"Combat Update"

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In the latest Developer stream that took place on Oct 23rd, it was mentioned by the Lead Designer, Alex, that the focus of the 2.2 update would be on combat, both player and npc. You can find this comment at the 47:20 mark in the video posted on YouTube. As a PVP player, I was both excited and nervous about update 2.2. After reading through the patch notes on testlive, I have to say that I’m pretty underwhelmed and frankly disappointed. From what I can tell, the changes to combat can be summed up as:

  • Stamina management won’t matter as much.

  • All armors but heavy are still obsolete. (Even more so now with the MASSIVE nerf to Yogs)

  • Follower’s dmg to players can be reduced as a setting.

  • Shields may make an appearance in PVP(?). Only for the fact that you can regen stam while blocking.

So here are my thoughts:

Good players will still manage their stamina well with even less of a penalty for a screw up. Meaning shields won’t be used for PVP, which seems to be the real focus of this update. I see next to zero balancing changes. Yog’s should’ve been nerfed over a year ago. However, 0% armor pen? Really? That’s not balancing, that’s straight up destroying. I see NO mention of mounts, which is the number one complaint in the PVP community. NO mention of Sabers, which is the second most complaint I see. The new setting “Thrall Damage to Players” is a great step in the right direction, but what about officials? Why is Funcom leaving the balancing up to private servers?. The majority of populated private servers, while there are some vanilla, are “No Mounts/No Cats” servers.

Thank you so much for the many bug fixes and the good things that are coming with this patch. It’s just very underwhelming as I was looking forward to the big “Combat Update”. I can see that Funcom is hiring a “Senior PVP Designer” for Dune. Why not for Conan Exiles? Do you have one already? Because it sure doesn’t seem like it. Are the rumors true and this game is just no longer a priority at Funcom?

I understand that things can happen in game development to uphend schedules and plans. I just think the PVP community needs to know, is that it?

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You sure?

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That’s pretty much the size of it. Just a couple of thoughts to add -
From my testing on testlive so far, IMO shields are actually less useful than they were before - the passthrough stamina drain means you’re just better off moving around unless fighting a single low-dps enemy. (Plus what little skill element there was to their use - having to time blocking and not blocking in order to regain stamina (not exactly hard most of the time) has been removed - though I’m not sure that matters.)

It’s not just the PVP community in need of answers - as a PVE singleplayer (in theory the least ‘combat-oriented’ player group), these changes make combat feel far less interesting (and far less skill based than before). That said, I don’t deny that this update (even from an outsider’s perspective) seems like a particular slap in the face to PVP, especially given what was implied when it was announced.

There are good things, and bug fixes (plus failed bug fixes, new bugs and the return of older bugs…), but there are also a lot of issues. I really hope Funcom will take a serious look at addressing these issues (and preferably communicate with the player base while doing so).

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Yeah I’m sure. I know a lot of high skill players opt for light, but if you came across a player of your skill level in heavy, odds are you’d lose.

@SirDaveWolf Have you tried the new system on testlive yet? I’d be interested in hearing your perspective on it. I generally like light armour, and am feeling like from what I’m experiencing there’s no real reason for anything but heavy right now, except in a couple of specific situations. Dodge and stamina in heavy armour just feel so easy right now on testlive. But that’s a perspective at my level of skill vs PVE content, so it would be interesting to get an angle of how the changes feel when fighting skillful opponents. (not so much how light armour is - it’s still fine, it’s just that there no longer feels much point to it when I can do all the same things in heavy and get the extra protection - more whether you experience the same greater ease of using heavy than before).

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Join this training server and fight with heavy gear:

  • ip: 51.210.214.118:8545
    Mods order:
  • Pippi
  • Shadows of Skelos - Extended
  • Glass Constructions and more…
  • Just No Rain Only

Record a video and post the outcome.

No not yet.

But you can bring down the weight of heavy armor drastically. So stamina regen won’t be a problem.

The real problem, and thats with heavy armor, is the slow roll. You can never escape the first hit right click spam of a spear with it. You will be in stagger all the time, forcing you to roll more and more. Also 1h swords will be your nightmare, since with animation canceling I can keep a guy in heavy armor perma knocked down (4th heavy hit from the sword).

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That’s what I mean - the weight component of heavy armour is reducible, and with the new (testlive) stamina regen, it does indeed feel like no problem. Perhaps more significantly, the extended invincibility period on the roll makes even that feel ok in heavy armour (at least at my level). But I guess maybe if the roll is still too slow to start then the same tactic still works. Good to know, though I think it would be good to test it if you have time - that doubled invincibility period on the heavy roll, feels very strong coupled with the speed of stamina regen - but if you can keep them rolling, that negates the stamina regen, so it all depends on whether the roll still starts slow enough I guess.

I recorded a video that illustrates the 1h sword animation canceling. I used the arena champion. This was on testlive.

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I appreciate you checking it out - but I think you’ve missed my point - I am familiar with keeping a humanoid off their feet with timed strikes, I am suggesting that you could now perform to the same level in heavy armour, which (for most players) would mean there is no longer any reason to wear anything else.

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Agree to disagree. Anyways, the point of this post is that their “Combat Update” is indeed not a combat update.

The video is there to showcase 1h animation canceling.

I have yet to do PvP fights with the new testlive system with and without heavy armor. Need to ask some friends for that. :slight_smile:

I think we can all agree on that. The patch was a joke. I expected more changes. (Horses for example)

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Yep. 1h sword is one of the best weapons right now due to good heavy attack animation and effects. 1h sword have reach via first heavy and knockdown on last heavy PLUS crippling effect on hit. Imho it’s way better than spear or any other weapons if you go into pvp combat.
There is several ways of animation canceling from what I know:

  1. Good old wield/unwield without any additional stuff attached. Personally I use mouse wheel for it, looks like it doesn’t have any timers on use so simple mouse wheel roll makes it a bit faster.
  2. Use of shield with 1h sword (works with any 1h weapon actually). Usually people use shield for cancel mid heavy combo.
    Start heavy attack animation: 1 heavy–>2nd heavy–> remove shield (it will stop your comobo)—> 1st heavy–> 2nd heavy–> take out shield to restart again or complete your attack animation and knockdown your foe.
  3. Bindings. Same stuff that shield do but way better reach because binding doesn’t change sword animations. So you have your usually 1h sword attack animation and ability to animation cancel at any moment.
  4. Good old animation cancel in middle of last heavy. Works if you want faster start of combat and don’t wanna play full last hit animation (that takes around 1 or so seconds…and you can skip it and apply more damage).
  5. Throwing axe. Just like shield it can be used for animation cancel and just like shield changes your heavy animation, so usually ppl go with 2 heavy hits–> animation cancel.
    But you can use throwing the axe in middle of combat and it is a part of your attack combo so you can skip so hits with low reach via use of axe throw or just finish your combo via 2heavy 2 throws etc.
    6.Torch. Same as bindings but you have additional torch attack animation but imho bindings just way better with wield/unwield animation speed.
  6. Animation cancel via movement. Usually I see it performed via use of spear. Simple 1st heavy–> step–> 1st heavy. Quite effective too. I’ve seen it being perforned with other weapnos but looks like spear is the best weapon due it reach.

Personally I don’t like 3rd heavy of 1h sword so usually I go with 1heavy–> 2nd heavy–> light attack–> last heavy with knockdown. Seems like it’s just faster, also usually I skip first heavy long ■■■ animation via use of 1st light—> heavy attacks if im right in front of my foe.
1h sword outdamages spear almost on any tier level I believe so it’s quite versatile weapon in any situation.

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My pvp group usally had a mix of players using heavy and light.
Heavy armor players were using daggers backflip script attached to their mouse buttons so they could use it at any moment and flip where they actually want. Was a great tool for mobility imo and still is used amongst ppl I know. It doesn’t have any I=frames from what I remember but it’s low stam cost action and can be spammed to get away from bad situation.

Heavy armor was a joke due to Yog’s Touch existence and still not really good choice in “high end pvp” where ppl usually use armor pen oils on best in slot weapons etc. Also 7 winds katana with meme 100% armor pen is still around but all know that katana attack animations suck and can be usable only in 1v1 rare situations.
They still didn’t fix horse and pet issue aka the best legal strat in pvp right now…and from what I see they nerfed shield and “nerfed” light and medium…so most part of playerbase will use heavy.
Like…why? Idk who makes this changes in their team but they need to stop. They shouldn’t have even touched base things like combat and healing and continue with introducing new stuff like maps etc.
Imagine if pvp, crafting and healing update were just a dream…

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All this changes and they still didn’t fix things that they “fixed” in patchnoutes months ago.
For example:
Remember how they removed books and elixirs stats stack.
Well…they did fix books and elixirs stack…but they didn’t fix books and lotus potions stack so any player can get +7 to their stats via use of simple: use stat book–> red lotus powder–> aloe pots–> set antidote to remove debuff.
Bam you have +7 to every stat. Thanks funcom.
But yeah we have weapons with cleansing effect so it’s not that bad and very sitautional thing with high cost…that can be removed in one hit if you have a right tool.
But hey…
Here is our little PogChamp


This little thing gives your berserker rage on use and doesn’t have any animations on it.
The best thing to use in middle of your " hits trade" with other player cuz this littel champ just buffs your to godly levels and can be spammed at any moment.
But hey…Funcom wants ppl die faster right? So horse meta…pots meta…shield nerfs…and armor nerfs. It’s all part of a plan. Enjoy the ride if you like it…leave if you don’t like it at all. There better pvp games out there and better games in general. Heard new AC is okish… Cyberpunk releases in 10 or so days… plus there ton of good games on sale right now.
Anyway…stay safe and have a good time.

Regards

Ex CE player

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Ok, it’s taken me a couple of views, but I think I’m finally starting to understand what you’re showing me. Are you double tapping the 2 slot (throwing axe) to get that animation cancel (rapid draw/sheath) or just single tapping? I’ll definitely need a lot of practice before I could reliably use that, but I can certainly see the benefit.
(To be honest, last night I thought what you meant by animation cancelling was that you were cancelling her animation by keeping her off her feet - I hadn’t even registered the changes to your own animations.)

Thanks for continuing my education in how PVP works (and CE combat in general) :slight_smile: I look forward to seeing your thoughts when you’ve had a chance to test the new system in PVP.

@Chaoruk - seems like a bunch of alternatives I could try, I really appreciate the breakdown :slight_smile:

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Forgot about another one:
7. same weapons in 2 hotbar slots. (usually used for spear 1st heavy spam without movement.)
Wield and Unwield are 2 separate actions that take time. You can abuse your mouse wheel a little to make it shorter but there another way, if you have same weapons on 2 hotbar you can change between them and it will stop your attack combo…basically animation cancel and I heard it’s quite fast too.
So basically…start attack…1st heavy–> change to spear in slot №2–> 1st heavy—> repeat.
But usally I’ve used previous methods and it was enough.

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Ambrosia doesn’t have any animation attached to it right now on live servers.
It had a potion drinking animation before last “hotfixs” (hotfixes breaking more stuff than fixing is Funcom’s trademark this days) so players are able to have something close to old healing without any animations attached+ removal of bleed.
Quite good imo.
I believe @SirDaveWolf reported it but…just like every time… it was ignored by devteam.
Or not…believe I’ve seen someone reporting something like “I can’t craft ambrosia on test live” Seems like they blocked recipe…
They could just…you know…attach healing pot animation to it again…but no…let’s just block it.
Plus you can heal on horse via use of ambrosia too. So it’s quite funny when ppl go “But we can’t heal on horse so it’s balanced…” Yeah…you actually can but you don’t know about it.

That’s also the case on testlive. (spawed it in for testing)

With slow roll heavy still wont be an option for most PVP players but that’s mostly for an private no horse server. On official with these rere horses I guess u need it. And like SirDave said, if u wanna test it out against decent/good PVP players feel free to join that training server. :slight_smile: