Don't be a Sucker! (Prosumer)

Conan Exiles General Discussion
21

Nothing you have claimed is untrue (and your extensions of the theory into other aspects where we are all ‘prosumers’ are equally valid - sadly that is just the world as it stands - capitalism isn’t a great system IMO, it’s just the ‘least worst’ system we have so far come up with). Going in ‘with eyes open’ is the only real option left to us (or not engaging at all).

Personally I used testlive this time (and will probably do so again - I will eventually make a thread on this point once I’ve got all my thoughts figured out) - I knew full-well that I am donating my time to test something that otherwise Funcom would have to pay for (or arguably wouldn’t since that would just mean that the live game becomes the test arena - except testlive bugs still make it into live so it happens anyway). I chose to do so because I enjoy the game and don’t mind putting a bit of ‘work’ into it (for free) to try to make the ‘finished product’ better for me and for others. That’s the social contract I chose to engage with. I’m not a big fan of it as a business model (there’s lots of this sort of thing, and the ‘enforced’ use of Steam etc that I don’t like much in the game industry, but for much of it there doesn’t appear to be any alternative other than to not engage at all - at least testlive is a choice, so I’ll call that a positive).

One aspect I do disagree (maybe I’m wrong) - I think it was you that suggested people most use testlive either to be ‘first’ or to hoard information for themselves (might’ve been someone else in the thread, so I may be debating the wrong person on this point) - to me it appears that the youtubers go for early access to bring the latest news and early test results to their subscribers (which has theoretical commercial benefit to themselves as well, of course), but I felt the majority that get involved with testlive do it to test and report. At least, that’s why I did it, and I certainly saw a bunch of reports from other people as well. That doesn’t mean there weren’t others doing it to hoard info as well, but it felt to me like a decent number of people were ‘using it properly’. Which still runs into your main point, of course…

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22

I’m not going to say I disagree with you. I don’t.

But this sentiment is too little too late. I read this thread about a half an hour ago, and didn’t initially reply since I had to troubleshoot something in the house, but it got me thinking about it.

I was going to say this sort of thing started about 15 years ago. And for video games… that’s when it really took off. I mean stress testing a server right before launch could be considered pro-sumerism, but without hiring way more people than you need, and getting hundreds of machines you will only use for one purpose. Its not really feasible. But no… what you said has really took off in the last 15 years.

And its factored into standard operations across the board. Everyone pretty much does this.

But it goes back further than 1980.

There used to be doormen when you entered a business that would open the door for you, and direct you to the department or store you wanted. Now they replaced this with automated doors, or not, and maps.

There used to be elevator operators. Now we operate them ourselves.

And so forth, you all get the idea.

These deprecated positions would pay around $20,000-25,000 a year today per employee. Which would cost the employer over $30k due to taxes, fees, and other regulatory costs and overhead. As you can see it can cause a rising cost quickly that eats into profits and expenses. For something arguably not needed.

But this begs the question, which was asked:

Could they? This is a good question.

Another question posed:

Well this wasn’t a question, but shows we can ask how many consumers are benefiting from ‘prosumering’? Many popular youtubers, streamers, and such are benefiting from testing the content themselves. Which is interesting because some companies (like Nintendo) wouldn’t you benefit from it without their direct blessing.

Point of the reply before any keyboard warriors try to debunk anything. Is to point out there is no way to put this whole situation into a box and say this or that is wrong. I will say this though. I don’t like the situation.

I took a ton of time and effort on my own time to help fix archery 2 years ago. I was not compensated for that. It took the time and effort of two very prominent servers to run that mod that helped fix it. Those server owners were not compensated. These were not small servers. They were large enough servers who were bringing revenue to Funcom in a substantial way. Easily equal to dozens of officials due to the number of players in their communities.

But the situation is that if we don’t do this. The game doesn’t get fixed, and we don’t have something to play. Its kind of got us by the balls on that. Because even if you don’t play on testlive, you’re still helping test anytime you play multiplayer with an open server.

23

I don’t want to go into politics here, so I won’t write a full reply. Instead, I’m just going to point out that this is true, but very much incomplete. There’s more to be said about the jobs that aren’t there anymore, and what was supposed to happen with those profits.

Join the club. I wouldn’t mind the whole early access thing or TestLive or any other “prosumer” work if I could at least see it improve things substantially. Or maybe I’m too demanding, I don’t know.

24

I wonder if that’s how the pyramids were made.

Tithe by prosumption.

25

Yes. Among many other things, I’m a Microsoft Certified Professional, and was an MCSE way back in the day, so yeah, I know how Windows works.

As I said in the post about the gas station: some things you can avoid and some things you can’t. Just know what you are choosing.

26

Well then I guess there was no reason for you to post.

I, on the other hand, almost exclusively encounter people who don’t consider their self-inflicted exploitation. So I thought it’d be a nice public service to offer this perspective for them.

As for you, well you’re clearly super aware and informed, so…thanks?

27

Ditto.

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28

I don’t play on TestLive but I do test what I am interested in getting fixed. For example:

  • Delving is broken. I went to test if it is fixed, I reported it is not.
  • Siptah armors were broken, I went to test and confirm that they are somewhat fixed.
  • I am missing the legendary armor kit, I went to check and it is still the case, so I reported it.
  • I wanted to be prepared for the new update, so went to test new benches and provided some info to the people who were asking since I was logged in anyway.
  • DevKit is released early usually, I have helped not once or twice to play test a new mod build before it goes public when the update hits live.

I am well aware of not being paid for my time testing but I do not consider myself a sucker for wanting to be informed and my favourite game fixed. If you don’t ever want to report a bug, so be it but don’t expect your game to be fixed any time soon. There is a much bigger chance to get a bug fixed after being reported than one that has never been reported. It is even better when it gets fixed before it goes to live.

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29

You aren’t a sucker–at least, as I see it. The point isn’t “you’re a sucker if you participate in testlive”…the point is “you are a sucker if you provide value to Funcom (or any company) that they’d otherwise have to pay someone for (and here’s the important part) without being aware that you are doing it.”

There is a real and really important thing called volunteering. If you give your time away to something that’s important to you, it isn’t just fine, it’s noble. At least in terms of gaming, it’s at least an investment in fun.

It does seem to me that the overwhelming sentiment on these boards towards Funcom is that they often do things badly and cause their customers repeated irritiation. If that’s so, it begs the question (which has many valid answers), why support such a company with free labor?

Your answer is perfectly reasonable, as I see it. Have a great time!

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30

Since we are talking about money here, I have quit not one or two games for becoming heavy p2w and their practices going far beyond something that I can tolerate. I have also quit games because they changed so much that they were no longer the game I fell in love with. If I am so displeased then I would also go and leave a negative review. I wouldn’t recommend the game to my friends either.

However, I am not someone who is going to the forums for months and years afterwards to express how trash the game is and how incompetent the developer is. This is what I consider not worth my time and money.

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31

Well, its good that you can clear people of being “suckers”.

Your condescending attitude is a bit much.

32

I clearly wrote in the first sentence:

“As I see it” means, “that’s my opinion”. That is implicitly subjective, not a statement of objective fact.

Given your errant attack on me, let me respond by saying, if you need any further help with reading comprehension, I can make some recommendations to you.

Have a happy day, person who has to see conflict where none exists. :slight_smile:

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33

Thats the thing, you have a pretty high opinion of the value of your opinion to others. People dont need a lecture about the socio-economic results of their decision to play a video game in its test state or to file bug reports or whatever. The fact you think you have actually told someone something they might not know or even care if they did know is laughable. By that thinking you could just say “dont ever help anyone because your getting exploited”. Get real. You dont like the game and decided to rationalize.

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34

Ok…So…wait…what are you saying? No negativity on you. I’m just not picking up the entire point at the moment.

I mean, yeah, I agree with the stuff you said. p2w is the worst. It’s heartbreaking to lose a great game to bad development direction or other changes. I absolutely dont understand people who quit a game and then spend hours slagging on it in forums for months.

I mean, I understand your points, but I don’t get what your trying to say in context of the post.

I’m sure it’s me. Maybe I need coffee.

35

Well, that’s silly and ignorant.

I would never say “don’t help anyone.” Among other things, I take pride in being a hospice volunteer. For no money I sit with the dying to try to bring them comfort. As I wrote above, there are fine reasons to give your labor away, and even playing games is fine–if it’s fine to you.

I have said the entire time that YOU deiced what is ok for you–just know what you’re doing so you make informed decisions.

And I am not berating or lecturing anyone. This is an open forum with a subject name that indicates that this is about labor and exploitation. If that doesn’t interest you, you don’t have to read it. If it makes you upset, you don’t have to continue to read it. If you disagree, you don’t have to argue.

But understand that I will express my perspectives, regardless of your insults.

Oh, and as hypocrisy goes:

So you can speak for what all people need? Sounds pretty arrogant to me.

Good day, sir.

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36

Im intentionally being arrogant to you.

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37

I said, good day.

38

Not gonna read all replies, maybe someone already pointed it out.

It’s funny how gaming development is right now - developers sell pre-alpha, beta, open-beta access to players, so they can get extra money and at the same time earn free testers for their product.

Ridiculous how it sounds, but that’s kinda why i never buy new games, especially preorders.

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39

I’m a retired 3d artiest.

A few years ago another game company asked for server stress testers over a weekend.
I volunteered and played, it was an FPS.

As I played I acquired a pistol and was testing it out, when someone ran by my character trailing mobs.
I calmly dispatched all of the mobs with head shots, after all I didn’t have agro so it was just point and shoot. The other player ran back up to my character, at this point in the game development, characters only displayed eMail addresses where character names would normally display.

I expected a quick thanks and nothing else, but the other player just ran away.

The next day I received an eMail inviting me into the closed alpha test of the game.

The “player” I saved was a developer.

For the next 6 months I got to play an awesome game for free, by the time the game was released it had changed so much that I no longer cared for it.

Sure I tested a game and sent in a report or two, but I enjoyed it.
I knew what I was doing for that company. But I was enjoying doing it, if it ever became work I wouldn’t have continued.

So in conclusion if I followed OP’s never test policy, I would have missed 6 months of enjoyment. Because the game at release had almost all of the things I liked removed.

Sure the game companies are getting free testers, but we players are getting something too.

And a person enjoying what they’re doing will do it better than someone just doing a job.

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40

Ya, Nintendo is weird…

MH videos on YT from Sony games? No one cared…
Soon as i posted 3ds Mh footage… Copy right strikes. XD