Even as a redeemer user I don’t think that would push it close to competiting with the SPES since you can only get 2 shots in during that time due to GCD and reload shenanigans.
I think it still holds value as group content shotgun (regionals, NYR) as it buffs the whole group. It would be far lower on single target damage (minus 0,3cp per second or 1,5cp per proc every roughly 5 hits) but higher in group damage (since you try to reload DB and Du most of the time it would give 40%ish percent uptime on a 0,5cp damage buff for 5 people (2 seconds) and 4 people (1 second since you lose one second due to reload) which should be roughly 2,8cp per second in optimal case and even if you play a lot more suboptimal it would still do more for a group than the SPES. Pushing that fact a bit more up, making the choice of redeemer more viable due to group content value by buffing the single player damage output for dps build even a tiny bit without changing the numbers is I think a good step to take.
Would you agree with that train of thought? Or do you think I made some logical error (they do happen)?
How did you figure this uptime out?
I’m not quite sure what you did there.
- Group = up to 5 people. Raid = 2 groups = >5 people. The Redeemer’s buff (just like all group buffs in the game) affect only your own group of 5 people. So the Redeemer is equally viable in dungeons and raids. There’s a difference with Glaciate, which is a debuff, thus affecting all the people who hit the target with the debuff, hence in this case, it can be 10 people from a raid, or 40 people in public stuff.
- 2 seconds ? 1 second? A buff of a duration of 3s means 3 procs under this buff as long as people attack during the buff and perform “hits” at most every second (it doesn’t matter if the person hits at the beginning of the buff, or 0.5s later as long as the person hits at the latest 1s after the buff starts).
- Did you check for weapon expertise on the proc?
Anyway, if we disregard weapon expertise for a moment, we’d rather get 0.5x3x4+0.5x2=7CP on the relevant shell reload, which will take ~24s for the SPES to match (so basically you didn’t have to make random assumptions regarding uptimes of the Redeemer buff since at this point, the Redeemer would be better pretty much no matter what). This is however true if we disregard the SPES stacking during downtimes and if we consider that every group member profits off the buff at the maximum potential, which is possible for most of the fights (if you’re not playing with slackers ), but it just has to be pointed out.
Anyway, theoretically, if you consider loading DU shells once every 2 cycles, you can still guarantee reloading DU shells more often than 24s, so the Redeemer is still better for group DPS than the SPES-C221. In fact, you can (and maybe actually should) opt for a rotation of 1 DB and 2 DU rounds.
TLDR : the Redeemer is already a better option than SPES-C221 in group content for shotgun mainhand.
Uptime for the buff is the 3 seconds divided 7 seconds aka the time from one reload to the next assuming you use 1 shell abilities. While comes the 42% something rounded down to 40% for an assumption for calculation. It could be lower or higher depending on a lot of facts but that was/is far to much math and diffrent cases for me.
(Thinks like shellwaster, unlucky reloads with all green/blue…stuff like that)
The buff grants 0,5cp damage for 3 seconds. The only player definitly not profiting from the full 3 seconds based on newbieshoes comment seems to be the redeemer user him/herself due to the reload costing one second so I assumed 4 players getting 3 seconds damage buff and 1 player 2 second. 3 times 4 is 12 plus 2 is 14. 14 seconds means 14 possible procs of 0,5cp or 7cp over the whole 5 man group per reload from the shotgun user. Now take the 40% uptime and multiply it with the procdamage to get the cp per second. 7 times 0,4 is 2,8cp/s. Want can alter the number depending on what they believe to be the realistic expactation. Solo the redeemer on the other hand only gives two procs leading to 1 cp per reload or 0,4cp/s assuming my suggested change.
Currently the values are only half as strong with 1,4 cp/s for the group and 0,2cp/s for solo. Which still makes it nice for group play but given how the gear system is build you have to either hemper your soloplay for the group or take a shotgun that is better solo and worse for group content. I would love seeing the Redeemer at a solo value closer to 0,25-0,3cp/s instead of 0,2cp/s and/or the group value closer to 2cp/s by first changing which shells proc what and than by finetuning the cp value of the effect. Endresult should be making the redeemer an option that is not only viable for groupcontent but that doesn’t punish players to harsh for taking a more groupfocused weapon. It still would be a worse weapon for most players that are more doing stuff solo but would be a go to weapon for when your endgoal is e10 nyr, dungeons or regionals.
Currently we get 3,5cp per reload from redeemer under assumption that everyone uses there attacks perfectly vs 1,8cp from Spes in any sitution and 1cp from redeemer in soloplay. It’s no wonder the Spes meta is so ingrained in people if using the groupoption costs you 0,8cp under realistic best conditions for redeemer and worst for spes (no shellwaster figured in).
P.S.:1 DB 2 DU rotation is not really consistently achieveable given that even 1 DB 1 DU rotation is not stable thanks to the low chance of DU compared to the high chance of DB. You also would I believe lose a little dps but that is I think ignoreable.
P.S.: P.S.: Sry for the wrong rambling. I hope I didn’t deter you from discussing this topic further as I can get quite into heat when talking about shotgun related stuff that includes maths…I feel like the redeemer was made when they believed the blue shell would become a often used dps shell in groupcontent, which I can’t see for the life of me due to it’s unreliable nature and better options for expose with bombardment and better weapons to keep the debuff up (pistol I believe is pretty good)
That’s because all the guides and such talk about the SPES and nobody theorized publicly the Redeemer.
To me this is a good design - you have to make a choice. Hampering the solo play may be chosen over getting yourself better for group content - one could argue that solo play optimization is irrelevant (i’d be one of those), or the other way around might be chosen as well if shotgun secondary is also in mind.
I thought they had the same chances to appear, do you have any evidence proving this is not the case? Assuming you’re right, you also have a passive that increases chance to get DU, as well as the Sov-Tech Demolisher.
I don’t think so considering every 4th rotation or so, you’re dumping the shells a lot faster if you use Full Salvo, it should actually be a noticeable DPS increase. But i don’t have any more maths evidence about that so i won’t bet on it.
Anyway, back to the topic, i don’t think the Redeemer by itself has a bad design, i rather think that the Armor-Piercing shells are just useless, which is another topic. I’ve been stating for a while now that they should replace this shell type by something giving some buff or debuff for a tank (debilitate-style).
Instead of an intense I-can’t-leave-Agartha-or-I’ll-miss-something event like the current Anniversary, I recommend spacing things out a bit so it won’t get so exhausting and burnout-inducing trying to make the most of the event.
I do recognize the generous rewards (IF you grind everything diligently). However I feel that tacking on free keys weekend will only make it even more burnout inducing as free keys can be. Ever do 6 hours of bird regionals? In one sitting?
I recommend a change like so, if a similar event is run:
- boss fight every 2 or 3 hours instead of each hour
- drop a “skeleton key” possible loot item, with which you can use to open any chest any time you run out of keys. This would simulate a “free key” event without the same associated grind and potential burnout. And the long-lasting save-till-you-need event gift would be a lovely reminder of the event that gave it to you.
And now for something, completely different:
Broomstick Mounts for the next Halloween.
I know it’s early, but that would be quite the fun cosmetic.
Well I am very new to SWLs, Like, uhh, a week or so, so far. So far I am Have TONS of fun with SWL, how ever, being since I didn’t play TSW, I am not sure what the mechanics used to be like or how things worked, via that game, But so Far this on is Pretty fun story is great so far the quests are fun and I even brought 5 new plays to SWLS, however I do have a few suggestions.
- The PDU Police shirt, can you move the police sleeve patch up on the Left arm (I think) up like an inch so both patches are even please, and maybe a white and dark blue version of the shirt.
- I would love summer (shortsleeve) versions of the PDU Police shirt, if at all possible, maybe even a white and dark blue version of this one as well.
- a color wheel would be nice, so we could select a color on the wheel and change the garments color.
- Wardrobe window attached to saved loadouts, so we can design outfits for different loadouts.
- a true first person toggle would be nice, like, wheel all the way in and see your characters arms holding the weapon equipped, looking down in first person and seeing part of our avatars body legs and feet. this way when playing in first person you can truly see the creepiness of the mobs and maybe get a jump scare or two. it would be nice if this also applied to sprints, go into first person and see say the front of your motorcycle from the seat, or look down and see your feet on the hover board. (would help with immersion)
- patrol light toggle on the police motorcycle would be nice too, (push a button and the patrol lights come on and flash) (not required but would make the police bike even cooler aside from the cosmetic of rolling a police rp character.) (guilty) =D
- starter zone level increase for level 50s or scale 50s down when there and change the rewards to more then one loot bag. (like in Transylvania) (should add more re-playability for 50s who like the quests in kingsmouth, savage coast, and blue mountain)
- Npc factions and rep gain, like (work for the sheriff enough in kingsmouth enough and be able to purchase and or be given the kingsmouth sheriff outfit, and gain a title (deputy) or the marya in the desert, reward swanky marya outfit and title, things like that but don’t OVER do the rep grinds like other games. (should keep people busy between content releases if anymore is going to be released, giving more time for work on new content)
- More investigations, I love these things, making you think and gather clues super fun =)
Well, this turned into more of a book instead of just a few suggestions, sorry for that =D
Do you work for the police by any chance? >_<
Sorry had to say that. +1 on the reputation idea though I’d like to see something like that, especially faction based.
There is a mod called BooBuilds that lets you save outfits, weapon builds, and attach outfits to weapon builds. It’s very handy and easy to use.
[Cabal] Cabal Bank Suggestion:
So i was thinking that maybe we could expand the cabal bank, not as a default from the get go, but through cabal points which are earned when cabal mates do stuff together.
- Duo Scenario, if done with a cabal mate could give points.
- Elite dungeons and Megas with at least 3 cabal mates in summoning group.
- NYR with at least 5 cabal mates.
- Not sure with lairs as they can be done with 5-10ppl
This would make it possible for actual Cabals, but prevent it from being easy for those only using a cabal for more bank space.
I like the idea of getting a special reward for playing with my lovely cabal mates.
But, it would be unfair to punish free players, with low inventory space.
Not inventory space. This is the cabal bank, and as it is, free players can’t use the “make a cabal for bank space” tactic. One could also add other things into the point system, or some return reward for the cabal members helping with gathering points. Whatever one can come up with.
It’s a bit of a stretch do describe that as “punishing free players” lol.
Cabals definitely need more bank space.
The event in itself doesn’t force a time schedule on you.
Compared to many other games it is fair and pretty chill.
I’ll get the final login-reward even if I am not able to come online daily due to RL, I see the once an hour fight as an option to pass time and there even is a rotation. So even if you miss one, you’ll just have to wait until it comes up again.
Free keys weekend also is a nice addition and a great boost to all my equipment. They will happen in the future, too, so no stress.
And there’s the HK fights, which really gives the player a lot of choices in total.
If you however choose, that you need to run it all, that’s up to you then and that’s how someone will burn themselves out instead of enjoying themselves.
I do know that some won’t get what I am trying to say, but I can live with that. To make the most of an event isn’t to grab everything there is. To me, the event is a fun activity. Personal highlight is the BEEhemoth (can’t believe we don’t have an emoji for that yet).
In short: Don’t see the need for a change in the event, but a change in players and their approach on it.
I know several people that play for free. They use multiple accounts because otherwise they would have to pay aurums to get another character slot. So a cabal is the only way to have a common storage space.
It would be easier to promote cabal recruitment if the personal bank was account wide for example, or if we had something similar to the mail system to withdraw stuff.
Your idea is great because it will encourage active cabals to play together and get rewarded for it
But you don’t have to prevent others to play as they want. If they prefer getting in a “fake” cabal for alts and multi-account toons, and benefit from the actual default space in a cabal bank, it’s fine.
Free players cant deposit or withdraw items from the cabal bank. This is done on purpose by funcom to discourage ppl from using it for trade or account storage. They sell inventory and personal bank space. My suggestion doesnt change, it just goes in line with how it currently is.
This doesnt make common storage free as it is right now. They will be paying for patron instead of a one time Pay for a char slot.
Not if your main account has TSW benefits, and the free accounts are basic mules.
For new accounts, imo it’s better to grab a one month sub, grind with buffed main and mules to buy the second character slot with exchanged aurums.
Then, when sub is over, and if you don’t wish to renew it, you can have someone helping you to withdraw items in the cabal bank.
As it is, the cabal can be substitute with a private in game chat.
Your idea to reward people for playing as a team is great.
Don’t have to take away what is “granted”
Not taking anything away. It just doesn’t add to what you want it to add to =P. By all means make a seperate suggestion for that