Demon lord tweaks

Lore aside, putting a level 20 perk that replaces either well trained or war party with what this is is the issue. If lore dictates Demon Lord is handled this way, then obviously this perk isn’t worth the exchange of the regular authority level 20 perks and something else should have been created.

This complaint of corrupted level 20 perks being substandard over the regular level 20 perks is over 2 years old now so I don’t know what more can be said.

If I had my way, I would exchange demon lord with permanence and the items summoned no longer have a decay timer and will exist as long as the character is online and alive. Death and logging off will drop the binding and then you get out of control demons and whatnot.

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Name them. The one I mentioned is called “Beyond the Black River.” Name the ones where Howard has/describes demons.

You guys, supporters of not fixing anything, just don’t seem to have any arguments other than ignoring the problem and making indefinite references to some “lore”. Well, plus demogoguery, along the lines of “you want demons to be friendly”. Yeah, that’s exactly what I want. I want summoned demons to pick flowers and cuddle kittens.

Not a playable or workable final perk on a super narrow and already complex branch of full corruption build. But let’s do nothing and talk about lore. Preferably without specifics. Yeah…

Really? OK lets Examine Beyond the Black River.

“Perhaps a panther—” began Balthus, without conviction.
Conan shook his head impatiently.
"A man from the Tauran couldn’t mistake the mark of a panther’s claws. No. It’s a forest devil summoned by Zogar Sag to carry out his revenge.

So right here you see that Zogar Sag is summoning things which he then SENDS OUT TO DO HIS BIDDING, not fighting out along side them nor turning into them. Also, Zogar Sag is a Priest of Jhebal Sag so this isn’t exactly a “Demon” mind you.

“Tiberias was an armed man,” grunted Conan. “If Zogar Sag can bring demons to aid him, he can tell them which men to kill and which to let alone. No, I didn’t see it. I only saw the bushes shake as it left the trail. But if you want further proof, look here!”

Again, Zogar Sag is controlling the “demons” he is summoning but not actively getting involved with the fighting nor turning into them.

He remembered what Valannus had said—that Zogar boasted that he could summon wild beasts to do his bidding.

A shuddering gasp swept over the village and men crowded hastily back, jamming one another between the huts. Balthus felt the short hair stir on his scalp. The creature that stood in the gate was like the embodiment of nightmare legend. Its color was of a curious pale quality which made it seem ghostly and unreal in the dim light. But there was nothing unreal about the low-hung savage head, and the great curved fangs that glistened in the firelight. On noiseless padded feet it approached like a phantom out of the past. It was a survival of an older, grimmer age, the ogre of many an ancient legend—a saber-tooth tiger.

Again Balthus recognized the monster from ancient legends. He saw and knew the ancient and evil serpent which swayed there, its wedge-shaped head, huge as that of a horse, as high as a tall man’s head, and its palely gleaming barrel rippling out behind it. A forked tongue darted in and out, and the firelight glittered on bared fangs.
Balthus became incapable of emotion. The horror of his fate paralyzed him. That was the reptile that the ancients called Ghost Snake, the pale, abominable terror that of old glided into huts by night to devour whole families. Like the python it crushed its victim, but unlike other constrictors its fangs bore venom that carried madness and death. It too had long been considered extinct. But Valannus had spoken truly. No white man knew what shapes haunted the great forests beyond Black River.

But this head was smaller, more narrow; it was a leopard which stood there, snarling silently and glaring down the trail. What wind there was was blowing toward the hiding men, concealing their scent. The beast lowered his head and snuffed the trail, then moved forward uncertainly. A chill played down Balthus’ spine. The brute was undoubtedly trailing them.

“He can’t command all the animals. Only such as remember Jhebbal Sag.”

So, from this very story you see that not only did Zogar Sag NOT ever once “turn into a demon”, he never even summoned any demons at all. He simply command animals, those who still remembered Jhebal Sag to carry out his bidding. So by your own “evidence” you are WRONG.

Now, if we look at -The Phoenix on The Sword- you will find this.

“Blind your eyes, mystic serpent,” he chanted in a blood-freezing whisper. “Blind your eyes to the moonlight and open them on darker gulfs! What do you see, oh serpent of Set? Whom do you call from the gulfs of the Night? Whose shadow falls on the waning Light? Call him to me, oh serpent of Set!”

Stroking the scales with a peculiar circular motion of his fingers, a motion which always carried the fingers back to their starting place, his voice sank still lower as he whispered dark names and grisly incantations forgotten the world over save in the grim hinterlands of dark Stygia, where monstrous shapes move in the dusk of the tombs.

There was a movement in the air about him, such a swirl as is made in water when some creature rises to the surface. A nameless, freezing wind blew on him briefly, as if from an opened Door. Thoth felt a presence at his back, but he did not look about. He kept his eyes fixed on the moonlit space of marble, on which a tenuous shadow hovered. As he continued his whispered incantations, this shadow grew in size and clarity, until it stood out distinct and horrific. Its outline was not unlike that of a gigantic baboon, but no such baboon ever walked the earth, not even in Stygia. Still Thoth did not look, but drawing from his girdle a sandal of his master—always carried in the dim hope that he might be able to put it to such use—he cast it behind him.

“Know it well, slave of the Ring!” he exclaimed. “Find him who wore it and destroy him! Look into his eyes and blast his soul, before you tear out his throat! Kill him! Aye,” in a blind burst of passion, “and all with him!”

Etched on the moonlit wall Thoth saw the horror lower its misshapen head and take the scent like some hideous hound. Then the grisly head was thrown back and the thing wheeled and was gone like a wind through the trees. The Stygian flung up his arms in maddened exultation, and his teeth and eyes gleamed in the moonlight.

And here you see Thoth Amon SUMMONING a demon to kill King Conan, and all of those who happen to be with him (the people who were actually attempting to kill him and who had enslaved Thoth-Amon after stealing his Serpent Ring of Set).

In -The God in The Bowl- one again Thoth-Amon sends something from who knows where or when out in a bowl to do his bidding in an attempt to slay Kalanthes a priest of the Iblis.

‘I found a symbol on the bottom of the Bowl!’ chattered Promero. ‘Not an ancient hieroglyphic, but a symbol recently carved! The mark of Thoth-amon, the Stygian sorcerer, Kalanthes’s deadly foe! He found it in some grisly cavern below the haunted pyramids! The gods of old times did not die, as men died—they fell into long sleeps and their worshippers locked them in sarcophagi so that no alien hand might break their slumbers. Thoth- amon sent death to Kalanthes—Kallian’s greed caused him to loose the horror—and it is lurking somewhere near us—even now it may be creeping upon us—’

'The men of the caravan did not know. They only said that the men who gave it to them told them that it was a priceless relic, found among the tombs far beneath the pyramids and sent to Kalanthes “because of the love the sender bore the priest of Ibis”. Kallian Publico believed that it contained the diadem of the giant-kings, of the people who dwelt in that dark land before the ancestors of the Stygians came there. He showed me a design carved on the lid, which he swore was the shape of the diadem which legend tells us the monster-kings wore.

Now, the story does not specifically state that Thoth-Amon summoned the entity in the bowl, but there are no other references to anything like it before or after so one can infer that he may very well have done so. At either rate, it is yet another example of an extremely powerful wizard sending forth a being to do their bidding for them and not actually going out and engaging in physical combat themself.

Now from -The Black Stranger- you have this.

‘I understand!’ he panted. 'He is playing with me, as a cat with a mouse. To have slain me last night in my chamber were too easy, too merciful. So he destroyed the ship in which I might have escaped him, and he slew that wretched Pict and left my chain upon him, so that the savages might believe I had slain him—they have seen that chain upon my neck many a time.

‘But why? What subtle deviltry has he in mind, what devious purpose no human mind can grasp or understand?’

‘Who is this black man?’ asked Belesa, chill fear crawling along her spine.

‘A demon loosed by my greed and lust to plague me throughout eternity!’ he whispered. He spread his long thin fingers on the table before him, and stared at her with hollow, weirdly luminous eyes that seemed to see her not at all, but to look through her and far beyond to some dim doom.

‘In my youth I had an enemy at court,’ he said, as if speaking more to himself than to her. 'A powerful man who stood between me and my ambition. In my lust for wealth and power I sought aid from the people of the black arts—a black magician, who, at my desire, raised up a fiend from the outer gulfs of existence and clothed it in the form of a man. It crushed and slew my enemy; I grew great and wealthy and none could stand before me. But I thought to cheat my fiend of the price a mortal must pay who calls the black folk to do his bidding.

'By his grim arts the magician tricked the soulless waif of darkness and bound him in hell where he howled in vain—I supposed for eternity. But because the sorcerer had given the fiend the form of a man, he could never break the link that bound it to the material world; never completely close the cosmic corridors by which it had gained access to this planet. A year ago in Kordava word came to me that the magician, now an ancient man, had been slain in his castle, with marks of demon fingers on his throat. Then I knew that the black one had escaped from the hell where the magician had bound him, and that he would seek vengeance upon me. One night I saw his demon face leering at me from the shadows in my castle hall—

'It was not his material body, but his spirit sent to plague me—his spirit which could not follow me over the windy waters. Before he could reach Kordava in the flesh, I sailed to put broad seas between me and him. He has his limitations. To follow me across the seas he must remain in his man-like body of flesh. But that flesh is not human flesh. He can be slain, I think, by fire, though the magician, having raised him up, was powerless to slay him—such are the limits set upon the powers of sorcerers.

‘But the black one is too crafty to be trapped or slain. When he hides himself no man can find him. He steals like a shadow through the night, making naught of bolts and bars. He blinds the eyes of guardsmen with sleep. He can raise storms and command the serpents of the deep, and the fiends of the night. I hoped to drown my trail in the blue rolling wastes—but he has tracked me down to claim his grim forfeit.’

So you see, the summoning of demons is.. not exactly safe. Things CAN go wrong. And when they do said demons CAN and WILL hunt you down and murder you.

The great hall was full of drifting wisps of smoke through which he groped, half-blinded. Somewhere a woman was whimpering, little, catchy, hysterical sobs of nerve-shattering horror. He emerged from a whorl of smoke and stopped dead in his tracks, glaring down the hall.

The hall was dim and shadowy with drifting smoke; the silver candelabrum was overturned, the candles extinguished; the only illumination was a lurid glow from the great fireplace and the wall in which it was set, where the flames licked from burning floor to smoking roof-beams. And limned against that lurid glare Conan saw a human form swinging slowly at the end of a rope. The dead face turned toward him as the body swung, and it was distorted beyond recognition. But Conan knew it was Count Valenso, hanged to his own roof-beam.

But there was something else in the hall. Conan saw it through the drifting smoke—a monstrous black figure, outlined against the hell-fire glare. That outline was vaguely human; but the shadow thrown on the burning wall was not human at all.

So by all means, you can continue to argue all you like, but I have sufficiently proven what I have said all along and have also proven your own example to be not only not what you claimed it to be but also to be in favor of what I have been saying (though with the use of summoning animals instead of demons).

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You know, if one writes in BOLD CAPS, it doesn’t make that one look smart. It just shows that they’re an ARROGANT IDIOT.

First of all, only “Beyond the Black River” has a single description of the demon. At the end of the first chapter, Conan himself defines the creature as a “swamp demon”. That said, we don’t know this for sure, as Conan is not an expert. It’s just his conclusion to what he’s just seen. And the context there is that either Zogar Sag summoned it or turned into it himself. There’s no direct answer in the story itself.

Just to understand it, you have to read the stories yourself or have the 900-page book of all published Conan stories on your shelf behind your shoulder. Not dumbly copying links from google in an attempt to win an argument.

As for “Phoenix on the Sword”, none of your quotes have the word “demon” in them. Read what you’re copying next time, please, okay?

Neither “The God in The Bowl” nor “The Black Stranger” were published during Howard’s lifetime and, therefore, cannot be part of the canon by definition. At best, they’re drafts/abandoned versions that could have passed into publication in either that or a heavily altered form. We’ll never know. Otherwise, anything can be considered “lore” and canon, including NSFW fanfics.

Finally, this is all well and good and interesting, but what does it have to do with the broken mechanism of the Demon Lord perk in the game Conan Exiles, which causes players on pvp servers to only summon more mobs to kill with it?

Oh yeah, what’s the lore on magic bracelets? The Exiles lands? Maybe there’s at least descriptions of double ninja jumps in the air in there? No? Oh, what a horror!

I see your point but, across the board, the number of complaints about the perk are outnumbered by the number of people that are not complaining about it. You want friendly demons that behave like summoned pets, less of a challenge, and a deviation from what the developers intended with the perk. You want the developers to see your complaint and then do as you desire. I get it, but unless there is a mod for it, I don’t think it will be happening.

I’m not entirely sure that my desire to have summoned demons tear my enemies apart (rather than me and my servants) can be defined as “friendly demons”. They don’t have to be friendly at all. Let them tear flesh and spill blood. But since my sorceress summoned them for those measly 30 seconds, let her keep control of them for exactly those measly 30 seconds.

The idea that sorcerers temporarily control summoned creatures is not contrary to the lore, or the traditional view of the treacherous nature of demons, or even common sense. The problem would be if these demons were summoned permanently. But no one is talking about that at all.

This game and the various things that have happened with it have prompted me to do what is necessary to make my own game for PlayStation 5. One of the main annoyances is the inept programming, but the buggy updates, and the Bounty Hunting being cyclically put in and taken out is a nuisance for me and the people I play with. I also want more spells. The various changes that have been made over time took some of the fun out of the game. So, rather than hoping for and beseeching changes that suit me as a player, I’ve decided to make my own game. I have the skills and money for it. It won’t cost me all of the millions nor will it take all of the years to get it done. I expect it to be done by the end of next year. Until then, I will continue to enjoy the game and even when my team is done with the one I am making, I will still play Conan Exiles. I won’t be marketing my game nor will I seek to compete in the space. The project is purely for me and the people I play with but it will be available to anyone with a PlayStation console. It’s being made with Unreal Engine 5 and the lore is original.

Not sure why you decided to share this here, but good luck with that. Game development is not an easy process. I know that up to well from personal experience.

I was letting you know that I too have some issues with the game, what the issues are, and how I chose to handle it or deal with it.

LOL! Bender is hilarious.

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:rofl:

Yeah, you obviously have no concept of what Canon is little child. As any Howardian Schollar and they will tell you that with 100% certainty those two stories are without doubt canon. If it was written by Robert E. Howard it is canon. Neither of them were drafts. Neither of them were abandoned version that were heavily altered by people such as L. Sprague DeCamp. They were full length completed stories written by Robert E. Howard himself. They just were not published by Weird Tales during his life time.

I do have the books sitting right above me actually. They contain the unaltered unedited versions of Robert E. Howards writings. No L.Sprag DeCamp alterated BS. But you can also find them easily thanks to project gutenberg. They also have the unaltered and unedited versions of the text online for anyone to read since they are in the public domain (in Australia).
https://gutenberg.net.au/

So cry all you want about copying links from google, but it is literally the text from the original works of Robert E. Howard and you are simply crying like a little child at this point because you have nothing better to cry about. Talk about someone acting like an arrogant idiot some more why don’t you?

You clearly have literally ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about. Not about what works in which are Canon, not about what is in the works themselves. You have been proven wrong, completely. Get over yourself and let it go.

It is a time-honored tradition to argue on the internet, especially about “canon” in one imagined universe or the other.

However, there seems to have been a satisfactory amount of posturing and calling each other immature or unknowledgeable.

Now, fellow forum barbarians, let us discuss the matter itself: Should the perk be changed or maybe replaced with something else?

To give some ideas:

  • Knocking out a human makes him or her follow you in a mesmerized trance for 10 minutes, so that you don’t need bindings. Knocking out another human makes the first one go down again.
  • Your attacks have a chance to make enemies flee your foul presence for 30 seconds.
  • Your attacks have a chance to make enemies cower in fear for 10 seconds.
  • You can have up to three summoned demons as followers.
  • Summoned demons do not loose allegiance while placed on guard duty, only (as normal) when following you.

What ideas do you have? Try to keep it simple, i. e. easy to implement.

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Geez, you’re such a cringe clown. Making conclusions about who is right and who is wrong, writing in caps, accompanied by streams of wordy nonsense and a selection of inappropriate quotes from AI, as well as slices of quotes of people in the hope of bogging down the thread. Full set of forum warrior of 15 years ago. Wake up, Neo, the future is here, and your species are extinct as the dinosaurs.

Howard doesn’t have a coherent bestiary. What’s a demon, and what’s an evil spirit, and what’s an extrasplanar entity isn’t defined and so on and on. This isn’t DnD, where everything’s organized by species and types. And that’s why you can’t even refer to the general idea of “demons” as treacherous entities (an idea that goes back to Abrahamic religions). On the other hand, this gives people adapting Howard’s work today a very wide latitude of interpretations and adaptations.

So, as I wrote from the beginning of the thread, the broken mechanics of the Demon Lord perk have no connection to lore. None at all. And it’s time for you to open a time machine and go back to a time when forums were a thing. You do not belong here.

There are so many ideas that could be there. But the simplest solution is to just disable aggro for demons. For now, at least. Demons have literally “30 seconds of fame,” with a 7% chance of appearing if I’m not mistaken. Let them work that time 100%. And something as simple as disabling the very ability to become aggro to a player has the least chance of breaking something else.

I don’t have to make conclusions, I have provided facts and you have sat there like a spoiled little child with your hands over your ears refusing to listen to anything and instead attempting to hurl insults. And doing so in a rather sophmoric manner as well.

Yes, well we already established that reading comprehension is not your strong suit considering that the one time you did attempt to provide evidence to back up your side of the discussion you in fact failed to comprehend what was bring written in the very story you brought up which not only did not support you side of the discussion but actually supported both @darkpower and myself. So it is not surprising that anything more than 3 words long and written above “See spot run” would be considered “wordy nonsense” to one such as yourself.

Where in the fvck do you get AI from? Bloody hell, from what dark reaches of the outer realms did you pull that nugget of garbage from? Seriously, if that is the best you can do, just stop now and save yourself some more embarrassment.

Yeah, sorry but the only one attempting to “bog down” this tread is your pathetic whinny arse who cannot accept reality. You cannot accept that the world done not revolve around PvP. That the devs do, in fact, base what they do around the lore. That the lore does in fact back up exactly what @darkpower and I have been saying. Only you and your utter ignorance and arrogance and refusal to accept anything other than what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE are what is bogging down this thread.

But since you brought this up I may as well address this as well. You do realize that dinosaurs are not extinct right? You quite literally see them every single day. You eat them all the time (unless you are vegetarian and or vegan). Maniraptoran dinosaurs are part of the clade Theropoda. Within Maniraptroa there are many different clades, one of which is Avialae. Do you know what animals comprise Avialae that are still living to this very day? BIRDS So once again, you show your complete and utter ignorance on yet another subject. Is there anything else you would like me to teach you about?

No, Mr. Defiant. Clearly you do not belong here. So take your closed minded ignorance and please leave because a forum is meant for people to discuss thing, not cry like little children about how they are not getting their way and how only their opinion matter and only their play style matters. You are a selfish self entitled whinny little brat who needs to grow the fvck up and get some education before you ever attempt to talk about ■■■■ you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

Ha ha, well, classic forum warrior from ancient times. Another quote slicing, hoping to drown me in his endless toxically aggressive flooding.

Nah, I didn’t even read your paste this time. Howard has no clear definition of demons, just descriptions of various supernatural beings whose nature is not clear. So, there is not and can not be any connection to the lore by default.

And the lore certainly has nothing to do with the Demon Lord perk in the game Conan Exiles, because of which accidental hits by players or their thralls put demons in an aggro state towards the player. That’s the topic of the thread. Not your toxic flood in a pathetic attempt to solve your complexes.

HAHAHA, classic ignorant troll who has nothing of value to say, has not ground to stand on and so they cannot actually respond to anything what so ever. It’s far to complicated to respond to actual words to lets attempt to hurl insults right? What a pathetic small minded little child you are.

Now, if you want to actually have a discussion are you ever going to attempt to provide any actually evidence to back up anything you have said, at any point in time, ever?

Or are you just going to be a toxic little troll who like to project their toxic behavior onto others in a sad pathetic attempt to deflect their inadequacies?

Three paragraphs. All about me. Not one on the topic of the thread. Expected.

And yet again you have not proved one single piece of evidence to back up your claims. Expected. WHAT A SURPRISE!