Definitely and tag me for literally everything, thank you.
What i find very educational is the oil usage and their timers with oils.
But if you wish i would like to extend this research on oils and crafted weapons.
I do understand that on exile lands Musashi is easy obtainable, but in pvp it’s very difficult to support any build with rng weapons.
Yesterday i was in unnamed city with a blood crystal katana, i didn’t even put any upgrade and it was quite effective(no blacksmith) .
High numbers are critical and i respect this, yet they are not something to rely on in general basis.
I believe that the player community must press a bit for better venom infused weapons.
Not so much to become op, but good enough to be competitive.
If you have the knowledge, all you need is materials and back on business.
Oh absolutely! Generally speaking, if you find a Weapon Oil timer to be unreasonable, slap a Master Weapon Fitting on that so durability is as long as you’d like it to be! I also need to stress that these weapons would only be out during fights. The moment it’s over, put it away so that the timer stops! Something important to consider is that a good rotation of weapons will not only keep any single timer from dying quickly, but it will also mix up your fight style and potentially catch a foe off-guard. Add to that by switching weapons mid roll. It’s clunky, but doable even on a controller. This will not only allow you to save time but also be safer and catch an opponent in a vulnerable state due to the weapon switch animation completely being skipped. This works with most if not all weapon types if your inputs are clean and at the correct time.
I updated the post above to mention the Master Weapon Fittings as a strong alternative.
The bit about crafted weapons is true, and alongside the few crafted weapons I listed above there are certainly others that could join their ranks! I definitely could list more that are craft- specific, but that will take some time to fully consider. I’ll tag you again if I end up posting those additional weapons!
Corruption build and sorcery had been long dead to me until you mentioned it.
Can’t remember the last time I cast any spell with a staff.
That being said, this thread reminds me of why I, along with all the other exiles, abandoned corrupted build in the first place. What’s the actual advantage of being corrupted?
Let’s do some comparison.
A) Standard Fighter build
20str 20agi 20vit
wear something that gives +25% damage and drink an elixir and eat pork before pvp
The final damage is: 100%(base) + 100%(str) + 10%(agi) + 25%(armor) + 30%(food) = 265%
B) Maxed out damage corruption build
20str(20corrupted) 20agi 20grit + Abyssal Armor + food & elixir
You get a final damage of: 100%(base) + 100%(str) + 20%(corrupted str) + 10%(agi) + 50%(armor) + 30%(food) = 310%
The difference?
B/A = 310/265 = 1.17
Your “corrputed destroyer of worlds” build only hit 17% harder than a regular fighter, at the cost of half health and half stamina. It’s not even a glass cannon as you call it. It’s just glass. Survivalability is almost zero. You can’t pve with it, and it’s an instant lose to daggers in pvp.
The tradeoff is simply bad.
I don’t want to criticize you for your love for corruption. On the contrary, I appreciate it that someone like you still prefer aesthetics than utilty in this game. But at this point, you do realize that the idea “Corruption is crafted in a way that screams maximum damage” could be wrong, right? Maybe corruption is just a byproduct of sorcery that can give you a bit of damage in compensation so that when you are casting down meteor rains over enemy base and suddenly a buffed healthy normal enemy warrior spots you and you try to confront him with your chicken arms you don’t stand no chance at all?
IMO, corruption build is not dying, it never lived. It happened to be viable because of the unintentionally OP Rolling Thrust. Now it’s just back to where it should be.
Nice! Constructive feedback here, I like it. I have a couple thoughts on what you say and will try to make a response later.
There is a lot of pointed language here, but your analysis on the topic is fully appreciated. I think that even after this change in Rolling Thrust, the build has been viable. I mean that both in terms of PvE and PvP.
I think that the best way to approach an analysis like this is a breakdown:
Let’s start with what I would consider the most direct point you make here:
First thing, I’ll address the immediate point you’ve made here. 17% extra damage when we’re talking about the full “pot” of damage is huge. We’re not talking about say… a typical strength buff of 15% like you would get from food or elixir buff but instead a full-damage buff as the sum of its parts. For instance, say you were able to get an extra 15% food buff on top of what you have on the non-Corrupt build… well you would need three of those extra 15% buffs to get to the corrupted build’s power. An attack dealing 400 damage would instead do almost 70 damage more at 467.9 damage. The difference looks small perhaps when considering the large number in general, but this is pretty significant. Still, you seem to understand the math, so I’ll move on from that assuming that you do not consider that a worthwhile amount.
As far as your mention of spellcasting goes (or rather the lack of spellcasting), there’s a rare case scenario you would actually want to use one of these. That’s true, however I do think it’s important to mention that they’re an option that will not hinder a corrupted build in the same way that it would a non-corrupted one, and thus one more tool at tour disposal. I have included a list of my favorite spells to take advantage of in an earlier post, but I will absolutely admit that the use case of these spells is few and far between. They are all about utility.
Speaking of Utility
Of course a statement like that could be wrong. What you asked is an incredibly open statement. It’s like saying that “Not every build is made to deal maximum damage.” What do the Corrupted Attributes do in general though? Let’s look at top level Corruption Perks. I will admit here that of these perks, I don’t even bother getting them because I feel powerful enough in my current build.
Side note: because I see the hypocrisy here, I’m willing to accept that some people might be fine with the damage of the fighter build you mentioned before. Bear in mind that there are of course options at play here.
Strength Perk: Desecrate
Chance when dealing damage to cause a blast of corruption to vent from the earth, knocking down and damaging enemies.
Vitality Perk: Tainted Vessel
When you take damage you expel corruption, dealing damage in an area around you or corrupting enemies around you if they can receive corruption
Authority Perk: Demon-Lord
When dealing damage, there is a chance for an uncontrolled demonic entity to appear to attack your foes temporarily.
All of these perks have something in common. They all directly relate to dealing damage or a proc case of damage being dealt.
I think then it is a fair conclusion to come to that Corruption builds are in fact crafted around dealing maximum damage.
Survivability
The mention of low health here really has no place. With both Steel Thewed and the Sigils I mentioned preventing most DOTs taking effect, this build becomes a bit tanky with the addition of using Resurgence effectively. It’s key to understand that Resurgence is at its best with a buold that has low maximum health, and I’m at rock bottom on the build I described. Carefully managing health might bring you to a greater (percentage-wise) healing rate than even Glutton after all.
Now you mentioned daggers, and of course they’re brutal against this build. I won’t even try to dispute that point. It would be ridiculous to do so and I would really be reaching at that level. I will say, though, that a shield and a shortsword can cause rather effective interruptions to these dagger users.
Also,
Surely you haven’t considered the full build’s stability if you say this. I do this frequently. It’s rather easy in most situations. So long as you don’t get caught in a group or a multi-hit attack, this is one of the most fun as well as typically effective PvE builds I have run. Add a Wolfmen sigil and each kill brings back even more of your health (10% per kill) if that’s an issue.
I stand a very good chance, actually. Typically I would not cast a spell anyways, but even if I did and was caught, this is not a difficult escape situation that you’ve described. I will have maximum stamina due to not moving for a second and can kick them a football field away with the new buffed Mule Kick if the situation calls for it. Again, that’s utility built right into the Corruption perks.
Your Conclusion
Let’s think about what you said: “It never lived.”
I’ve been a prevalent force on the server I play on because I carefully thought about my build’s structure. Is it simple to play a Corrupted build? I wouldn’t argue that it is. I will absolutely say it can be incredibly effective, though. Even now, post-update it’s rather good. Rolling Thrust being nerfed has without a shadow of a doubt made the build harder to play effectively, but I am happy to stand by it because I have found the effectiveness even without it. Stamina management has become a real chore, but the more it’s worked at the more you know your limitations. Experience will cause this to become much less of an issue.
My Conclusion
I think that a lot of people feel the way you do about Corrupted builds and I also think you’re all… well… mostly correct. You’re right. It should be noted though that through the complexities of creating a build and playstyle in Corruption you can remain a very successful fighter. It is indeed taking a severe hit, but perhaps not dying like I originally said in the post’s title. Thinking outside the box on how to best execute your tactics in battle really holds strong effect in this build in particular and the inherent JANK of Conan does not make this easy… But it’s definitely possible with perhaps myself as just one example of this.
But to say as you did that “It’s just back to where it should be” when referring to Corruption, I think it’s strange to state that Corruption builds should not be viable. With that mentality it seems like you’d rather just take options out of the game entirely and I do not support that.
Thank you for taking the time to hear me out. I appreciate your thoughts because they make me consider different aspects of my own build; both the strengths and the weaknesses.
Well, if you take Armor and the actual weapon damage into consideration, the difference is really not that big.
Let’s take a look at it.
You have a Great Axe with 100dmg + 15pen
Your enemy has 50% armor. He will have 50% * (1-0.15) = 42.5% damage reduction when you hit him.
The damage dealt in both scenarios (in my original post) will be:
A) 100 * 265% * (100-42.5)% = 152
B) 100 * 310% * (100-42.5)% = 178
The difference is 26 hp
Take another example with Hammers, who have a great deal of armor pen.
You have a Blackheart Hammer with 100dmg + 60pen after applying kit
Your enemy has 50% armor. He will have 50% * (1-0.6) = 20% damage reduction when you hit him.
The damage dealt in both scenarios will be:
A) 100 * 265% * (100-20)% = 212
B) 100 * 310% * (100-20)% = 248
The difference is 36 hp
These are the optimal situations. If you use single-handed weapons like a sword or axe with lesser base damage, or the enemy wears heavy armors, the difference will be even more tragically minute.
And about those perks: Desecrate, Tainted Vessel, Demon-Lord, etc. They all sound fancy and powerful and cryptic and all. But those are just descriptions. FC can write anything to make you feel what they what you to feel. They can write “this weapon grant you the power to challenge GODS!” while give you literally 0 bonus in-game (like so many legendary weapon descriptions). What you really need to do is to look at their performance in-game.
And the truth is - these perks suck.
Desecrate: 5% chance of activation and dealing merely 50 damage? Really?
Tainted Vessel: Like I have the luxury to get hit time after time when my health is cut in half.
Demon-Lord: What kind of lord is that if I can’t control said demon?
So my point is,
- Always do calculations. Numbers don’t lie.
- Don’t listen to what they say. Look at what they do.
I’d also add a third point here, which is: - test it and see how it works
which I have done inadequately in this case but you, my friend, with your thoughts and time put into it, has a voice in it.
You have proven a fully corrupted build is playable. I have no doubt it’s the best corrupted build one could ever think of. But I doubt if it’s near as good as a normal build, cos FC doesn’t seem to want it that way.
I may or may not find time to test it. Until then, I stand with my opinion - corruption build is bad unless FC revamp it completely, not just the stamina issue.
And they actually got the Stamina change in the game today finally haha.
To start, I want to highlight that I do not think Corruption is in a good spot, and I think it needs some love. We are mostly in agreement. The only spot we seem to disagree is that I do think that Corruption is definitely viable if handled properly just not in the way another Fighter Build would be.
Perks
This is pretty much exactly what I said and is the reason I avoid these Perks. They’re not good enough and I’m better off without them in general. I think I should clarify here though that my point was not how much damage they do nor their appeal at this time as they are but instead their intended purpose.
What do these Perks do? The one for STR (Desecrate)? It adds damage and a chance to deal more. That coincides with STR’s typical purpose. The one for VIT (Tainted Vessel)? It.. adds more damage. Okay, a little odd there. For Authority (Demon-Lord)?.. A summon to… deal more damage. Again, whether or not they’re good is not the point. Their intention, even for Attributes not originally fully geared towards damage, is undeniably all about doing damage. These are the only three top level Corruption Perks which is why I think it’s fair to say that Corruption was indeed built around doing damage first and foremost no matter which approach you take to it.
Still, even though I don’t currently use any of the Perks, I could definitely pick my favorite of these three. The times I’ve cut someone in half midair after Desecrate flings them upwards is something of a power fantasy. That 50 damage does scale, so 50 is inaccurate. Adding to that and much like I said before, damage is damage. Let’s say it procs after you hit a target with Daggers for 100 damage and for the sake of argument Desecrate only does 50 damage. That’s a 50% Damage buff to the hit. Furthermore, the ability will usually get you a free follow-up hit (Like Blackheart Blade Special for 500+ damage even to a target in Heavy Armor). The others Perks in their current form are straight garbage especially when compared to their Non-Corrupt top-level counterparts..
This is very true, and I never take the descriptions to heart, only to understand what the desired effect may have been. I’ve tried these Perks out and they’re part of the reason I made the post. Corruption Builds continue to be swept further and further under the rug, and the ignorance by the developers to the shape they’re in is ridiculous when Corruption has an entire system to itself in the game.
Damage Misconception(?)
Let’s talk about the Build in action, since you may have the wrong idea on damage potential. To a Player with Heavy Armor (1300+ in this example) my Blackheart Hammer does 450+ damage This is a Heavy Attack, of course. I’ve done these calculations, given you a low-ball/average Heavy Attack when I mentioned 400 damage in my last post. I’m saying that this is with a 15 STR 15 AGI build, so the power definitely goes even higher than this.
… And yet sometimes the Player needs to know when to stop and apply points elsewhere. I needed a practical heal like Resurgence so rather than max out at 20/20, I threw 10 of those points into VIT because it undoubtedly makes more sense. Anyways, I actually have calculated this all out much the same as you have. I’ve seen the capabilities both on paper and in action and that’s what I’ve brought to this conversation.
State of Corruption
I agree. It seems like Corruption is a lost opportunity left here by the developers just to decay. The less viable it looks, the less people try it, and in return the less complaints that will roll in. This is not a Weapon or piece of Armor that you can just choose to ignore because it’s bad but an entire Attribute system. I can say this: The amount of eyes I’ve had on this post over the course of this Forum post in particular is a bit humbling given the niche of the topic.
But still… The damage the Perks give does not add up to a compelling enough point to cause people to want to bite. You need to play nearly perfectly to make a Build like this work against a good opponent, and while that’s fine, you can’t really say the same about the Fighter Build you described above. Mistakes can be made with that one with less worries in general. There’s a clear difference in viability between the two. It seems clear enough to the point I would never recommend a Corrupted Build to anybody looking for an “OP/good Build” but instead to those looking for a “fun Build.” I suppose I’m past the point of trying to git gud after having my wins and losses and am at a point that is nearly the best I can personally be, only capped by skill limit and the clunkiness of the game at times. When it comes down to it I’m trying to have fun. There’s utility and strengths in bounds within the Build, but actions need to back them up or the whole thing falls apart quickly. Also, in the worst of Corruption Builds like the one somebody else mentioned above, you have next to nothing working in your favor. It’s rough for those new to the system.
I’m not so deaf to put up a front and say that it’s good, but I am here saying I’ve done my best with it and think the Build is almost reasonable and that it seems best in class for its kind (Corruption, not Fighter).
With my experience as well as the overall perception, I think my voice has some leverage here as a player that knows most of not all its strengths and drawbacks. I don’t think that it should be as much of a challenge to craft a decent Corrupted Build. This is even more offensive to Corruption Builds since there’s the additional cost of Souls to get into one of them in the first place. There’s a cost of entry to get into what would in almost all cases be a worse Build. That brings us to the last thing you said:
No long winded response here. I completely agree that a change is necessary. A devastating hit was when they nerfed Steel Thewed and then Hyperarmor. Since then, it has just been made worse each iteration. There needs to be a change to the Perks of Corruption to make them reasonable to use. A rebalance, a rework, and an overall buff must be made in some way so Corruption can be something other than a lost feature in the game.
Well said, my friend.
No one who’s into Sorcery, be it the functionality or the aesthetics, want to see it become another “decoration” like 95% of items currently in game.
Let’s pray to Set that one day, after devs get their hands free of bug-fixings, may take Sorcery into the light once again.
About the calculations, it could be wrong since there are SO many hidden factors under the paper. Since you are the one who went and tested it, I will give you that. I may also test it someday. (TBH I just deleted the game after Chapter 4 because of disappointment. But seeing as how interesting and refreshing your build looks, I kinda regret that decision.)
So… I’ve tested it. Here is the result.
Given this Hammer’s high base damage and armor penetration, this should be the optimal damage output one can perform in-game (or very close).
Number in (brackets) indicates the percentage of the Damage Dealt / Total Damage, which I call “Action Value”.
Conclusions:
- The difference of the deadlist 2-handed Hammer Heavy Attack between the 2 builds is 41. More tragical than I thought…
- Yes, you can easily deal 450+dmg with a Hammer Heavy Attack. In fact, both builds can.
- “Action Value” is a hidden multiplier in the formula of calculating damage. Action Value is determined by different attack animations. In this case with the Hammer, its 1st Light Attack has a value near 100%, while its 1st Heavy Attack has around 182%. In the case with a Great Axe, its 1st Light Attack has an action value of only 60%, while its 1st Heavy Attack has nearly 180%. So it was wrong for me to look at the Total Damage on stats page only.
- It definetely feels much more FUN with a corrupted build. It does not mean being that more powerful tho.
- With survivability severely crippled, one would think it should be reasonable to have a Leech ability as the last Str perk and have at least 100% damage buffs. But instead, we got a lackluster 5% chance vapor emission and little to none damage buff.
Again, I really appreciate your effort trying to keep Corrupted Build alive. It’s the main reason I installed the game back, thinking “finally there’s something new to explore!”. But at the current state it just can’t. But since you play on private servers (I believe?) you can always count on the brilliant modders to save the day.
Huh. Well I can say this, I did do tests and am actually aware of everything you’ve noted here and had different results entirely. Now that doesnt mean you’re wrong. It may mean that some part of my test was faulty. You said it yourself- numbers don’t lie. I wont contest you after you went and did another round of tests.
You said that the build is fun, and that really is the big reason I use it. Being typically successful maybe just makes it feel better, but Ive been playing a long time. It might not be the build I guess? Haha confidence boost there.
I do play on a private server, but it has no combat/balance focused mods.
Anyways I actually appreciate you proving me wrong on those values, because it actually strengthens my overall point here. Corruption builds are in the absolute gutter and need some attention. Give us some love, Funcom!
Just a couple notes: I just noticed that neither of these builds were actuality at max damage capability here like previously compared. I Assume this was good enough for testing still. Anyways that’s possibly part of the discrepancy here. If you were going to use the build you NEED Steel Thewed.
The quick health regeneration really just acts as your “bottomless health pool.” It’s clearly tough to play when some of the best people I PvP with have trouble with trying the build. Still I almost always get the comment “WOW you do so much damage” and that mixed with oddly practical health regen and the blessing of a non-laggy fight makes this build really fun to play. I hope you eventually come back when it has the proper balancing it deserves.
It wasn’t the Max damage build, it’s just a test build with a lot of Encumbrance so I can carry that 50kg Hanuman’s Gada who has a convenient 100dmg for calculation. Steel Thewed is a must that’s for sure. I can’t take one step out of the door without it.
Btw, I never felt it a big issue when spamming hit-n-run with the hammer. While it’s impossible to do a second hit without draining your stamina, it’s also unlikely your enemy would stand still to let you do so in PVP anyway. I only wish FC can buff the damage of that summoned hammer. Give it 120dmg. Then we will be good for a while.
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