Do you think most people really understand the rules?

Whether its against the rules or not, whether the offenders know its against the rules or not… shouldn’t matter, they should simply be banned on that reason alone.

You found a server populated enough for that? This is one of the things I hated about Ark official servers. All of the spam pillars filling the spawn zones, and in Ark the spawn zones are spread out across the map.

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Is this on Officials? PVP, PVE-C, PVE?

If you won’t take 30 seconds to report them, you’re part of the problem.

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Nonsense! About 30% of the people on the server I play on have spammed blocks and walkways all over the place. Even going out to the islands from the mainland. No one reports anything and we all get along just fine. The official PvE server is also doing just fine. All this reporting nonsense IMHO comes from the feder… well, no need to get political I guess. Anyway, if it’s not actually blocking you from content then reporting is optional and good will goes a lot farther then being a sneaky snitch. If it bothers you THAT much perhaps some yoga or some meditation would help?

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While I may not entirely agree with the sentiment, I can see where the argument comes from. I’ve been giving some vague consideration to the idea of maybe checking out the official servers at some point, and I can say for certain that finding a mass of spammed blocks and pointless walkways and walls blocking off chunks of the map would lead to me logging out and not bothering with that server. And finding a couple of servers like that in a row would likely lead to me not bothering at all. Now, in all honesty, someone like me that knows the game well, would likely find a private server or return to singleplayer or whatever - but how many new players come to official servers for their first taste of the game and give up in the face of claim spam everywhere? So while it may not be affecting you directly, it may be affecting you indirectly by keeping the population of your server down (which may or may not be a good thing) - and it may be affecting others. Arguably, it should be up to those actually affected to report an issue, but I can also see how there could be an argument that it is also the responsibility of the regular players on a server to help keep that server ‘clean’.

Edit: I should also say that I entirely agree that good communication between players is by far the best way to resolve any such issues.

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Well, look closer at the image you just liked in that other thread, Or here posted again…

How many spammed pillars and lame walkways do you count? And that’s just one camera angle. But really, there’s no need for me to care. Why would I?

Absolutely brother!

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Liked for the ship :slight_smile: I’ll admit, I didn’t look close at the rest - at first I thought you meant the walkway/stairs in the back left, but then I spotted the pillars. I’ll grant this - that’s a much more tasteful way than sandstone foundations everywhere - and I can understand a player not wanting their view spoiled/someone building up close after they go to the effort of building such nice things. But it would still put me off from wanting to play on a server like that (depending on how widespread it is/what is blocked). It’s certainly fine for you to be ok with it - for any reason (not just because it’s tastefully done) - but I do suspect that it may more negatively impact newcomers to a server - if your server has a healthy, stable population, that’s probably not a problem though.

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It´s fascinating to see that spam is apperently not seen as spam when it pleases the eye. Its like Art, everybody sees something different. For some people a painting is just ugly, for others its like a treasure of gold.

The rules are clear spam is spam. And you would think that people that like to report others will at least do so impartially, but well … I guess not. :innocent: :rofl:

I think most people probably do understand the rules. Just too many of them don’t care. They know fence foundation stacking isn’t intended, but they do it anyway. They know glitches aren’t supposed to be taken advantage of, but they do it anyway. Then, when these people have done all this stuff that affects game performance, they complain that the game is crap. Is that most players? I hope not.

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I understand you… I think… The way I see it it’s like we have been reading in these threads for past week. One player makes a conscious decision to dislike something and become agitated - S/he /decides/ something bothers him or her - and only therefor is actually bothered. From there s/he again “makes a decision” that action must be taken. So s/he either retaliates by breaking the rules him/herself to F with the offending player, reports them, or asks/tells the other player to clean it up. In all of those cases the spread of yet more agitation is one of the results - to varying degrees depending. If they then take the same stance and make the same decisions it becomes a viscous cycle of discontent - always being agitated and upset or plotting petty revenge - instead of just enjoying the game. It’s not like you can’t climb over or go around in almost all cases. So, I’m like, Why?

Why make that decision when the outcome is so clear and undesirable? Just decide for yourself that it doesn’t bother you and nip that cycle of conflict and drama in the bud. Even if it’s something that’s very obtrusive; decide to take it as a game challenge to get over or around and feel blessed with your talented achievement. :slight_smile:

Of course not. You literally can do nothing in this world without bias and partiality. How you sit in your char, the foods you eat, the friends you make, the games you play, work, everything you do, think and feel is an act based on partiality. It’s 100% not possible to do anything in your conscious waking life impartially - even the act of inaction. :smiley:

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Actually - my point was that I only looked at the ship and didn’t notice the spam. That is why I described it after it was pointed out I had missed it as ‘tasteful’ - but you’ll note I also continue to refer to it as ‘spam’. I agree, the rules are clear on the subject - but this part of the conversation had moved to whether it is someone’s duty to report it, or whether it is their choice. I presented a simple argument to why I think those on a server have some responsibility to at least look at it, but I ultimately believe it is down to each individual to decide for themselves whether they accept what is there or don’t, whether they report it, or don’t. (And conversation between players is 100% the way to go first, if at all possible).

I’ve no idea who you think is liking to report people, partially or impartially. @TeleTesselator and @JJDancer both made clear in the examples they used that they have no wish to report the players responsible (or any players). And I play singleplayer, so you can’t be referring to me.

A good argument :slight_smile: And one that can have some relevance to me - as an experienced player, overlooking/overcoming additional player based obstacles is not necessarily a bad thing (though arguably if that was my desire I’d be more likely to go PVE-C or PVP…). I’m not sure it helps the hypothetical newcomers - at least some of whom will just let their experience be soured, chalk it up to ‘bad online community’ and move onto another game. I’d also say, for me, it’s not just threads here (though I can see your point), but rather a number of videos I’ve seen of online play (and not ‘worst of’ type compilations, just stuff people ran into trying to do lets plays on officials). (One series on playstation was particularly horrific - and loaded with anti-climb, but I’ll take your word that’s maybe not so common as I may have got the impression.). My final point is that, as a singleplayer, I’m used to having complete freedom. Part of the idea that interests me about maybe trying officials is, of course, to share the experience a bit more, which naturally means some compromise to those freedoms - I just suspect that too much such compromise may drive someone like me out pretty quick - though the ‘approach it as an extra challenge’ idea does have some appeal :slight_smile:

Subjective reality or subjective morality, the subjective comes for us all in the end :wink:

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The ship is part of the spam, you just didn´t see it what proofs my point. The mainbase is the house in the background, so the ship is just a decoration like the bridge is, which is, even if beautiful, spam.

The fact that people don´t see it as spam for me is proof enough that people only report what they personally don´t approve and what is seen as spam for them or often times for lets say it mildy “tactical reasons” (want the spot for themself and there like)

There are certain aspects in the game that are by Funcoms rules now seen as spam, but fullfill certainly a deeper purpose for the communitys. If you have a mainbuilding in pve, lets say a medium sized castle, then you are pretty safe to build 1 or 2 aditional small wheelbases or something other smallish on the map without triggering an angry report from another player for building to big. But to be honest, what do you do once your finished with your medium sized base? There isn´t really much other content in the game other than building. And that is the reason why people start creating stuff like ships, arenas and brigdes. All the dlc´s are focused around building and having some nice looking gear. So thats it. Funcom gives you nice dlc´s which support peoples wish to get more creative and build nice things and at the same time tells you not to, because the spam rule doesn´t differ between “good and bad looking” spam. And as soon as you even build a ship or a bridge like that on the picture, you are pratically violating the tos.

In pvp ofc you don´t have the luxary of having nice buildings if you wanna keep your belongings, since nice buildings don´t protect you in a raid. But even here, building is the essential part. A base like Funcom has it in mind and in their rules right now, will not hold against daily raids. Thats a fact. And that is the reason why stuff like stacking building pieces or building spam evolved and got pretty much standard on every pvp server there is. Its not the raiding perse what most people try to avoid but the massive destructions you have to deal with on a daily basis. And nobody can be online every day 24/7. It simply a not achivable task, it´s just exhausting.

I don´t see it as anybodys duty to report people that desperatly try to play a game and keep a game alive with a total broken system. And yes I see it as broken because that is what it is. Funcom is barely manageing to fix anything without breaking something else. If not for the beautiful art team the game wouldn´t exist anymore. And even if you love the game and try to defend it, its pretty clearly that this game is 100% bugs heaven. Most people have come to terms with it. The only ones that should be reported in my eyes are the cheaters. Because, they do not belong in any game. But to say, people that are “exploiting” the game should be reported, I don´t agree. Because its a companies duty to fix their stuff if they don´t want people abusing their game. There are enough people reporting and trying to help. And if Funcom is not able, to fix stuff in time then they have to life with the fact, that people will adapt to what is broken and get not fixed. I have played long enough on both sides, pvp and pve that I can say, that abuse is heavy on both of the sides. This is no war pvp against pve in that regards. So why should anyone think that he is more privileged to play on his side of this game then the other side?

What I would like to see is Funcom finally taking responsibility for their game and start fixing stuff, not trying to hide their problems and shuffeling responsibility on the backs of their players. But as we all know, this won´t gonna happen in this life. So the only thing I can do is, take it as it is and try to keep the small remaining playerbase for as long as I can. Because, people that go or get banned do not come back. And I do not see a benefit in that. I rather be annoyed of someone and deal with it, before I have to play alone. I personally do not approve the whole report missions that are going on right now, because it just excelerate the dying process of the servers, without having a positive effect in the long run, since Funcom isn´t able get enough new people into the game. People can be picky if their is a massive amount of people playing. Not if the community looks like your aunts table to thanksgiving.

Except that you can’t say for sure that the ship is not being used as part of the base - I for one have no idea what is or is not inside it. But beyond that, you seem to have missed the point where the rules talk about not being allowed to build things that serve no purpose other than to prevent other players from building. Aesthetic appeal is a purpose in and of itself. If someone tried to fill the bay with ships, that would be a problem because it would be a massive construction that would block other players/lag the server. Someone building aesthetic embellishments on their base is absolutely following the spirit of the rules as they have been made clear. The pillar spam is there for the purpose of stopping other players building, and is therefore illegal. The ship serves a purpose, possibly as part of the base, but aesthetically at the very least.

And I still don’t see why you keep throwing this accusation around. You made it very clear in your first attempt that you considered this to be some evidence of hypocrisy - yet you seem unable to answer the simple question of who you think is hypocritical? Who is it that you believe is tactically reporting? Who is it that you believe reports some base but not others? Again, I remind you that I play singleplayer (not likely to be reporting anybody there) and that I have argued for personal responsibility throughout - the only sense in which I have argued in support of any of this would be that I believe (and have made clear why) that Funcom has every right to enforce the rules as it sees fit.

Except, as I pointed out above - it does differentiate between buildings built for an aesthetic purpose (which is a purpose other than preventing other players from building) and building solely to prevent other players access. It’s almost as if Funcom deliberately left grey areas so that intelligent human judgement could be used on a case by case basis, rather than being locked into fixed definitions of ‘x is allowed’ ‘y is not allowed’.

My suspicion is that Funcom intends this. I have a growing feeling that Funcom’s vision of what PVP should be like differs from the players’ vision on some significant level. It increasingly seems like they want a system of ‘easy to raid’, ‘moderately easy to build’ ‘hard to keep’ - maybe they think this would keep more flow and movement within PVP without resorting to server wipes? (To be clear - as a non-PVPer, this is pure speculation - just seems like maybe what the intent could be.)

Nor has it been suggested. I personally argued that players on a server ought to look at the situation and consider what wider impact it might have (taking into account newcomers etc), but whether they do anything or not is entirely their choice.

There I don’t agree - or more accurately, I don’t see it as any more buggy than any other game I’ve played in the past x years. I’ve played games released by far bigger studios with far worse bugs - and many of those bugs were never patched (or, even better, the studio patched them for the main game, then went on to make a sequel on the same engine and didn’t bother incorporating the patches…). That’s not to say it doesn’t have bugs, though I think Funcom does try to keep improving that. There are unquestionably problems with Funcom’s systems, but until the industry as a whole changes, I don’t see much chance of major improvements in those areas.

Agreed - but with the point that ‘exploiting’ flaws in the game code to do things that are officially stated as against the rules is cheating.

So you’re saying that undermeshing is fine? Because that is what you are actually claiming here - undermeshing is an ‘exploit’ of a flaw in the engine - if people should have to live with the flaws, then surely that means people should have to live with the undermeshing?

Agreed. I think we are all trying to protect the playerbase. But it is hard to tell which has a more damaging impact - the numbers lost from being banned, or the numbers lost from stopping playing because their base got surrounded by spam for the third time and they just can’t take it anymore.

Yeah, from what little I’ve seen of servers on both sides, that’s likely enough true. There is one key difference though, which is that PVE spam has no excuse/justification and someone banned for it is gonna need to come up with a pretty good story to get people onside against Funcom. PVP spam serves more significant purpose, altering the balance of the battlefield itself, but as a result there are a lot more banned PVP players complaining that they did nothing illegal (then later admitting that they did) or that they did nothing worse than what everyone else is doing (which may be true, but still doesn’t excuse rule-breaking).

I choose to play alone. And one of the key reasons (as I discussed with TeleTesselator above) is my perception that there would be foundation spam all over the map, and the servers I’ve seen with New Asagarth or the Mounds fully walled off for miles around. It may not be as bad as I have imagined, but the point remains that not all players are like you or like me - there will be plenty of players who want the sociable experience, and there will be plenty of them that run into these situations and stop playing because of it (plenty of players will try a game for a bit and move on without looking back because one issue bugs them too much to continue playing).

And again I ask who you think is carrying out these missions, or who you imagine is approving of them?

Except that the reason new players do not come into the game may be related to the official servers being such a mess. As I said above, whether that’s ultimately more players than the bans or fewer, I don’t know. But presumably Funcom does, or at least thinks it does - because Funcom’s only possible reason for enforcing the rules and cleaning up the servers is to try to improve the experience for as many players as possible and encourage new players into the game. They may or may not succeed, but I’m willing to bet they have a clearer picture than we do.

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Then you consider the game ‘beaten’ on that server and then move on. You have several options. Go to another ‘official’ and build another medium base, get another 60 and all the recipes and gear (take a week or two at most), and rinse and repeat. You can go to a server with less restrictions and build something spectacular. Or consider the entire game ‘beat’ and move on.

Funcom isn’t going to change the rules on ‘officials’. They’re running over a thousand servers on subpar hardware and software (G-Portal, literally the bottom of the barrel when it comes to server hosts, or damn near it), and lack sufficient manpower to truly do fair judgments.

If you want to blame Funcom for anything, its doing two things: contracting with G-Portal, shouldn’t have done that (but no fix for this now). And having too many servers (can be fixed now, but that means the players will have to draw straws on who loses their stuff).

I can, I snuck inside. :innocent: In the ship was his alcohol production factory. I couldn’t see inside the benches but if that’s a pirate ship I bet it’s rum! :smiley:

There are a buttload of VERY cool bases besides that one, on my current server. Some are very large and been there for years. There’s a few ugly lame ones too and it seems those are the same guy(s) building walkways up hills stretching for over half the map in some cases or paving the riverbeds for some odd reason. Oh well, the good with the bad I guess. I really don’t care that much, no content seems to be blocked so it’s all good IMO.

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:rofl:

Next time someone tells me I’m nitpicking when I say that the official rules don’t mention spam at all, I’ll point them to this.

There are reasons why I try to be precise when discussing these things, and this right here is one of them: the people who complain about “unclear rules” the loudest are often the same people who redefine words to suit their point.

This is why it’s important to realize that the rules don’t talk about spam. What the vast majority of players calls “foundation spam” falls under the following rule segment of the rules:

The only thing that matters are the rules, not your own personal interpretation of what should be called “spam”.

No, you aren’t. You won’t find anything in the rules that prohibits decorative buildings.

At this point in the discussion, everyone understands this except people who don’t want to.

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These are the same people who make a fuss at a public pool that has a sign that says ‘No Running’ and they want to redefine what constitutes running. When they could just make things nicer and smoother for everyone, including themselves, if they just shut up and walked.

At this point, just tell them to shut up and stop getting themselves banned.

Do that people, just don’t get banned. Its easy. Its too easy.
Or get yourselves banned and we’ll point and laugh at you.

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Is this on a Private or Official server? If it’s official, make sure you report. If this is private, then you’re on your own.

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