What am I supposed to do in this game, really?


#1

No trolling here, but genuinely curious - how are people actually expected to play this game, as its modeled to be by its creators?

Because I find myself (maybe just apathy) playing Secret World Legends Gatcha more than anything else; I log on, dispatch my agents and poke the AH for anything interesting, then I run 1~4 missions to do a daily and see if I get another agent.

Then I log out, because there’s no real point to doing anything more towards a progression system that leads nowhere (and likely encompasses the majority of Funcom’s revenue potential in caches, I sadly note) and is pointless to pursue, with developers placing no emphasis on content that encourages you to interact with other players.

Because, once you break IP200, there’s nothing in the game that really poses a challenge - outside of group content, raids and elite tiers - to the oft-stated target, Story Mode audiences. (Best thing is I can finally abandon scenarios altogether, as my stats no longer matter.)

Am I missing something here, or is SWL Gatcha what it’s all about? I’m just waiting for the next event so I can get more clothes.


#2

I enjoy playing and replaying missions for the characters involved, myself. Couple of Scenarios because I’m one of those freaks that enjoys them. Saving Aurum for cosmetics. Pick up some Lore to discover more about the, well, Lore of the game…
In the End, it’s just a world I like to be in. And despite many opposers, I think that’s the ultimate goal of this game: for it’s players to have fun in a great, immersive world. (While paying some money, of course. Devs like to eat just as much as anyone else.)
Call me Naïve and a Dreamer, but I hope I’m not the only one.


#3

If you have done all content, don’t like rerunning content og challenging yourself in elite modes, then no, it’s not much left for you to do. I mean, you can pick up role play?

Let me as you this, when you finish a singel player game, what do you do with it? Assuming you liked it. Play it again? New character and class? Or do you neve play games again and pick up new ones.

Also inb4 the PvP crowd gets here.


#4

The issue is I believe that not many people got to that point so the return on any investment on high end content is low. You reach far more people if you do stuff with the story or systems like the agent system that give people something early on than to tend to 1000+ip players or even 200-300ip ones.

It’s a sad true I realized and that made me downscale any ambition in requesting change to high end content. I got to the point where I celebrate the small fixes and changes.

This is something that is to big to really start thinking about without having the devs fully on board to show there side of the equation. Cause if an investment possible risks the future of the game as a whole by redirecting resources in ways that have not enough return we just turn into a true TSW 2.0…a game that can’t substain itself and while the devs listen pretty well to stuff I believe they have pretty strict limits in what they can do at the end of the day.


#5

I agree to the OP.

The current form of SWL is more of a single-player-game than an MMORPG.
But it´s neiter fish nor fowl and that´s the main problem.

The PVE Endgame isn´t very fleshed out when it comes to the different grades of difficulties because there seem to be no new mechanics when the difficulty is higher and also known content from the old game is still missing.

When it comes to PVP: just don´t get me started ^^.

The agent system is mostly nothing but a disguised browsergame and 90% of the time i forget about its existence, because it also serves no purpose for me.

The point is, there is just no reason to get my gear to higher numbers of IP because there is no purpose for me in doing so. There is no reason for me to come back to the game besides story and somtimes doing Lairs with the cabal.

At the moment I just treat this game as a Single-Player-Game mostly and thats ok for me. But this hybrid-shape beetween a Singleplayergame and a MMORPG is just very, very strange.


#6

I was thinking a bit earlier that I earnestly wish they’d just made this game a single-player RPG (or co-op… drool) and never bothered with the MMO aspect…

Otherwise, I’ll replay a game to get different endings if I really liked it - hence my Templar and Dragon alts. Maybe pick up a replay again years later for nostalgia.

Otherwise… 1100 IP Lumie just stagnating.


#7

Exactly my thoughts at this point now!


#8

Well, as the game mostly fails to stress, you could roll up an alternate faction character to experience different sides of the story. (Do non-veterans even realize Templars have a vastly more foreboding Egypt to Transylvania transition than teams blue and green?)

And maybe people even would, if it wasn’t $10 even for the first alt. Maybe, idk, most games offer one or two free alt slots because it helps with getting people to spend on outfitting and gearing their alts? Just a thought @Funcom.


#9

Weeks ago, I was ill and had some more time, so I went with my two alts through all zones and story. And I have to say, I nearly forgot how this game is well designed while you are in this stage of gameplay. Of course there is story and quests which we all love, but it’s good to add that design of gearing up works perfectly while you run on low levels. But in the moment you hit the yellow wall, the fun is gone and all you have is endless running of very few dungeons or grinding quests ad nauseam. Totally opposite feeling than you experience earlier. I understand this is a problem of many games, but here it is extremely strong :frowning:

It seems al that “endgame” stuff is here only to throw a bone to former TSW population and few more people not to loose all who enjoy this kind of content.


#10

O.P., your only real mistake is thinking that you’re doing something wrong.
You’re not.
This is a game, and the point of a game is play.
You’ve done the part that’s fun for you.
Now you stick your head in from time to time to keep your characters in order so that you are ready to jump in again when new content drops and things become fun again.
And that is absolutely fine. No need to overthink things.
I do the same myself. I’ve outlasted my entire friend group, so I mostly play alone or in PUGs.
The only reason I’m playing much right now is that I’ve decided to start a new character. I haven’t run a Lumie through the Story since the Old Game, and the Dragon dialogue has me jonesing for a hit of the Geary.
Otherwise I wouldn’t be logging in to do more than collect my Cache Key.


#11

Not flaming either - but concerned for the future of a game we once loved - being stripped of it’s own unique values - for reasons unknown.

This game begs for group content.
Along with its story - it should run hand in hand - in all aspects.

It should not force group content - but aim to at least show that it is available and an option.

Currently i think it lacks this from the get go and can make any new player - even one who has migrated over from TSW - feel the game is empty, dead and non viable.
In fact, it’s often seen in Agartha or in the early starting zones, people asking if the game is working, popular or dead.
It’s the members of the community who hold it together by offering things like #sanctuary - to show them that people are here - we are just spread out all over the zones, in many areas of gameplay and playstyles, in many various stages in many dimensions in many tiers.
It just doesn’t work how they thought it would - and personally i think that kind of approach, can be damaging.

It’s no wonder the overall initial outlook of the game is a one of bleak lonesomeness and can not be a thing that attracts anyone or entices anyone to stay for any length of time.

The community is great - but it can only do so much.
The community that came from TSW is of a loyal standing also - but again - that loyalty will only go so far.

I dont see why certain dungeons are missing from the elite tiers - if they are present in storymode.
I don’t see why group content in many, many forms - can not exist within this new “model” - when it clearly can
I don’t see why PVP isn’t a feature - when it used to be
I don’t see why there is a feedback and suggestions thread if NONE of it is being catered to, listened to, or acted upon.

If what they say is true and they want to focus only on story content - then we have only their previous rate to go on - which is a very, very long and slow process. The current team of SWL, i believe, according to the quarterly report stream, have been moved on to the the new game, which is as yet unnamed - along with Tilty?
So that leaves even less people working on SWL now, than before. What will they be working on and how long will it take?

Even with that team, If that’s how long it took to make any type of story content - then i expect a reduction in the amount of content being produced, that would include any focus or attention on group content or the ability to make sure players who are still in game, have enough enjoyable things to do - the odd weekend here and there of a bonus to empowerment’s is nothing - if you can’t actually get to do anything because your tier level doesn’t have enough players - in your timezone - to get the benefit. Extra agent XP is just giving NPC’s the boost and free key weekends are only viable if again, there are enough people in your timezone to aid you since keys and empowerments (barr talismans, weapons & glyphs from bags) ultimately are part of the group content - along with getting the distills - so the whole thing is very contradictory and counter productive on the regards of retaining what players choose to stay playing SWL.

I don’t know what investors think about SWL - but i know what i see in the community.
there are too many restrictions been placed on SWL that it’s limiting what you can do vs what you could do before.

I do find i spend a lot of time standing in Agartha waiting… and waiting… and waiting…
So i don’t understand either, what it is they expect people to do. When they say - “you’ve done everything” or have “reached the limit” - why would you want people NOT to play? They are more likely to try something else, find that they like it better and never to return. If you want people to stay - you can’t allow any room for that to happen - surely that’s bad business?
I don’t want that

For me personally - this game (as in TSW) bench-marked all others and i compared any other game to TSW - and you know what? - nothing compared. Nothing at all could come close. It had everything i wanted in a game and appealed to me on so many levels.
Escapism - People play games for enjoyment and some to forget their own lives for a moment, some play with their friends, some with their partners, husbands and wives and children - even whole families i have known to play all together!
The only thing that now appeals beyond the story (now its done) is the option to be able to do ANY form of group content, with anyone.
Because i like to play games with other people - not on my own.
This game has people in it and the ability to play with each other - it should be strengthened not weakened.
I would hate for that to be proven otherwise now the model is up and running in this way.

I reiterate - this is also NOT flaming, trolling or hate on the game - it’s a genuine concern for it’s direction.


#12

I don’t mind the single player approach that much. That was an issue with TSW as well. It was a good MMORPG that could have been a truly outstanding Single player - RPG. But I agree that in the efforts to make all content available from start they have removed things that make the game interesting when you have finished the main storyline.

TSW had highlevel areas in all zones with quests that forced you to adapt your build to handle, There were also Tyler Freeborn and the Cairo-train questlines that was well made and fun to replay the entire storyline. In SWL there is nothing of the kind. These are relegated to lowlevel content now and not very fun to replay anymore. Perhaps they should add an Elite mode to key missions, or maybe even Elite-instances of entire zones?

The stuff that do scale,like dungeons and scenarios, doesn’t alter the gameplay with higher difficulty so the progression. It just beef up the opponents so the progression you make feels entirely illusory.


#13

Well, to me it seems that once you’re done with the story, group content is the only thing available (besides scenarios) and so people are waiting in the Agartha because they are waiting for other players.

The problem is that the playerbase is spread on too many different queues (so much that most of them are just empty) and that it may be fun for a few hundred runs but after that, it’s boring as hell. And since the relaunch with less abilities and more barriers preventing decent horizontal progression makes it even worse.


#14

Well, technically, the problem is the playerbase could be spread across too many tiers. In practice, the problem right now is the opposite thanks to the stupid decisions around the agent system.

These days, a new player reaching E1 will almost certainly think E1 is cake walk because they’re going to have at least one all yellows or better geared person farming for boss 6 blue chests. (Yes, tested that on an E1-appropriate alt.)

Eventually reaching E2, afterwards, will mean endless frustration. Mostly with the queue not ever popping. (Same alt.)

Funcom need to figure out a way to address that, rather than stubbornly insist the agent system is working as intended. Because if that effect on E1s was actually intent, the intent was to kill the game a bit more. Can’t have been that stupid, right?

EDIT: Actually, E4 kind of in a similar boat. Frequently see ‘all reds’ farming at what, taking into account agent drops, is presumably the best potential reward to work ratio for them.


#15

Hahaaaa! Nobody expects the… :grin:

To the topic.
I have played all the missions and available dungeons soooo many time, that I have not much energy to do them anymore, they are not fun anymore. Last year or so in TSW, I just logged in for Fusang fun and Elite Raid runs. I hardly ever see old Cabal/Community/PvP friends online in SWL, so there is not much of social aspect anymore either. To me.

Reason why I log in, is that im still obsessed to get my gear to certain level. Not IP but some sort of glance-tankish-pvp-build… and then I dream… about putting my set in good use.


#16

The solution of agent drops will be of course nerfing all drops on low tiers even lower than currently. :slight_smile:


#17

That’s what I’d expect from Funcom, yes. :woman_facepalming:

Though really, it’s not like they seem to be addressing* other issues with/related to the agent system, so maybe they’ll just not fix this, either.

* Things allegedly told to somebody on Discord still don’t count as public information that affects the mass audience’s perception.


#18

One issue with TSW/SWL is a base disconnect between what the game was originally designed as, and the way many players are expecting it to play out.

At launch, TSW was more of an ‘atmosphere/story/puzzle’ game mix. I think is where people saying ‘it makes a better single-player’ are coming from. That sort of mix takes a lot of creative/design effort, for relatively little ‘play through’ output. Once the puzzles and missions are originally solved, 95% of players simply google the fastest/easiest solution and blast through it. Puzzles and tricky mechanics also have little replay value once you’ve solved (or googled) them.

TSW had an innovative, non-levelling, open skill tree(wheel), ‘build your own’ approach. This worked somewhat better in TSW because the horizontal progression allowed you to learn, then mix and match, more build styles and gear combos. A casual player would likely stick with and refine one build and gear set; an end-game player might switch gear/builds 3 times on an evenings 6-dungeon run. In my mind this added a lot to the replayability, but also made TSW hard to grasp for the casual player.

Years of MMOs have taught players that the ‘power grind/level progression’ is the goal to shoot for. They like the atmosphere/setting/story potential of TSW/L, yet also expect the sort of progression system that WoW or LotRO or Neverwinter has with 70-150 levels, gear raiding, massive worlds with dungeons everywhere. They grind their fingers off levelling their gear and skills to well beyond anything the game needs, and then say ‘welp, where’s the challenge?’.

Nothing wrong with that ‘progression is everything’ approach to game playing, it’s the primary reason a lot of us game. That sense of moving forward, gathering momentum, preparing yourself for the ultimate challenge etc. It’s just that sometimes those expectations don’t match the actual design of the game world, leading to frustration.

I play casually, I don’t zoom through content, I split my time across 5 characters, I don’t even grind my gear. (I do, however, tend to play the heck out of events for all rewards, and occasionally do some useful trading on the AH.)

Result: Less than a year into the game, I am at IP 210 ish on all 5 chars, I haven’t gone beyond Scorched Desert, I have mostly low-level purple gear without much glyphs or signets, and I am already at the point where I am ‘overpowered’ for a lot of the content.

What FunCom can do about this, I don’t really know. How do you put in replayable content for massively overpowered characters -who make up maybe 25% of your player base- while also producing new content for more casual players who aren’t running around with >500 IP? Whom, I would guess, make up 75% of the player base.

Yes, they can add in the remaining missing dungeons, maybe even Fusang, but that won’t solve the problem for most people (it didn’t in TSW) and it won’t change the basic nature of the game: it’s more an ‘in your head’ game than a levelling/gear game.


#19

That’s where I’m at, but I’m really not liking the choice. I’d much prefer to be able to REALLY enjoy playing this game again.

Harrumph.


#20

@BombShelley @Mnord

Agents IMO should not appear until E5 level of dungeons, since they already have a chance on EVERY mission and NYR albeit a low chance. So i agree completely that the E1 - E4 training tiers (which i believe they are supposed to be before E5 and upwards) have been compromised.
I truly don’t believe the intent was for E10 people to be farming E1 dungeons as their “Endgame” choice.

In regards to that, would the possibility of them being “re-purposed” in replacement of what used to be the “Blue Signet quests” we did in TSW be more beneficial? If used in the same place - not as a guaranteed drop, but a chance - perhaps slightly higher than current chance, then you instantly bring the re-run value of certain previously enjoyable missions, back to a decent standard. The problem is, they mixed separate mission issues and story content (such as Tyler and Cairo) into the main story arc, i’m not even sure if you can run them separately anymore and i don’t even know if Tyler Freeborn still exists. But is it too little too late now they have been in every mission available from SC onwards?

The fact you can get an Agent on every mission to me is ridiculous, and while some may find that view absurd, given the low rate of them dropping they are in effect asking you this:-
RUN EVERY MISSION GOING (on all maps) for a CHANCE to get an agent that either you or the public at any time deem good enough to use [Stipulation or optional] but you need practically if not ALL of them for Achievements so options are not an option really LMAO - = - Burnout and repulsion is what comes after running that many missions daily, from what i have seen in peoples counts in chat - over 500 missions THEMSELVES with a result of Zero drops from any of them adding into that the questionable way in which Agent missions are supposed to be opening up other missions - and not actually doing so or fixed.

In comparison:
When they nerfed Tokyo Keys, they should have instead altered the possible contents of the crate, meaning you still got your key (your reward for running the mission) but possibly only found shards in the crate? - Which would reduce the number of crap items such as sneakers and pants and w/e coming out of the crates - in turn making them possibly more rarer or desirable on the market, trade or chats also, but they nerfed the actual key itself, which as it stands, now means for your efforts of choosing to run dailies - could end up with nothing at all from the filth encrusted keys just turning into shards in your hands - rendering a trip to the docks - null and void. The result is more or less the same, but for me i can’t help but think:- To the player, having the endpoint cut short is just wrong. The pleasure comes from fighting the mob not the rubbing of muck off a key to find out it isn’t one at all.

There’s a way to do something right and a way to do the same thing wrong.
They could learn from this.

I also agree that the tier system as it stands is far too large, i posted this some time ago when the Forums went live, in the aptly named - but clearly never looked at topic “Feedback & Suggestions” my concerns on the dungeon tier listing being to large to cope with the low population, especially during off peak times (which is where Funcom should be promoting this game more to add more players to the lower population levels.

By current standards - if there are 100 people online during an off peak time, only - lets say at least 50 % want to do dungeons - their IP levels are what lock them to a tier so at any one time you need for the tiers 50 people in queue in the relevant tier by default - the choice isn’t always an option.
It’s barmy - it’s another “i don’t understand why” thing.
Add to that the Agent running E10ers in the E1 fields - making any type of introduction to the route of dungeoneering - effectively useless and a terribly low playerbase in the E2-E4 level and you have a borked system that pushes people away before they even begin the merry dance of E5 popping it’s random rotation of Hell raised and Ankh. To boot, the sudden change in some of the bosses even at E4 - E5 is really shocking. Polaris 2nd last boss for instance or Hell raised last boss. These are like two completely different mobs.

The sooner they stop trying to direct the game down single player - solo mode RPG ONLY - the better. This game was not that, and you can’t really force it to be because the overall feel just doesn’t suit for it to be ONLY solo. No matter how much you coin it as a “Shared world RPG” - it just isn’t that. It’s an MMO and that’s how it should be. Just because a mission or even story CAN be done on it’s own - doesn’t mean to say that it’s ALWAYS done on it’s own - and certainly not a dungeon or raid.
I would actually go so far as to say, however hesitantly - There’s an element of a deliberate attempt to do away with group content altogether by just not utilising it to it’s full potential and allowing it to fall by the wayside, when you look at the whole aspect of group content in this game as a bigger picture - there are vital missing parts, flaws where there should be none, group finder not working, the system not reporting back the correct number of players LFG, the wonky chat system, the fact you are overpowered before leaving Kingsmouth, and many things interfering with the whole aspect of group content - that it does look either lazy or deliberate while anything that can be done on your own is given the 5 star treatment.

I ran the story - with my partner and sometimes others - at least 8 times now (pre agent release) after the intial run through all cutscenes are skipped and mission reports never read.
Any missions i do, be it mains, sides, scenarios - i run with someone else
dungeons and raids are in a group
Lairs and Mega boss summons in a group and FOR the masses (Summoning mostly - by choice, during off peak times - because those guys get a raw deal with nobody doing very much)
Hell i even got The Purge achievement in a group because doing it solo was tedious.
if i have to do something solo - then sanctuary chat is the one thing that makes it any better - which is the communities offering - not funcoms.

To @MadBadger - what you wrote in description of the two games TSW vs SWL is a perfect example of what i also feel, the overall lack of replayability and dynamics/synergy/options and overall playermade creations of their own toons - is a serious issue i feel - and a one that should be a base formula for any game seeking success in this genre. I also played the story arc at a steady pace once, the first time, taking in all of what TSW had to offer. I also agree that i have no idea what Funcom can really do about it either. I confess - i did skip cutscenes and mission reports - since - i have done it all before in TSW and here was me trying to get back to what i was before the migration to SWL only to find - there is nothing for me to get back to, roles had been diminished and lines blurred beyond any recognition (i.e - The Holy Trinity - Tank, DPS, Healer) working in unison rather than one role filling the shoes of all at the same time.

Except i do know that these options would be a great additions AND they already have the assets and means to do so - so it’s cost effective.
The return of all dungeons to the game
The return of choosing our own dungeon and scenario
The return of group scenarios
The return of the NM mob zones in all areas
The return of AP/SP being spent in museums in replace of shards (in the centrepieces mainly)
The return of PVP
The return of missing weapons such as Auxiliaries
The return of player hubs such as London/Seoul/NY having purpose
The return of faction involvement or meaning
The return of The Gatekeeper
The return of missing raids
The return to the meaning and purpose of “The Holy Trinity”
The return of the option to be able to tab target or at least CHOOSE your target
The return of the missing abilities and passives to aid in the function of player creativity
And more…

I find it great the community are constant with ideas and support, both in and out of game
I just hope that they are being listened to.

I do enjoy this game, again - it far surpasses any other - for me at least
And i want to enjoy playing it for as long as possible
Every day all day if i want
I know its lengthy and verbose - but it does show passion
<3