

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Agree that it needs an overhaul, but only agree with like 25% of your suggestions.

Bleed should remain the same, but increase stamina usage like you suggested for cripple (blood loss=lightheaded=less stamina/passout). The stamima usage increase would have to be much more humble however than what you suggested for cripple, just because bleed is much easier to proc.

Cripple doesn’t need an overhaul, but it does need SIGNIFICANT buffs to make running away a bit more difficult. It’s so easy to run and cripple is super hard to proc+ literally useless rn. Anything less than 3 stacks does nothing, especially with second encumbrance perk. I’d like to see cripples be 50% more effective, and also have every hit on somebody below 20% health give two stacks of cripple. Need a better counter to running away than explosive arrow/bomb tech and gas arrows, it’s wayyyy too easy right now.

Every weapon should have running attacks. These would be used by sprinting and hitting the light attack button. They would do heavy damage even though the input is light (there are uses for heavy attacks out of sprint but not lights) and they would have a longish stun if they miss. Stun should be enough for a runner to gain ground and for a fighter to get a quicker attack in, but not a heavy from something like a greatsword or 2h maul. Sprinting attacks are pretty much what this game’s combat system is missing, alongside stunlock protection and perhaps a parry system, though the parry system would not be as you suggested.

Stunlock protection and armor. This is why heavy armor sucks. Only form of escape in this game is rolling, and heavy armor doesn’t even have a roll so you just get stunlocked by spears and anything with decent range. Heavy armor should have passive super armor. For those unfamiliar with it, it’s immunity to stun until a certain amount of damage or hits are taken. This superarmor would protect against like one or two attacks and regen after maybe 10 seconds. You still take damage from attacks while you have super armor, but you don’t get hit stunned.

Also would like to see some 50/50 mixup combos or something, katana kind of has it but not really. Like if you’re hitting somebody you have one of two options in your combo: a slow, longer range higher damage attack, or a fast short range attacks. So the one in combo either rolls away or waits to see you wind up the stronger attack and then roll. As I said, katana kind of has this but it’s hard to aim the dash attack.

K im burnt out, i had more to say but im going to kms if i type on my phone any more loll

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thnx for the opinions man :wink:

On cripple not needing an overhaul, you then went into mentioning it needs significant buffs, isnt that an overhaul? :laughing: Or you meant, no change in mechanic, just a buff?

Yeah I agree, at times it feels a little useless. My suggestion in terms of realism isnt the best, im simply trying to go by the system already at hand adding only one extra/new variable to be measured, a stun-threshold. It just creates a faster forced out of breath moment which is more potent than crippling really imo.

I notice that you disagree with 25% though :stuck_out_tongue: Cause you mentioned 2 of the 6 things I spoke about :smiley: Or just too tired typing on the phone?

I think a sprinting attack would be nice. Man, javelins should have that end of their combo attack, the jump attack. That would be a great oppenner. This however could ask for new animations on some weapons. I am totally up for such a suggestion and hope they go for it though.

Yeah thats pretty much what I propose with the stun-threshold. It can literally be a measure of how much damage is inflicted/blocked. A smaller percentage can be used of the damage inflicted when blocking (say 50% or something). From there on depending on the armour the amount that is needed to throw you off balance can increase or decrease, indeed making a use to heavy armours.

And the stun-threshold refresh is a figure of speech so we understand the concept, the way it could be done is with just a cooldown number. In which case again I think light armour should be prone to stun sooner but can “refresh” out of it sooner (more agile) where as heavy can be tankier and take longer to get stunned, but being heavier once off balance it could take longer to “refresh” (by longer I dont mean something ridiculous, just a slight increase to balance it out).

Mix up could be nice. Reason I didnt much go into such a suggestion is that it kinda is redundant with this current system. For example, a fighting game has standing and crouching block, the input to how you defend is different each time. Here, blocking is just blocking, no matter what the attack is.

Unless you meant mix up in the sense of slow or fast attacks? So the enemy could be thrown off, thinking you are going to do a slower strong attack, open up for a counter, and yet get surprised with a quick attack instead? That could be interesting yeah. Again, increases how dynamic fights can be :smiley: Might be a bit much vs multiple opponents, but that depends how its used.

What are your thoughts on weapon switch cooldowns and status effects based on attack types? Not a fan of those two suggestions?


Yes, the current system is really nice:


Weapon switch cooldowns would be great, but maybe not necessarily a cooldown. I’d like to get rid of the unequip tech to avoid recovery for sure, but I also wouldn’t like having a cooldown AND unsheathe delay on top of that. Now that I think about it, perhaps a cooldown would be best afterall, but only if they remove unsheathe delay.

Dumbest example of unsheathe delay is the katana, it has the longest unsheathe delay but it’s a weapon literally made to be drawn quickly.

Status effects based on weapon type would be nice, but I’d still like many of them locked in combo. Daggers would lose pvp viability if sword bled on every hit. Not like anything is viable 100% of the time except for spear 2h mace, but if we overhauled the system, then hopefully every weapon or most weapons would become viable with one or two types being slightly weaker but nothing omnipotent like spears right now.

Cripple doesn’t need an overhaul, just significant buffs to the effect. Should last twice as long and be 50% more effective.

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It is. Clearly I am talking about the mechanics, 1, and 2, if it was perfect I wouldn’t be making suggestions xD

The idea they have going for and the combat system really is nice. It simply needs tweaking imo, even more so balancing, etc. One of the concerns to putting a timed delay to weapon switch (among other reasons) was also the spear/explosive combo/spam.

Weapon balancing from there with added status effects also helps bring the weapons down to a norm between each other and be as side grades or for specific characteristics as opposed to “meta” gameplay.

And I am sure there are other suggestions out there too to make it even better.

Tell me about it, generally some attacks with the Katana feel like he is practicing a kata instead of actually fighting. lol. Way too slow if you ask me.
Id be down for a quick unsheathe attack as well, like in other games. To some extent ive been expecting the same of this game but it doesn’t have it, pressing attack straight up goes to punches. Some other games have a nice quick attack when unsheathing. It can be weaker, but it does the job.

Well, the sword has a few slashing swings too, those will be cripple. And the daggers I mentioned could have both to not make them useless again?

Idk about the cripple man. I was trying to be very lenient with my descriptions to it, but if I am being brutally honest I think its one of the most useless things in the game :rofl: Idk, maybe its just me. But it feels just useless to me, or perhaps because I play more PvE and in PvE, well, it is more useless there. Where as in PvP I guess it can be more useful vs all those “keeping my distance” meta gameplays?

Im just afraid it will be one annoying mechanic to deal with after that (if they make it more potent that is). Going slower still will most get annoying, while dodging is still possible. Was thinking that a much faster stamina depletion would be the way to go, limiting the enemy say to 2 dodges or 1 if they were in fight and having a delay before they can do stuff again.

Also thinking making it more potent will be more annoying for PvE as well :confused: idk. Something to look into for sure though I think.

oh, while on the subject of stamina. forgot to mention. i think the time it needs to start refreshing should be smaller. sometimes with added server delay it feels like ages before the crap starts to refresh :smile:

Nah cripple is useless right now in pvp as well. Only really helps at 5 stacks, stacks are hard af to get, and enc second perk, which is included in most pvp builds, near negates it anyways.

Katana definitely should have a sprint attack that is a quick unsheathe, I could actually use it 100% of the time if I could just catch people who survive.

Yea the bomb spam is what had me rethink my opinion on the cooldown. Bomb placing is annoying af, but also necessary right now just because people can run away so easily lol. I’d for sure like this change if weapons were given sprinting attacks as suggested

Took me 20 minutes to read. I hope they take at least if few of your suggestions. Weapon swap delay is already a thing due to the animations, your keyword is dynamic which reflects realism. We don’t have a cool down timer on swapping irl. Food for thought

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True, I agree to this. However if we are talking about real life, it will take much longer to swap weapons and it would be much more tedious thus something hardly done. Even the Spartans or some other Ancient Greek armies which were among the armies that utilised “weapon switching” went to the short sword when the combat called for it (spear no longer efficient) or they were out of javelins (their initial offensive usually before they switched to sword). It was a one off thing.

Samurai Archers had the Katana they would also switch to when the enemy got too close. etc.

Point being, in most cases it was a one off thing when done.

So something has to give if we are going for realism (but also balance).
If not a cooldown timer, then give an animation (a realistic one at that) that puts one weapon in and doesn’t magically vanish up their behind :smile: and then a more realistic weapon unsheathe animation as opposed to, again, magically appearing in their hand as we get what is an albeit cool “I am swinging my sword around” animation but really not realistic either :stuck_out_tongue:

Dynamic combat that relies on changing weapons around is not dynamic combat imo. It is simply trying to make up for the lack of dynamic combat that each weapon has at that point. I mean again, I do this a lot myself, but mostly cause I can. lol.

It is? I dont play much PvP but I assume as much. Stacking it is indeed hard even in PvE.

Although the Katana was a nice addition (I mostly expected just a greater-sword animation) it does need an overhaul/rethink.

No bomb spam, a cripple that damages stamina so they cant run off, and sprinting attacks. I could really be up for that.

Another idea could also be (with some specific weapons) blocking and attacking at the same time. One of the deadliest strategies behind the shield and spear/javelin was that they used the thrust of the spear while being mostly under-cover. This could play into slower more defensive “keep enemy at bay” attacks, maybe use up more stamina too like heavy attacks, and will work with mostly stabbing weapons I assume (javelin and sword). Limiting the combo one has during this too.

One could really go about the whole strategy of weapon combat in many ways to be honest. I think there is a lot they could do to improve the system. However it feels like it should be done all as a whole. If they start to add bits and pieces here and there it can end up having unbalanced gameplay for a long time till everything is overhauled.

On the subject of shields, what they really need to do is make the shields actually block as intended. Maces, axes, and claws have shieldsmash. But in reality, everything has shieldsmash because blocking attacks doesn’t cancel the combo for some reason. All shields do right now is turn health damage into durability damage, with no given advantage.

I’m 90% sure this is how it was before, but if I’m wrong, correct me. No idea what shieldsmash is supposed to do now