I measure how many players are playing a bit differently.
In later days of TSW, there were good chance to get Random Q, or specific Q to pop without spamming in LFG channel. In SWL good luck to get anything low/mid level Elite pop in decent time.
In later days TSW, there were more peoples fighting in Fusang at weekends mornings (UTC +2) than there are people in SWL Agartha or in SWL /Event channel.
To me, in my gaming times, SWL is pretty dry.
I don’t think they were the objective, In the gaming industry it’s extremely difficult to get people back after they leave (even if you relaunch) especially if it’s many years too late. They clearly said that they aimed at people totally new to the IP, probably at the F2P nomadic crowd that could try the game, and spend a 10-20$ by the time the story is consumed. Hence why the high focus on steam. Sadly they clearly lack the marketing power.
I would agree more with Sawo. Current state of SWL seems to me quite dry. I know it can be somehow twisted by that bloody 10 tiers and very low instance cap, but even then… Agent system and S2 announcement probably helped, but the real question - especially now as SWL is f2p - will people stay in game and spend some money? What SWL can offer them? I am afraid majority will play new story and then leave without spending any money…
And even if S2 would be without any flaw, I am more skeptic than optimist. The problem FC deals with is still the same. There is very limited content in game and really bad retention mechanics. The grind more demotivate you than motivate and they are - not able to deliver enough new content in time to keep people interested. This seems to me crucial. There are so many alternatives and if people would not get regular updates in decent time, most of them will leave, beause there is a very little to do in SWL if you finish the story…
Some comments to this way of measuring:
SWL moved away from being an MMO to being more of a single player game with coop features. Now, this is not only true for marketing, it’s true the way the game is played.
In TSW I ran often daily dungeons and weekly raids to get, and upgrade, gear. I don’t have to here. Sure, I pop my head into a group content now and then, but for the most part the gear I want is on AH and I upgrade it with my free pure distilled anima thingies.
I can now play the game the way I wanted to play TSW for the most part, without having to rely on other people when I don’t want to.
Add to that, that the game is so much easier, the need to group up is diminished.
The assumption many make here is that people mostly ran/run group content because they wanted to, not because they needed to. What is (on of) the first thing people ask for if they are not pleased? Incentives in the form of gear and items for doing content.
So you guys like solo highest possible Elite dungeons? Or do you just upgrade you gear with poop (sorry S-word is too much for this forum) tier distillates? SWL isnt any different on end game than TSW. Its Raid, PvP or highest level dungeon runs.
How many Raids SWL has? How many PvP minigames SWL has? Can you solo Elite 10 Dungeons?
To me, SWL is just a “paperdoll bank posing” (using UO term) social platform where you have two options to advance towards… grind or pay. And for what? One Raid what can be done green gear… or?
You missed the point. “We” don’t do elites. At all. There is no point. We got the story from Story and maybe E1, but where as you needed to do NM to get the best gear in TSW, you don’t in SWL. You just get a radiant/Mk3 off the AH and upgrade it!
You’re locked in this “endgame” mode of thinking, not realising that most don’t play that way. If they don’t have to.
Again, from my (anecdotal) perspective people do group content to gt stuff. If there is no stuff to be gained, or the stuff can be gained from other places, they skip that content.
(PS: The distillates from the rewards bags is not poop, high XP and cost no shards one free every day.)
I am not Sawo :), but I would answer you.
I understand what you are saying, but how many casual players who ignore any “endgame” are willing to pay and for what? Are there mechanics to motivate them to do it? Is there any content to keep these people in game? What can SWL offer them? Why would they stay there longer?
Maybe I am locked in that endgame mode of thinking, but what I see is monetization mostly targeted to “endgamers” not these single player “casuals”. No matter how FC will talk about SWL, when you finish story, you still have MMO grind. And even more painfull than in MMO TSW.
Because while it is true that a handful of whales will spend a lot in caches for end-game, their actual share of the money generation is quite low because they are rare (free to plays tend to make most of their money out of 5-30$ individual player spending). The core of the benefits come from players who will come to try the game, take a month of patron, buy a few inventory slots and a better sprint.
Even if they stay for the end-game they don’t really need to spend additional money especially if they enjoy playing the game because currency will come quite naturally. I don’t even know many end-game players who are ok with spending 30$ for 20 caches when they are able to have that by just playing a bit on a game they enjoy.
Well, you missed my point because my point was that there is no point to play the game, if you dont need to do the content, because content does not need to be done for advancing the content past the story, what is done by Green gear.
SWL is crap. Period. And I hope that no other company get any ideas what Funcom has offered → Lets rip the best content out, and put monetary advance option or else you need to grind like idiot… and lets make everything having daily amount of keys… but you can buy the keys… and “tadaa”, you dont actually need to update gear to play all the offered content.
This is the paradox of having monetary shop for gear updates (Distillates) if there is no need to upgrade gear other that Patron daily Caches.
SWL has been ripped directly from TSW, with all ancient bugs too, so how the hell there were no way to do Season 2 in TSW? TSW had much better player base when it ended, than SWL has now. And by player base I dont mean numeric value, I mean quality value. And by quality I mean players who spend money.
Please answer me at any time, even if my previous reply was not directed at you. I welcome open minded discourse any day 
Well, in TSW people paid for clothing. Remember the clothing bags? They apparently was a huge success, because after the first one they started flooding the game with those things. The RP community are strong in this game, and they need their clothes. Remember the fashion contest? Those were huge. Not everything is about killing things. (I have a hard time understanding this myself, I don’t have the urge to play pretend ingame myself). These are the people who seem to stay the longest. When they are done with story, they stay for the other peoples as where endgamer move on if there are no more endgame.
And they pay for weapons. It’s no hiding that you can pay to get weapons and upgrades for aurum, be it distillate, pip upgraders and chances at getting good weapons. (But what do they need better weapons for if they don’t do endgame? Well, some people just like bigger number and to breeze though story content).
What do you as an endgame player pay for?
I did not realise a lot of these things above myself until after a few years. There are people who play this game totally different than me, both more hardcore and way way more causally. I thought I was casual, I was not.
There are more ways to playing this game than yours. If you don’t get that, I don’t know how we can continue this discussion. You mind is locked into game = PvP and E10. It’s not.
Yes, I understand this, but the problem is how FC monetization calculation works for SWL. I know we can speculate only as we don’t know any bigger numbers. From my point of view the situation you talk about - and I agree it is the most presumable option - requires some well paced tempo of story updates to keep these people coming back or lure new ones again and again. Is FC able to deliver new content regularly? Back in TSW we all remember how they have promised how each month there will be some smaller update, then each two months. But it never worked, because they had no budget or team to be able to deliver this tempo of updates. After the relaunch we heard something very similar again…
Nordavind, that’s a remarkably narrow perspective. People won’t attempt endgame content “if there’s no stuff to be gained”? Come, now. Surely you’re aware that for many people , the “stuff to be gained” by running endgame raids and instances is only incidental - you may want it, but only because it enhances your performance, thus making it slightly easier to complete that same content. The attraction of endgame content in MMOs lies almost entirely in mastering something difficult and tricky, and doing so in a coordinated group. The sense of accomplishment when finally everything works smoothly and everyone does the right thing at just the right time without even thinking about it consciously: it’s pure zen…
Not what I said. Never used the word only. Don’t build straw mans.
My perspective has WIDENED, because before I held that the game itself was enough, but I realised (by reading player feedback) that many play to be rewarded by items.
I know there are people running endgame for joy. And I know there are those running it for accomplishments (I used to too). I know that tinkering and spreadsheets and parsersr are a big deal for some.
It baffles me that you’re calling ME out on being narrow minded when I’m discussion with people who can’t phantom people enjoying the game without getting to E10.
Try again.
If this was even close to true we’d still be playing TSW. Or do you think they went to the trouble of relaunching just to annoy you personally? 
We would be still playing TSW if Funcom did not make the decision to stop issue after May 2016. TSW died because Funcom decided.
Or all the names from my friend list, what whom I loved to play the TSW, are playing SWL with different nick, or they dont play SWL. And my friend list has many names.
Im not millenial, I dont get annoyed.
qftmft
/1515151515
Now you’re being evasive. I know you didn’t use the word “only” - you didn’t need to, your whole post was crystal clear. How more unambiguous can you get than ““We” don’t do elites. At all. There is no point.”?
A view you’re perfectly entitled to hold.
Where does “try again” come in?
Don’t be coy guys, let’s hear your grand conspiracy about why they relaunched a profitable game and why the relaunched version is getting new content despite not having as many paying players as the old version? Let me guess: they got greedy but now that their cash grab failed, they’re only putting season 2 out to save face? Something like that?