As long as they still have a significantly longer reach than other weapons.
That is the spears advantage. Even in war. The spear was the preferred go to weapon because of the reach. Contrary to what most may think, the sword was a fall back weapon. Its always been the spear.
Id propose like I wrote in another thread to change the entire stutter mechanic. I wont go into details again Ive become a broken record at this point. But yeah, that is what ruins the combat imo. And not just for spear, just that the spear can exploit it more than anything else.
Its a mechanic that isnt working right period. No matter the weapon.
I completely and unequivocally agree with everything Kapoteeni has just said. The only thing further I would add is that its not just PvE who is bearing the brunt of these nerfs to the Spear, but Singleplayer too. Both of the modes are suffering as a result of trying to rebalance it for PvP.
NOO. The problem is that spears are the only weapons that work as they should. They are the only weapon u can catch a runner with, and the lack of ranged/gap-closing options for other weapons makes spear seem op. The other weapons are under powered, not the other way around.
Exactly. That’s why I’m so reluctant to nerf it in ways that make it less spear-like, even though I agree that there should be balance in PVP. This is why I strongly advocate making other weapons stronger in other ways.
Even though the spear was a superior weapon from the stone age to the Renaissance, I do agree that the game should be cool and cinematic and stuff, so other weapons should have a competitive spot alongside the spear. Even the crazy two-handed hammer.
It’s just that Conan Exiles is the one game that gets the spear right, that it’d be a shame to lose that.
Preventing Spears users from rolling would still make alot of sens and wouldn’t impair PVE by much (i’m a PVE only player).
But, it doesn’t exclude improving other weapons too.
I think having Spears and other weapons meeting at a middle ground would be the best solution. (that would mean huge improvements for some weapons like the katana)
In real life medieval or even before age each weapon had its counters.
The problem in CE is the counters of a spear don’t work:
In real life the problem of a long spear is you can hit ONLY at distance, because if the target is too close to you, you can’t hit him.
So it’s a weak weapon if the opponent is able to reduce distance before you kill him.
Here no, it works even if the target is in front of you, so reducing the distance it’s a suicide tactics.
Introduce this disadvantage to spear (so if a player is able to reduce distance the wielder have to roll away or be killed) and raise up its damage (seriously, in PvE using the spear in a boss fight it’s like fighting with a stick) and it will be balanced imho.
Yes, what has better range than a spear? hrm……bow and arrow. Necessity is the mother of invention. Adapt and overcome. So glad someone pointed this out
In the very beginning, we were trained with Pugil (sp) Sticks, padded color-coded weapons to simulate a bayonet, and butt end of a rifle. In advanced training we were given blunted Asian spears of some unspellable name to further illustrate this. They were slightly weighted at the butt end. I believe a very nice block/counter-strike would be the “butt stroke,” where you hit cross-body with the non-business end.
In real life medieval or even before age each weapon had its counters.
The problem in CE is the counters of a spear don’t work:
In real life the problem of a long spear is you can hit ONLY at distance, because if the target is too close to you, you can’t hit him.
So it’s a weak weapon if the opponent is able to reduce distance before you kill him.
All a spear user has to do is moving his hands on the spear’s shaft to bring the spear’s head closer to him and voila.
You can basically stab at arm lenght that way without loosing force. (there is no lever effect on stabs).
You don’t even really loose reach by doing it because the motion is very fuild, you can change your reach at will.
The only down side is more risk of hitting something behind you. That might be an actual issue (or make some’s lip very bloody and very painfull).
Source : i practice Medieval combat (stunt, not EMA)
@SirDaveWolf kindly shared a PVP video to help me have a better graps of the subject. And i now agree that removing roll wouldn’t work as i though.
One of the things that bugs me after seing this video, is how central rolling is in PVP. Maybe that’s the issue ? I mean, the spear thing could be just the spear maxing out the ins and outs of an underlying rolling meta ? Exacerbing the inerant issues of the rolling meta ?
What do the PVPers among you guys think about this view ? Let me know !
Keep in mind that rolling only became meta when spear became meta. The old meta was silent legion and thelith’s sorrow. As a pvper, it’s adapt or die. So of course everyone rolls now and wields a spear. If you don’t, you’re dead.
I ask because i didn’t notice a change to spears that would had made them suddenly meta from my PVE bubble. And fixing what made them meta could probably fixe the issue isn’t it ?
I use spear exclusively on PvE. Stunlock also works in PvE and the reach is useful against bosses while my thrall tanks. Only time I wish I had a different weapon is when I’ve been cornered by several enemies. Horizontal attack is more useful in pushing enemies out in those situations.
It happened right around the release of the first dlc. Funcom nerfed Silent Legion armor and increased the base armor pen for spear plus the spear saw a revamp in combat animation. I think the rotation for spear got faster? 2H swords fell out of use along with 1H axe and heavy armor fell out and was replaced by khitan medium armor.
Since the adjustment on weather debuff damage, the meta is moving away from khitan med to dafari light.
As a dagger wielder, I’m at a huge disadvantage vs spear. I have no complaint about that since it’s just logical. My complaint is more with the stamina drain. 2H weapons tend to take more stamina per heavy attack than 1H weapons. Which tends to balance the fact that 2H weapons have a higher base damage than 1H weapons. However this seems less so with the spear as a “2H” weapon than other 2H weapons. Where most other 2H weapon wielders are drained of most stamina after 1full rotation, a spear wielder can simply cancel out the rotation prior to the fourth finisher without too much stam drain and of course, do far more damage per cost of stamina than other 2Hers. Then of course there is the hit box issues, stun or stagger bonuses, increase in armor pen that other weapons lack… over all, the spear is just a far superior weapon than most other weapons, even with the first two heavy attacks getting a slight damage nerf.
I don’t really mind the reach if there was a limit on the thrusting speed (ie. slower recover time between thrusts or more vulnerability during thrusting and recovering) as that speed that is not realistic is what makes the spear more than it should be compared to other weapons at the moment.
