I an relative new to AoC. Leveled a lv 80 havoc demonologist, got Cacodemon and a few other things on AA and now i an playing as a necromancer, still play with demonologist, but mostly as a necromancer. A lot of enemies that was relative hard, is now “easy mode”, i feel that necromancers are better on everything.
On CC - AOE fear effect, freeze, frenzy ,etc
On DPS if you count your minions + spell
On survivability. Minions can give health to you when they attack and you can syphon “unlife”
On consistency of damage, if i need to retreat, my minions and damage over time spells still doing damage
The unique think that i really miss is Thunderclap spell but i an not high level at moment. Maybe i will get a similar spell. Mithrelle as a demonologist was really hard, i killed her with almost no life left. As necromancer, i din’t lose 1/4 of my hp bar.
Necro is more versatile… is called on to kite, more dps options (melee, casters, bombs), has better minion kill, aoe silence, can frenzy a pet to assist with tanking, best mana regen in the game with cannibalism, plus don’t forget the scary clown morph, lol. All this, and can surpass all dps in most fights.
Nerco is indeed more versatile, because of the pets, and is surely the best single target dps class, if he can go spellweaving.
Demo however is the best AoE class in the game, and can do pretty well even without spellweaving.
In solo play, both classes can faceroll anything they can possibly find on their path.
Full Havoc isn’t really a relevant spec for anything but pvp sieges. Detonation is basically the best kb in the game.
I wouldn’t say necros are any more versatile than demos. Sure necros can play with pets or without pets but it’s not like the playstyle changes to any real degree (that’s not to say demos are particularly versatile either). Necros have a higher dps ceiling than demos as long as they can sw, and same goes for aoe it’s way higher than demo aoe assuming the necros can sw.
Pet necros is pretty reliant on having a tos in group and the difference with/without is pretty big. Demos don’t need a tos to contribute dps but do for mana if you don’t have silver twighlight buffs.
So yeah, for groups/raids necros are superior most of the time (demos are still strong though), solo, I think demo is better but neither are anything other than a complete easy mode so call it a wash, and pvp probably comes down to a preferred playstyle.
Thunderclap is terrible and you shouldn’t feat that. If you’re high level demo you should have, detonation aoe KB (yes it’s op, just do an incinerate stack and it will KB everything). Fiery torment stun, Posession stun, Wicked Bolt KB, hands of the underworld speed buff/snare and Storm Chains root (use instant casts when you need to kite it’s the same thing as pets dpsing while you kite). Demos have millions of CCs for survival, as well as a pet green heal which is rather noticeable when playing solo.
Now if you’re leveling you won’t have all that (lvl 70 you should) but you’ll get some of it and the class can feel a bit frail until you get detonation at lvl 30 or whatever it is.
In end game set up with everything I mentioned and the waves of flame AA it ends up being way superior to necro for soloing imo (if there’s one thing demo does better it’s instant aoe).
I’m not suggesting to play a demo over a necro, both classes are fine, just that if you think demo is far inferior to necro you’ve missed a lot that the class has to offer.
Well, thunderclap can knock down many foes and and do a substantial damage. I din’t managed to remove half of Heimdall’ health as a demonologist, but as a necromancer, killed him without great problems in few minutes.
About stun, i agree. They are good skills, but honestly, i think the AOE fear effect is better.
You said you’re playing with a full havoc spec and that is your entire problem with the demo. If I was using some havoc only spec I’d think the class was bad too. Those specs haven’t been favorable since 2009.
Demo has instant aoe and dps on demand in a few seconds for necro it takes a while to build up. This for me is the main difference between the two.
Given enough time to apply all dots, and get about 3-4 proccs from spellweave to get critbuff and skulls going necro has a much higher potential for single target dps and can rival demo in aoe fights. If there is only a small window and many targets demo can do tons of damage to all of them almost instantly. This also translates in pvp where demo is the more mobile of the two with fast casts and quickly applied damage and debuffs. Personally I’d say demo is a little bit stronger than necro in pvp and easier to get into.
Well, i respected to fire demonologist after EVERYONE said that fire demo is better and honestly, is better in most situations, except when i need to fight melee guys and ranged guys with croud contorl like Zang Xin Heaver. With havoc spec, i simple run to the lancer, cast thunderclap to knockout the lance trower and the rest of melee guys who follow him and then start to bombard with eletric spells. With fire demonologist, i need to CC Zang Xin Heaver, then try hit both with fires of gehenna and detonation, in order to knockdown everyone and honestly, is easier to run and try fight one each time.
Still not able to kill heimdall as a demonologist.
But honestly, i have a lot of better damaging spells as fire demonologist and even the most basic spell, my Fires of Gehenna deal around 1k damage while my Shockstrike, around 1.2k, but considering that i can cast 30 fires of Gehenna per minute and only 20, i an dealing more DPS as fire demonologist.
Example of a lvl 80 demo spec, they are hybrid spec and all look pretty much like this, with minor variations based on your focus (this is more of a soloing version that will be fine in groups); https://goo.gl/49g1dZ
This spec looks the better spec possible. Combines most good fire skills with most havoc skills. Still, i will play a little with full fire, only to get more used with fire skills. Maxed my demo, reached faction rank 2 with Scarlet Circle and only after this, i have respected… Only i barely do any respec?
Honestly, i think that necromancer have the biggest advantage of the game. Be able to deal damage even when you can’t cast spells. If you need to run, if you are knocked out, or if silenced, your pets still dealing damage and DOT spells still working.
I can’t kill a single elite mob of same level with my demonologist, even after using a recommended build. With necro, elite mobs only take a little more time…
Class balance is not about every class beeing on the same level in every situation as all other 11 classes, it is not about every class mastering every situations equally well.
It is about balancing the situations in which your class shines and in which your class…well, sucks. Comparing solo play there are diffenerent approaches and playstiles every class offers. You can like or dislike the performance of a certain class, or maybe you can play one class extremly well, but fail to understand or play another class.
In your example a solo necro can kill a tough target by kiting and using pets. That is one situation of many, and does not say that necros are superior in all other situations. You can not say that about solo play, and we do not even touch group or raid play or PvP.
In comparison to a demo playing a necro requires targeting enemies, choosing and sending pets, having not the highest AoE. You are able to kite tough enemies, killing them with pets. With a lot of mobs (at your level or slightly higher) you have more problems. Your pets only heal if you have a. choosen the ones who even can heal and b. if they can hit something constantly, you can heal yourself only with casts. As a demo you can pretty much jump into the largest mob groups, fire and forget big AoEs without the need to target anything, and burn everything down. If specced your pet will heal you constantly, and you can even kite and kill one tough enemy, with instant casts.
That are just some differences from the top of my head. When it comes to group play demo and necro both add different things.
You can not judge a class by the very limited point of view you have on it if you have not seen all classes in as many different situations as possible. Actually the class balance and variety in AoC, while keeping them noticeable DIFFERENT, is very good. Every class has a unique set of skills and possible approaches to a problem, in comparison to their archetype buddies.
The problem is. As a demonologist, some enemies can easily kill me in few secs if i wanna try to AOE farm, mainly lv 85 last legion soldiers when you have an archer and melee guy… My necro with siphon life + life leech + lich form + deadly blizzard is IMHO more reliable to survive while AOE grinding
But yes, i agree that necro isn’t better in all situations. I just think that i can deal a little less AOE DPS and have much more survivability.
